Scripture Word from God
“Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was reckoned unto him;” (Romans 4:23 ERV)
“20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. 21 For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2 Peter 1:20-21 ERV)
“And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly.” (Deuteronomy 27:8 ERV)
“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that through patience and through comfort of the scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4 ERV)
“Write therefore the things which thou sawest, and the things which are, and the things which shall come to pass hereafter;” (Revelation 1:19 ERV)
“The spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was upon my tongue.” (2 Samuel 23:2 ERV)
“But the things which God foreshewed by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled.” (Acts 3:18 ERV)
“And by a prophet the LORD brought Israel up out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved.” (Hosea 12:13 ERV)
“24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s who sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, while [yet] abiding with you. 26 But the Comforter, [even] the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful. 28 Ye heard how I said to you, I go away, and I come unto you. If ye loved me, ye would have rejoiced, because I go unto the Father: for the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe. 30 I will no more speak much with you, for the prince of the world cometh: and he hath nothing in me; 31 but that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.” (John 14:24-31 ERV)
“And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto your fathers,” (Acts 28:25 ERV)
“whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of his holy prophets which have been since the world began.” (Acts 3:21 ERV)
“thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.” (Isaiah 7:7 ERV)
“16 Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: 17 that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17 ERV)
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.” (John 14:10 ERV)
“And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:” (Ephesians 6:17 ERV)
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- Absolute Basics to Reading the Bible
- Finding and Understanding Words and Meanings
- Bible in the first place #1/3
- Missional hermeneutics 1/5
- Missional hermeneutics 5/5
- Comparisson Bible Books in English, Dutch and French
- The Importance Of Scripture
- Incomplete without the mind of God
- Loving the Word
- Condemnation of the World and Illustration of Justification
- The Bible and names in it
- The importance of Reading the Scriptures
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Related articles
- “Did God Only Preserve His Thoughts?” (jpfinn7.wordpress.com)
Are the Scriptures just the “ideas” of God, or are they the very WORDS of God? You decide! - “Bible-believing” and the authority of scripture: “the unfolding of your words gives light” (derekmaul.wordpress.com)
The Bible says a lot of things. That’s one of the reasons I love to read it all the time; because God is constantly teaching me, nurturing me, nourishing me, and equipping me to share the Good News of God’s love in this broken world. - Why We Should Study God’s Word. (greatriversofhope.wordpress.com)
The Bible is an incredible book of history and facts that proves that there is a God that created all things. Most important of all, the Bible is the Word of God. It contains the mind of God and His will for each one of our lives. That is why the Bible was given to us. - 3 Reasons Scripture is not Relative (boldnetwork.wordpress.com)
Scripture is relative to who reads it. it is subjct to interrpretation. At least that is what is being pushed upon the Christian church. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Scripture can speak in different ways to you at different places in your life, but it isn’t some free flowing stream of words that is meant to mean different things to everyone. If you believe in God, then you must believe His word is truth, and truth is not subject to inerpretation. - Our Holy Scriptures (christiansareus.wordpress.com)
The idea is that every single word in the Bible is there because God wanted it there. - Is Scripture reliable? (devinkroner.com)
Some people will admit that the Words god spoke were true when they were written by Moses, the prophets, and even the apostles…but over the centuries many contend they have been changed. Not on purpose, but just as a result of errors being made in copies, etc. Therefore, some people say we can’t rely on the Scripture today as authoritative. - Fast Forward Chapters (jamesfields.wordpress.com)
some of the genealogies and other areas I call Fast Forward Chapters. Since I only use electronic devices for reading
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Consistent reading of Scripture equates to consistent breathing—you have to do it! - Helping Students understand the importance of Reading the Bible (youthmin.org)
If we only read the Bible for what we can “get out of it” we can be distracted from the heart of God’s revelation, which is Himself. We need to come thirsty.
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The most important reason to read the Bible is to understand story of the gospel. The Bible is living and active and is not meant for the bookshelf.
- I am Baptized in the Holy Ghost and with Fire! (hitchhikeamerica.wordpress.com)
There is a powerful balance when you have the power of the Holy Ghost and the knowledge of Scripture engrafted into your Spirit man.
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Holiness and expression of worship coming from inside
“… the beauty of holiness, the expression of worship, is something which breaks through from inside. It is centred in a heart filled with reverent fear, seeking to discover the will of God and to answer it in humble joy; a life trembling at His word and responsive to His command; walking in the way of God’s appointment, whatever it may be, like sheep content with the pasture which the shepherd has selected; a life of holiness unfolding the beauty which glorifies God.
The phrase occurs in Psalm 29:2, one more proof that worship is achieved by giving glory to God: “Give unto the Lord the glory due unto his name: worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness.” If we seek to do the first in the regular exercise of the life of faith, we shall thereby worship the great God in the daily experience of discipleship.
Psalm 115 reveals a great principle—that men become like the God they worship—false or true. The end of true worship is Godlikeness. This principle is at the root of a great New Testament word: “We shall be like him”. But one thing is essential—that the worship is true.”
- Dennis Gillett
The Genius of Discipleship
Worship – Part 2
The Beauty of Holiness
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Related articles
- Worship and worshipping (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
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Listening and Praying to the Father (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Worship Or Playing Church? (womendivas4god.wordpress.com)
Many seem to have the wrong concept of worship. After pondering on Worship, worship is not in the music of particular, it does not matter how old, new, fast or slow it is. God has open my heart and understanding that Christian music is a label we give in flesh. If someone was to play music without any words would you be able to tell if it is Christian music? No. God created music and He loves music. He gives each person their gift be it Rock, contemporary, or R&B. - Worship Him! (apropheticwalk.wordpress.com)
The presence of God was so thick in the sanctuary, that our pastor was unable to preach his message. God just wanted our worship! - Have We Excluded Something Important From Worship? (samuelatgilgal.wordpress.com)
Sound was vital to Old Testament worship. The choral compositions of the Psalms were moving to the Spirit. They were accompanied by the full harmony and rhythm supplied by the harp, the lyre, the flute, and trumpets. The piano and the organ are marvelous instruments, but they cannot produce the sounds that the other instruments provide. Hymns and choral anthems are greatly enhanced when they are supported with greater orchestration. - Preparing for worship (wordsofgrace.wordpress.com)
God’s right to be worshipped (vv. 1-7). Contemplate the reasons we are given that God deserved the worship of Israel, and why we should still worship Him today. What are His attributes that are deserving of worship? - Worship Is About God’s Offering, Not Ours (arendsarticulations.wordpress.com)
worship is not about what we bring to God. If we worship in that mindset, then worship becomes about us, about trying to bring the best offering we can. But don’t get me wrong, I’d say worship is our offering, but it’s not about our offering. It’s about giving thanks to God for His many offerings to us.
Christ having glory
In the previous article Jesus begotten Son of God #20 Before and After we mentioned John 17:5 where Jesus spoke of the glory which he “had” before the foundation of the world.
In the replies to that article we also pointed out to Gods Plan in which the Almighty Creator foresaw many things and gave the world the opportunity to develop partly according human wishes but having to become to an end according the wish of the Creator God the Father.
God, who has been for ever started off with His Word, which embedded His Plan. God’s thinking was brought to the people by the voice of the Holy Spirit (the Power of God) and by His messengers like the angels, prophets and priests.
It was God Himself who carried the Word, the ideas or thoughts as well as the expression of His thinking and wishing, in Himself because every thought every word, every expression, was part of Himself.

All fits marvelously well in the Cretion of God Almighty, in which the human is just a tiny spot of the universe, where we are able to find the glory of Jesus Christ the Saviour of us all.
Being the Creator of everything and having all power He knows everything, but He leaves opportunities to change the ways of what could happen. Though He loves all those who want to follow Him and live according to His Law.
God conceived a plan and later brought it to fruition. In Gods Plan after the First Sin He took care there would come a solution to get rid of the consequences from the Fall, and out of the seed of the woman, the virgin Mary, would come the person, the Emmanuel Jesus Jeshua, who could save the the world, by bruising the tale of evil. this man would become from the tribe of the People of God, Israel in the lineage of Abraham and David. In case we want to belong to that Saviour, the Messiah, we can come seed of Abraham ourselves and be part of those people who shall be able to enter the Kingdom of God, because our names shall be in the Book of Life. (Revelation 17:8)
Therefore we should recognise that person who was foreseen in Gods Plan and was, as those who were written from the beginning, in the Book of Life, already sanctified by God before the first Adam, Cain, Seth, Methusalah, Noach, Sem, Terah, Abraham, Isaac, Samuel, David, Jacob and others where born. Out of Abraham would come a whole generation of which would later come Jesus, out of whom the New Generation would be born.
“I will put animosity between you and the woman, and between your descendant and her descendant; he will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel.”” (Genesis 3:15 CJB)
““the parable is this: the seed is god’s message.” (Luke 8:11 CJB)
“in other words, it is not the physical children who are children of god, but the children the promise refers to who are considered seed.” (Romans 9:8 CJB)
“also, as Yesha`yahu said earlier, “if \@ADONAI-Tzva’ot\@ had not left us a seed, we would have become like S’dom, we would have resembled ‘Amora.” {#Isa 1:9}” (Romans 9:29 CJB)
“now the promises were made to Avraham and to his seed. it doesn’t say, “and to seeds,” as if to many; on the contrary, it speaks of one – “and to your seed” {#Ge 12:7 13:15 17:7 24:7} – and this “one” is the Messiah.” (Galatians 3:16 CJB)
“also, if you belong to the Messiah, you are seed of Avraham and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:29 CJB)
“the glory which you have given to me, I have given to them; so that they may be one, just as we are one—” (John 17:22 CJB)
““father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am; so that they may see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24 CJB)
Jesus foreseen in the Plan of God both him and the disciples “had” a glory in promise and prospect. John writing his gospel in Jewish fashion speaks of a pre-existing Purpose, not a pre-existing second Person.
Jesus known before by the Creator as we are already known by Him, did as such exist in the Plan and in the Spirit of God before Abraham or David were born. God also knew of what Jesus would be capable of doing, and trusted that this human could bring the Promises made to the many people in previous ages to a good end.
As we are known by God since the foundation of the earth and our names are already written in the Book of the Last Judgement, we are mentioned in it with the deeds we shall commit as Jesus is also written in it with the works he did. But Jesus his works were special and received special attention from the Creator who also helped Jesus Christ to do all those miracles as sign that God was with him.
As such, knowing the will of Jesus to give his body for all sinners, God gave him glory from the beginning of times. Therefore that glory was already with God before Abraham was born, and Jesus could say “he was before Abraham” and “he had glory”. Though when he says he “had” that does not mean at the time of his saying his glory by God would have been finished. Other-while he would have said “the glory I did have”.
Probably the glory of God for Jesus can be found as well in that Book of life, which was only ‘written’, as it were, subsequent to the fall. From the fall, individuals have either been in it, or not. Prior to the fall, there was no need for such a record – there were only 2 individuals, and neither had sinned, but the many children of Adam and Eve which were going to fill the Paradise of God would already be in Gods head.
The Lamb of God foreseen from the beginning and spoken of in the Garden of Eden ” was not actually slain much before 33 CE. But his glory was praised by all the holy prophets who, through the Holy Spirit, preached of the coming of Messiah “in the flesh”. Jesus his coming “in the flesh” was the actual beginning of the work for which “the Lamb” indeed was slain.
As such God could know about the man from Nazareth who was going to go righteously in the footsteps of the ‘given directions by God’ to the people of Israel. As such He could already love Jesus before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)
Jesus in John 17:5 speaks of the glory he ( “I” ) had with the Father before the world began.
The answer is in (#Joh17:4): “I have brought you GLORY on earth BY COMPLETING the work you gave me to do.”
“4 I have esteemed You on the earth, having accomplished the work You have given Me that I should do. 5 And now, esteem Me with Yourself, Father, with the esteem which I had with You before the world was. 6 I have revealed Your Name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have guarded Your Word. {(#Ps 138:2)}. 7 Now they have come to know that all You gave to Me, is from You. 8 Because the Words which You gave to Me, I have given to them. And they have received them, and have truly known that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I have been esteemed in them.” (John 17:4-10 The Scriptures 1998+)
Only by beginning his active live Jesus could bring Gods vision to the people. For God the time has come only at that moment that He can show to His people who the Blessed Anointed is who can save the world. It is also by the signs God gives to the world that we can get to know that that man Jesus, Jeshua, child of Joseph and Maria (Mary/Miriam) from Nazareth is the promised Messiah, where the world had to wait for such a long time. Know the great day dawned that can show the world who has His glory.
The first time Jesus receives glory is at his baptism where God declares this ‘son of man‘ to be His only and unique beloved son. As touching the election, Jesus Christ and his followers shall be the one loved for the Fathers’ sakes and be able to get eternal life.
““for god so loved the world that he gave his only and unique son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed.” (John 3:16 CJB)
“when you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the son of man comes.” (Matthew 10:23 CJB)
“and a voice from heaven said, “this is my son, whom I love; I am well pleased with him.”” (Matthew 3:17 CJB)
The moment Jesus begins his public life God can give him the glory which he would have had already in the thoughts of God, who knew this person could be the best one to fulfil the task foreseen at the fall, to make an end to death.
For the world it was important that God showed the world who the Saviour was, because other while the people would find it to difficult to recognise the promised Saviour or Messiah. In order for the people to know that Jesus is the man who is given to the people to do the task predicted in the earlier writings God gives His beloved son attributes which shall enable him to get people around him, to listen and to see the works God does by the hands of his son. Jesus also asks God now (at the time when he was living and speaking) to glorify him because he made his Father’s name known unto the men. The people Jesus is able to speak to in parables and with the clear words already brought by the prophets from earlier times, were not only Jews but could enhance people out of the world which were already belonging to God from the beginning of the world and written in the Book of Life as those who made the right choice in their life. “They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.” Says Christ about them. (John 17:6)
The saying that he had the glory before does not mean that he would not have it any more. When we say “yesterday I had a bottle of milk in the fridge”, it can be that the bottle is still standing in that fridge today and shall still be standing there tomorrow. In case the bottle would be empty and not be standing in the fridge any more we would say “I have had a bottle of milk standing in the fridge” .
Jesus had the glory and still has it, but now the people have to get to know it. And glory has to be brought unto him now (at that time) on earth. Without God showing the people that Jesus has the glory by his Father, people would not know it and would have it difficult to accept him, Jesus, as the promised one spoken of by many prophets before Roman times.
Jesus did not say “I did have” or “I did had”, which at that time would have meant he had lost that glory at a certain time, but now it can (and probably did) that he did not loose the glory of God = so glory of God has ever been over Jesus. Today the Glory of God is still with him. In the same context (vv. 22 and 24) that same glory has already “been given” (past tense) to disciples not yet born at the time when Jesus spoke.
““I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. now, father, glorify me alongside yourself. give me the same glory I had with you before the world existed. “I made your name known to the people you gave me out of the world. they were yours, you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. now they know that everything you have given me is from you, because the words you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them. they have really come to know that I came from you, and they have come to trust that you sent me. “I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given to me, because they are yours. indeed, all I have is yours, and all you have is mine, and in them I have been glorified.” (John 17:4-10 CJB)
“the glory which you have given to me, I have given to them; so that they may be one, just as we are one—” (John 17:22 CJB)
““father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am; so that they may see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24 CJB)
As the Great Architect, God can envisage the glory of the saints, the kingdom, and Christ before their actual existence. (See Acts 15:18; Matt. 25:34; John 17:5, 24; Eph. 1:4; Heb. 4:3).
“says \@ADONAI\@, who is doing these things.’ {#am 9:11-12} all this has been known for ages.” (Acts 15:18 CJB)
““then the king will say to those on his right, ‘come, you whom my father has blessed, take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.” (Matthew 25:34 CJB)
“now, father, glorify me alongside yourself. give me the same glory I had with you before the world existed.” (John 17:5 CJB)
“in the Messiah he chose us in love before the creation of the universe to be holy and without defect in his presence.” (Ephesians 1:4 CJB)
“for it is we who have trusted who enter the rest. it is just as he said, “and in my anger, I swore that they would not enter my rest.” {#Ps 95:11} he swore this even though his works have been in existence since the founding of the universe.” (Hebrews 4:3 CJB)
“And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” (John 17:5 NIV)
“”Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24 NIV)
“that have been known for ages. {17,18 Some manuscripts things’—18 known to the Lord for ages is his work}” (Acts 15:18 NIV)
“”Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.” (Matthew 25:34 NIV)
“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love” (Ephesians 1:4 NIV)
“Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” {Psalm 95:11; also in verse 5} And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world.” (Hebrews 4:3 NIV)
As Jesus is glorified by his Father God the Almighty, the Holy Spirit or Pneuma is on him. By becoming like Christ we ourselves also can receive the Holy Spirit or Pneuma of God and receive Gods glory.
Out of himself Jesus was unable to do anything. Therefore he needed the glory of God to be with him. He needed God’s Spirit to be with him so that he could make the right decisions. Jesus was aware he needed this glory of his Father and had no desire to do what was pleasing to himself? For him it was clear that he wanted only to do what was pleasing to Him who had sent him. (John 5:30). He knew he was the special product from his Father in heaven. The people had to get to know now this prophet given from among Gods people.
By the glorification of Jesus by God the voice of the Most High could come to the ears of those who wanted to listen and hear. This prophet from among ourselves (the common people), like you, was put God words in his mouth, and this prophet and Master Teacher said to them who listened or still want to listen whatever God gave him orders to say. And whoever does not give ear to Gods words, which came to our fathers through the prophets, in different parts and in different ways, which Jesus said in God’s name, will be responsible to to the Creator of all things, Jehovah God. (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Hebrews 1:1)
This man of God Jeshua or Jesus of Nazareth, who, being the outshining of his glory, the true image of his substance, supporting all things by the word of his power, having given himself as an offering making clean from sins, took his seat at the right hand of God in heaven;” He always had the glory of God and was given the Holy Spirit, so that he went about doing good and making well all who were troubled by evil spirits, for God was with him. (Hebrews 1:3 ; Acts 10:38)
The man who had the glory by God from the beginning, when he was under the people on this earth, had to be recognised as the ‘man of God’ and as the one who could bring all those things which are in the writings of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms about him, to be put into effect. (Luke 24:44)
After Jesus , servant by the purpose of God, died he was glorified even more by being lifted up to the right hand of God, and having the Father’s word that the Holy Spirit would come, he had sent this thing, which the chosen ones could see and have knowledge of. (Acts 2:33 ) By that glorification of Jesus we too can now become servants by the purpose of God to give effect to the word of God.
“I can’t do a thing on my own. as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is right; because I don’t seek my own desire, but the desire of the one who sent me.” (John 5:30 CJB)
“for I have come down from heaven to do not my own will but the will of the one who sent me.” (John 6:38 CJB)
““\@ADONAI\@ will raise up for you a prophet like me from among yourselves, from your own kinsmen. you are to pay attention to him, just as when you were assembled at Horev and requested \@ADONAI\@ your god, ‘don’t let me hear the voice of \@ADONAI\@ my god any more, or let me see this great fire ever again; if I do, I will die!’ on that occasion \@ADONAI\@ said to me, ‘they are right in what they are saying. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their kinsmen. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I order him. whoever doesn’t listen to my words, which he will speak in my name, will have to account for himself to me.” (Deuteronomy 18:15-19 CJB)
“in days gone by, god spoke in many and varied ways to the fathers through the prophets.” (Hebrews 1:1 CJB)
“this son is the radiance of the \@sh’khinah\@, the very expression of god’s essence, upholding all that exists by his powerful word; and after he had, through himself, made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of \@haG’dulah baM’romim\@. {#Ps 110:1}” (Hebrews 1:3 CJB)
“how god anointed Yeshua from Natzeret with the \@Ruach\@ \@haKodesh\@ and with power; how Yeshua went about doing good and healing all the people oppressed by the adversary, because god was with him.” (Acts 10:38 CJB)
“Yeshua said to them, “this is what I meant when I was still with you and told you that everything written about me in the \@torah\@ of Moshe, the prophets and the psalms had to be fulfilled.”” (Luke 24:44 CJB)
““moreover, he has been exalted to the right hand of god; has received from the father what he promised, namely, the \@Ruach haKodesh\@; and has poured out this gift, which you are both seeing and hearing.” (Acts 2:33 CJB)
“I became a servant of the good news because god gave me this work to do for your benefit. the work is to make fully known the message from god,” (Colossians 1:25 CJB)
God has revealed his glory in the Word became Flesh and dwelt among us, the face of Christ. This revelation of glory contains within it the seeds of our mission. We, with unveiled faces, should reflect the glory of the Most High, Creator of all things. In order for our faces, that is our persons, to reflect to the world His glory, our faces must be turned to Christ. Not a false Christ, not an idol of our own creation or someone else’s creation, which has no glory.
We are created in the image of God: male and female. Christ, himself being an image of God, honours this creation by celebrating a marriage, revealing the emptiness of sinful humanity but also the re-creative power and glory of God.
God by giving his glory to Jesus and showing His glory to Jesus when Jesus was on earth, makes it clear for us that he is the one who totally deserves full glory of God. By the Word became flesh, God’s Plan having become human reality, we have seen his glory. Christ’s time had and has come. The glory of Christ Jesus shall also still be coming. He will come in glory. He saves the best for last. Let us therefore look out for this majestic glory, hopefully to come soon.
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JOHN 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
PROBLEM: If Christ had glory with God before the world was, then obviously it is argued he must have existed before his birth on earth.
SOLUTION*:
1. Stress is often placed on Jesus’ statement that he had glory with the Father. The J.W.’s in their New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures translate this verse as follows: “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.” But the Greek preposition “parà” translated “with” in the A.V. and “alongside” in the N.W.T. also occurs in John 1:6: “There was a man sent from {Greek: parà} God, whose name was John.” If the preposition in John 17:5 requires the literal pre-existence of Christ, then likewise it requires the literal pre-existence of John the Baptist. It is interesting that the N.W.T. inconsistently translates John 1:6 as follows: “There arose a man that was sent forth as a representative of God: his name was John.” There is no hint of pre-existence here.
2. How could Jesus have glory with his Father “before the world was” if he did not literally pre-exist? An illustration is helpful: An architect sees and knows the beautiful details of his proposed construction before the site is prepared, or the foundation-stone laid. But God is the great Architect and in His divine plan, Christ was “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8)—the chief cornerstone “foreordained before the foundation of the world”. (1 Peter 1:20). The building will duly be fitly framed together (Eph. 2:21) to constitute its part in the “kingdom prepared … from the foundation of the world.” (Matt. 25:34). Christ was “foreordained”, but not formed until born of the virgin Mary in the days of Herod the king. Likewise, the glory he had with his Father was in the divine plan of the great Architect. It was the subject of prophetic testimony “when it {the Spirit of Christ} testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:11 cf. John 12:41).
3. Scripture speaks as if others pre-existed, as well as Christ. Consider the following:
a. Of believers, Paul wrote:
i. “Whom he did foreknow.” (Rom. 8:29).
ii. “He had afore prepared {note the past tense} unto glory.” (Rom. 9:23 cf. 2 Tim. 1:9).
iii. “He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” (Eph. 1:4).
b. Of Jeremiah, the LORD said: “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” (Jer. 1:5).
But who would contend for the pre-existence of Jeremiah and other believers because the language employed states that God knew them before they were born? Similarly, the language of John 17:5 must be understood in terms of this background. Unless the principle is recognized that God “calleth those things which be not as though they were” (Rom. 4:17), confusion will result in Biblical interpretation, as it does with the wrested pre-existence interpretation given to this passage in John’s gospel.
4. The context is sufficiently clear that Christ is not “Very God”. His power and authority are derived, not innate: “As thou hast given him {Christ} power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.” (John 17:2).
* Wrested Scriptures [computer files. 1997 (electronic ed.). Northridge, CA: The Christadelphian.
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Read also:
The radiance of God's glory and the counsellor
He has given us the Pneuma, the force, from Him
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Related articles
- Jesus begotten Son of God #20 Before and After (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- On the Nature of Christ (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- The Beginning of the life of Jesus Christ (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- In The Mystery of Christ in Us (idealman.wordpress.com) the article writer says that “Christ in us” as a very significant part of the gospel, should be the milk as well as the solid food. The glory of Christ should come over us so that the glory of God could also be over us. One point of the Glory of God over Jesus is that it is part of the image of the invisible God. We are not able to see God, other while we would die, but in His son we are allowed to see many attributes of His Father, our God in heaven. Jesus Christ is is so important to come to the faith.
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God’s desire is explicitly expressed here: God wanted to make known among the Gentiles the glorious wealth of this mystery. God had a plan for how He was going to do that.
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It says we behold Jesus with unveiled faces and are transformed into the same image, where that image becomes our identity and all the more magnifies the glory of Christ. - Manly Passages for the Day: The Image of God (idealman.wordpress.com)
the greatest understanding comes through the Bible because is more directly from God. Therefore, in essence, we go to God through the Bible.Having the blueprint in the Bible is incredible. However, we need to see that Jesus is the very image of that blueprint. Without this understanding we’re simply trying to peice words together.
- Reflective Glory (idealman.wordpress.com)
One of the most amazing thoughts is how God is after glory in us! His purpose for us is beholding His glorious image.
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Through the covenant of Christ we are being brought from one stage of glory to another (2Cor. 3:18). Like it says, it is a transformation process that is ever increasing. We have the ideal man, Jesus ever before us. In Him we’re not simply followers; we’re reflectors—image bearers. - Let His Glory Reign (todaysanewday.wordpress.com)
Though we may try to stop it at all costs, the Holy Spirit will continue to provide opportunities for us to shine like stars and serve Him on His terms and not on our God-in-the-box ways.
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To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. – Colossians 1:27 - Romans 5:1-5 (NIV) (lwharper.wordpress.com)
- The glory of Christ may others see who Christ Jesus is, and let them do understand what it means to be in the image of God, what we all are or should be. therefore it may be nice to see, even when others do not like it, that certain pastors, after a few years may come to the truth and reflect on it like TD Jakes Breaks Down the Trinity, Addresses Being Called a ‘Heretic’ By Nicola Menzie (trinityspeaks.wordpress.com). Bishop T.D. Jakes, pastor of The Potter’s House megachurch in Dallas, Texas, was put on the spot during a theological roundtable and let others know that Paul is not a modalist, but he does not think it is robbery to the divinity of God to say God was ‘manifest’ in the flesh.
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“For you, the issue between Trinitarianism and modalism at its essence is one God manifesting Himself successively in three ways, or one God, three persons, simultaneously existing eternally. Your best understanding now … would you say it’s ‘one God manifesting Himself in three ways’ or ‘one God in three persons?’” Driscoll asked.“I believe that neither one of them totally get it for me,” Jakes revealed, yet expressing his agreement with the description of “one God, three persons.”“Here is why I am there. I am not crazy about the word ‘persons’ … most people who know me know that … my doctrinal statement is really no different from yours except for the word ‘manifest’ instead of ‘person,’ which you describe as modalist and I describe as Pauline,” Jakes insisted, before quoting 1 Timothy 3:16.
o them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. – Colossians 1:27
Read Full Post | Make a Comment ( 14 so far )Jesus begotten Son of God #19 Compromising fact
Forgoing article: #18 Believing in inhuman or human person
The Anointed begotten Son of God
43. A compromising fact
The Holy Trinity is more usually depicted with God the Father as an elder, God the Son as Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit as a divine Dove, as in Fridolin Leiber’s other work + The persons of the trinity are identified by symbols on their chests: The Son has a lamb (agnus dei), the Father an Eye of Providence, and the Spirit a dove.
““And this is everlasting life, that they should know You, the only true Elohim, and יהושע Messiah whom You have sent.” (John 17:3 The Scriptures 1998+)
““How are you able to believe, when you are receiving esteem from one another, and the esteem that is from the only Elohim you do not seek?” (John 5:44 The Scriptures 1998+)
“And one of the scribes coming near, hearing them reasoning together, knowing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first command of all?” And יהושע answered him, “The first of all the commands is, ‘Hear, O Yisra’ĕl, יהוה our Elohim, יהוה is one. ‘And you shall love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first command. “And the second, like it, is this, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no other command greater than these.” And the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one Elohim, and there is no other besides Him.” (Mark 12:28-32 The Scriptures 1998+)
Several other “adjustments” became necessary under the revised doctrine of God. John was made to say in certain other verses what he did not say. This trend is well illustrated by the New International Version in John 13:3, 16:28 and 20:17.
“Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God;” (John 13:3 NIV)

Ascension of Christ – Giotto di Bondone (1267-1337), Cappella Scrovegni a Padova
“I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”” (John 16:28 NIV)
“Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”” (John 20:17 NIV)
In none of these passages does the original say that Jesus was going back to God. In the first two Jesus spoke of his intention to “go to the Father” and in the last of his “ascending” to his Father. The NIV embellishes the story by telling us that Jesus was going back or returning to God. A Son whose existence is traced to his mother’s womb cannot go back to the Father, since he has never before been with the Father. Jesus also does not go to a place where he was before as God, to be God again, but he goes “to” his Father to be “with” his Father.
“יהושע, knowing that the Father had given all into His hands, and that He had come from Elohim and was going to Elohim,” (John 13:3 The Scriptures 1998+)
““I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.” “ (John 16:28 The Scriptures 1998+)
“יהושע said to her, “Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My Elohim and your Elohim.’ ” (John 20:17 The Scriptures 1998+)
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Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #18 Believing in inhuman or human person
To be continued: Before and After (Parts 44 + 45)
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- Not sure there exist a god
- Hashem השם, Hebrew for “the Name”
- Monothelitism
- Monotheism: Christelijke monotheïsten
- Reasons that Jesus was not God
- Concerning gospelfaith
- Only one God
- God is one
- God of gods
- How the Coctrine of the Trinity came to the Church or How the Doctrine of the Trinity came to the Church
- How did the Trinity Doctrine Develop
- Historical Development of Trinity
- Summary on trinity
- Trinity function
- Trinity versus Tritheism
- Why the trinity was accepted in Europe
- The Trinity – the truth
- Preexistence in the Divine purpose and Trinity
- For those who have not the rudiments of an historical sense
- How do trinitarians equate divine nature
- 2 Corinthians 5:19 – God in Christ
- One mediator
- Is the Trinity a Biblical Doctrine? + What is the Trinity? + The Father is the Only True God > Restoration Light
- Who is Jesus #1 Introduction
- Who is Jesus #2 Jesus Christ, man who died
- Who is Jesus #4 Clear statements that our heavenly Father is his “God”
- Who is Jesus #6 Jesus prays to God
- Who is Jesus #8 Father greater than Jesus
- Who is Jesus #9 100% or not
- Who is Jesus #12 Conclusion
- Pre-existence of Christ
- Resurrection of Jesus Christ
- Knowing rabboni
- Da Vinci Code: Was Jesus Human or Divine?
- The Pagan Influence of The catholic church ……The Pagan Trinity, and Saint B
- Our relationship with God, Jesus and each other
- Admittance with Christ
- Gathering with Jesus
- Sayings around God
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Related articles
- Have You Seen the Face of God? (lbbfchurch.wordpress.com)
Ever since His ascension into heaven, after His resurrection, Jesus has been exalted in glory. He has received even a greater glory because of His obedience to the Father’s will. As recorded in John 17, Jesus prayer to the Father was that He might again enter into this visible glory of heaven. - Jesus begotten Son of God #12 Son of God (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #18 Believing in inhuman or human person (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Firstfruits and the Final Harvest (eudoranachand.wordpress.com)
In the Tanakh, a cloud often expresses God’s glory. Daniel prophesied that he saw in a night vision (a dream) the second coming of Jesus, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven. He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. - A Former Pastor Warns: Leave the Church! Part 4 (endtimeebooklibrary.com)
Two books, “The Fake Jesus” and “The New Idolatry” detail historical proof that God was not the founder of the organized church. Yet for many centuries, His longsuffering and mercy endured. Both books historically connect the dots.
The book “Come Out of her, God’s People,” provides a detailed account of his memoirs as a pastor and an evangelist in a well-known African-American Denomination. - The Orthodox Definition of the Trinity (compasschurchamman.wordpress.com)
Simply stated: “The Trinity is three persons (personae) in one substance (substantia).”
“We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.” – The Athanasian Creed - What is a Modalist? (zwingliusredivivus.wordpress.com)
There really are three (and they don’t just seem to be three or appear from time to time in different manifestations as suits the moment) who really are one. It’s a mystery that can’t be grasped by finite minds but the ability to grasp truth isn’t the final arbiter of reality. - Salvation in Islam (part 2 of 3): Worship and Obey God (aroonadorough.wordpress.com)
Tawheed is an Arabic word that means oneness, and when we talk about tawheed in relation to God it means realising and affirming God’s oneness. It is the belief that God is One, without partner or associate. There is no god worthy of worship but Allah, and this is the foundation of Islam. To profess such a belief along with the belief that Muhammad is His messenger is what makes a person Muslim. - Monotheism – One God (aroonadorough.wordpress.com)
The religion of Islam is based on one core belief, that there is no god worthy of worship but Allah. When a person embraces Islam or a Muslim wants to renew or confirm his or her faith, they profess their belief that there is no god worthy of worship but Allah and that Muhammad is His final messenger. Ashadu an la ill laha il Allah wa Ashadu anna Muhammadan Rasulullah, Saying these words, the Testimony of Faith, is the first of five pillars or foundations of the religion of Islam. Belief in God is the first of six pillars of faith. - Names of God in Judaism: EMET excerpt selected by אלוה אל (powersthatbeat.wordpress.com)
The most important name of God in Judaism is the Tetragrammaton, the four-letter name of God. This name is first mentioned in the book of Genesis and is usually translated as ’the Lord’. Because Jews have for a longperiod of time considered it blasphemy to pronounce, the correct pronunciation of this name has been forgotten—the original Hebrew texts only included consonants.
Read Full Post | Make a Comment ( 2 so far )
Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed
The Anointed begotten Son of God
29. The only one
Though Jesus came into life by becoming into the womb, and getting onto the world by getting out of the womb of the human being Miryam/Mary he was implanted in her in a special way. You could compare it with fertilisation by insemination by the Holy Spirit.
When there took place a fertilisation there would have been a conception, fecundation or syngamy. As fertilisation is the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism in Marya new organism was created by the Holy Spirit.Because by Mary there was no process involving the fusion of an ovum with a sperm, which eventually leads to the development of an embryo it was an exceptional conceivement. For Mary it was her first child. Afterwards she got some other kids from a normal contact with her then husband Joseph with whom she according one of the Laws of God reproduced.
‘Conception’ is used by some to refer to implantation and is thus a subject of semantic arguments about the beginning of pregnancy, typically in the context of the abortion debate. With Mary there was a conception, an implantation by the Holy Spirit or “by the Working of God”, a conceivement
Remarkably there is the confirmation of the virginal begetting in John 1:13, if we read the Jerusalem Bible and translations like Albrecht’s German rendering of the Greek in 1920. The issue is the singular aorist verb here (egenneethee).
“not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of god.” (John 1:13 CJB)
„13 Nicht aus Geblüt der Menschen, auch nicht aus Fleischestrieb und Manneswillen, vielmehr durch Gottes Wirksamkeit ward er gezeugt.*n13.1 „ (John 1:13 Albr)
If that text is original, then it is the singular Son of God who “was begotten, not of the will of the flesh or male desire, but of God.” It is surely rather labored and strange to contrast our “rebirth” with the birth by male desire, flesh, etc. Much more natural is an easy reference to the virginal begetting of Jesus. He is then the uniquely begotten Son (monogenes) precisely because that is what he really was, uniquely brought into existence as Son.
“no one has ever seen god; but the only and unique son, who is identical with god and is at the father’s side—he has made him known.” (John 1:18 CJB)
If the conceived one in Mary is Jeshua or Jesus, he is the uniquely begotten one who could be identical with “God” because he was partly from God and partly from a human being, Mary. Being implanted by God he would be a very special person and between the many gods of the world he could receive a special position as a “god”, but that is not the same as being God, making two Gods. Being created in a special way Jesus became the highest form of created being, as Hort noted in his long dissertation on that verse.
By the Word of God, God His son as the only brought-forth Son, is to be made known to the world.
“No one has seen God at any time. The only-begotten [or, unique] Son, the One in the bosom of the Father, that One explained [Him] [or, made [Him] known]. “ (John 1:18 ALT)
30. Pre-existence and virginal birth exclude each other
Virgin Mary and infant Jesus on wall and dove of Holy Spirit and pagan symbols of the four Evangelists on ceiling – Italian Chapel, Lamb Holm, Orkney, Scotland
It was Harnack who observed that “pre-existence and virginal birth self-evidently exclude each other” (schliessen sich aus).
There is more. In the LXX of Psalm 110:3 we read the same “Today I have begotten you,” in the ruling Messianic psalm which controls the thinking of the New Testament. Psalm 110:1 is quoted massively more than any other verse from the Hebrew Bible.
“יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” יהוה sends Your mighty sceptre out of Tsiyon. Rule in the midst of Your enemies! Your people volunteer in the day of Your might, In the splendours of set-apartness! From the womb, from the morning, You have the dew of Your youth! יהוה has sworn and does not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Malkitseḏeq.” יהוה at Your right hand Shall smite sovereigns in the day of His wrath. “ (Psalms 110:1-5 The Scriptures 1998+)
“Jehovah will {1} send forth the {2} rod of thy strength out of Zion: Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. {1) Or [stretch] 2) Or [sceptre]} Thy people {1} offer themselves willingly In the day of thy {2} power, {3} in holy array: Out of the womb of the morning {4} Thou hast the dew of thy youth. {1) Heb [are freewill-offerings] 2) Or [army] 3) Or [in the beauty of holiness] 4) Or [Thy youth are to thee] as [the dew]}” (Psalms 110:2-3 ASV)
It is out of the womb that the sending of the promised one shall come.
The rod of David’s strength shall be send out of Zion and “more than the womb of the morning”[1] Messiah shall come to sit at YHVH the Only One God Jehovah’s right hand until his enemies are subjected to him.
That Son of God is the one begotten by the Father in the LXX of verse 3. Though the Masoretic text has repointed the Hebrew to read “your youth” (yaldutecha) many Hebrew manuscripts and the Hebrew version read by Origen read “I have begotten you” (yeliditicha), exactly as in Psalm 2:7 “I have begotten you.” (All this is just like substituting “shipping” for “shopping” “skyping” for “scoping.”)
““I inscribe for a law: יהוה has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. “ (Psalms 2:7 The Scriptures 1998+)
Psalm 2:7 indicating that the person is “brought forth” or “birthed”[2] is clearly key as is 2 Samuel 7:14, not to mention Isaiah 7:14: “To us [in Israel] has been born or begotten a Son.”
“I will declare shall scribe the decree statute : the LORD Yah Veh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son Ben * ; this day have I begotten birthed thee. {*Ben: cp 2:12 } (Psalms 2:7 ERRB)
“I will shall be his for him, father, and he shall be my for me, son. If he commit iniquity pervert , I will chasten shall reprove him with the rod scion of men, and with the stripes plagues of the children sons of men humanity : “ (2 Samuel 7:14 ERRB)
“Therefore the Lord Adonay himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear birth a son, and shall call his name Immanuel Immanu El . “ (Isaiah 7:14 ERRB)
And in Hebrews 7:14 we know that our Lord is “descended from Judah.”
“For it is evident hath been preevidenced that our Lord sprang Adonay rose out of Juda Yah Hudah ; of unto which tribe scion Moses Mosheh spake nothing naught concerning priesthood. {Genesis 49:8, 10 } “ (Hebrews 7:14 ERRB)
In three groups of 14’s Matthew (ch. 1) lays out the complete family history of the Son of God, who later as “ideal Israel” is called out of Egypt (2:15). Jesus then gives us, as the ideal Moses, the five blocks of New Covenant teaching, each ending with the “chorus” “when Jesus had finished all these words.”
How could anyone imagine “God the Son” being the promised “prophet arising as one like Moses and from the family of Israel” (Deut. 18:15-18)? Israel had asked not to hear God speak directly to them, and God conceded. How bizarre if then a “GOD the Son” spoke to them having abandoned a life of eternity in heaven to walk on earth with an “impersonal human nature.”
32. Transposed into Eternity
In case God incarnated in the foetus of Mary it was somebody who was and has always been who came out of Mary. This would mean that that Jesus was also eternal, in case he did not die. God can not die, being a spirit, so that comes in conflict with lots of Christian dogmatic teaching. Muslims on the other hand do not accept such an incarnation, accept Jesus as a prophetbut not as a son of God, and denied that he died. So for them Jesus had a beginning but no end.Normally in English “to die” means to become deceased or coming in a state of no longer living; being dead. The traditional believe is also that you can only die once and then you shall departure from life and be a dead person.
When a person is dead he or she will not endowed any more with life; and would be inanimate.
In case Jesus died on the cross he would have been dead: deceased, extinct, lifeless, and therefore would not have or appear to have life. Though we know that God cannot die, so when he was in Jesus when did he get out of in and who let He die? Did suddenly change the body of the God into a body of a poor man? According the Muslims the person Jeshua was interchanged for somebody else. But in the Bible this is no where recorded.
Jesus did not fake his death on the wooden stake and really came to an end, so was not eternal.
The birth date as well as the begetting of the Son of God ought never to have been transposed out of history and time into the philosophical, misty “times” of eternity.
The notion of an “eternal begetting” by which, as one church father said, the Son “had a beginningless beginning” ought to have been silenced, and Scripture allowed to speak to us all.
One architect of the Trinity admitted that the Trinity is a compromise between Jewish monotheism and pagan polytheism (Gregory of Nyssa), combining the best of two worlds! This leads people to read Philippians 2 as if Paul was on board with the Trinity of which he had never heard. Jesus was not “in very nature God” (NIV) but “in the form of God,” as God’s visible image, his glory, as the unique Son. The Son’s glory or appearance, visible, was the reflection of the One God, his Father, the God of Israel, God of gods and of the creation. As that matchless human Son, Jesus did not exploit his amazing status but worked for our good, resisting the Devil and performing perfectly as a servant leader.
That is why he has been elevated to the position of ADONI, my lord (Ps. 110:1; adoni is in all 195 occurrences a non-Deity title), at the right hand of YHVH, the One God. If Jesus were GOD in the first place then his achievement and elevation is really a charade. It is what God has done and can do with a fully dedicated human being that should make us catch our breath.
[1] “Thy people [shall be] willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. {from…: or, more than the womb of the morning: thou shalt have, etc}” (Psalms 110:3 AVRLE)
[2] I scribe the statute! Yah Veh says to me, You are my Son/Ben*; this day I birthed you. {*Ben; cp 2:12 } “ (Psalms 2:7 ECB)
Note: Many Christians believe Jesus was incarnated by the the act of grace whereby Christ took our human nature into union with his Divine Person and became man, supposed to God becoming God Man. Those Christians believe Christ is both God and man but can not explain how it was possible that the people who saw Christ Jesus did not die when they saw him, because everybody who sees God dies (Exodus 33:20).
And יהוה said to Mosheh, “Even this word you have spoken I shall do, for you have found favour in My eyes, and I know you by name.” Then he said, “Please, show me Your esteem.” And He said, “I shall cause all My goodness to pass before you, and I shall proclaim the Name of יהוה before you. And I shall favour him whom I favour, and shall have compassion on him whom I have compassion.” But He said, “You are unable to see My face, for no man does see Me and live.” And יהוה said, “See, there is a place with Me! And you shall stand on the rock. “And it shall be, while My esteem passes by, that I shall put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand while I pass by. “Then I shall take away My hand and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”
(Exodus 33:17-23 The Scriptures 1998+)
According to the Trinitarians they take Jesus as ‘the divine God’ which is not exactly the same as ‘a divine person’ united to a human nature (Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32; 1 Cor. 2:8; Hebrews 2:11-14; 1 Tim. 3:16; Gal. 4:4, etc.).
About the divinity Allon Maxwell says in Good-News Jesus among the partisans:” Of course mainstream theology attributes the sinless obedience of Jesus to the superior moral attributes of his alleged “divinity”. But think about it. That amounts to a serious a slander against the justice of God! What justice would there be in a God who condemned humans who were born unable to obey because of their lack of divinity? How could one ever truly love a God like that?”
We are not divine, but we can strive to get more divine. Daily we can work on our character to become a better person.
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Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #12 Son of God
To be continued: 33. Mediator + 34. Preeminent Son + 35. The beloved son
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Read also:
- Around pre-existence of Christ
- Preexistence in the Divine purpose and Trinity
- Pre-existence of Christ #1 Look #2 Jesus in the Old Testament
- Pre-existence of Christ #1 Intro #4 Jesus – His Parents #2 Difference
- Can God become flesh? Kan God vlees worden?
- “Son of God” – “God the Son”
- Jesus was the son of “The Father” in the fullest sense as he said on numerous occasions. + We are not divine, but we can strive to get more divine. Daily we can work on our character to become a better person. > Good-News Jesus among the partisans
- Who is Jesus Christ? #1 What does the Bible say
- Dying or not
- Immortality, eternality – onsterfelijkheid, eeuwigheid
- Christian thought: acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God
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- Colossians 1:15-20: Preexistence or Preeminence? by William Wachtel
- The Nature of Preexistence in the New Testament or Preexistensens natur i Nya testamentet (Swedish)
- Who Is Jesus? God, or Unique Man? or Wie is Jesus? God, of Unieke Mens? (Afrikaans)
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In Dutch:
- voorbestaan-jezus
- 18 Redenen dat Jezus niet God is.
- Redenen dat Jezus niet God is
- Afstraling van Gods heerlijkheid
- Hij die zit aan de rechterhand van Zijn Vader
- Zoon van God
- Hij die gezonden is naar de aarde
- Jezus Christus is in het vlees gekomen
- Christus Jezus: de zoon van God
- Jezus van Nazareth #1 Jezus Geboorte
- Jezus van Nazareth #2 De zoon van Maria
- Jezus van Nazareth #3 De Zoon van God
- Niet goddelijkheid van Christus toch
- Hij is de Zoon van God
- Onsterfelijkheid
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Related articles
- Jesus begotten Son of God #6 Anointed Son of God, Adam and Abraham (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
There are many references in the Old Testament to Jesus in the types and in the prophecies of the messiah. - Jesus begotten Son of God #7 A matter of the Future (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Several prophesies were given in the Old Testament. A prophesy is something which is still going to happen. It does not about something what had happened in the past. - Jesus begotten Son of God #9 Two millennia ago conceived or begotten (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
According to Chambers dictionary ‘to conceive’ is to receive into or form in the womb: to form in the mind: to imagine or think: to understand: to grasp as a concept to express: to become pregnant. - Jesus begotten Son of God #8 Found Divinely Created not Incarnated (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
The Son of God of Gabriel’s announcement is none other than a divinely created Son of God, coming into existence — begotten — as Son in his mother’s womb. All other claimants to divine Sonship and Messiahship may safely be discounted.
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God has not implanted himself in a human being. Perhaps you could say He did bring over a spark of this spirit, or immortal divinity, in a foetus through its mother. As God had created the first man he now could bring in to the woman Many elements which would bring into live a new human being, a second Adam, created as a fleshly likeness of his Creator, who is a spirit being, but that still would not make that Adam the same as its Creator. Nor would be any conceived child the same as his or her father or mother. - Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Pre-human of course implies, if you think about it, non-human. And the whole point of the Messiah, Son of God, is that he is and must be a man, “the man mediator” of the lucidly clear statement of Paul in 1 Timothy 2:5: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Messiah Jesus,” the second Adam. - Jesus begotten Son of God #11 Existence and Genesis Raising up (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus is thus son of Eve, of Abraham, of David, of Mary and at the same time of God. As Adam was also the Son of God by divine miracle and creation (Luke 3:38), so is Jesus Son of God. “God the Son” is out of the question at once, since the only and mortal Son of God, Messiah, was “brought into existence” some 2000 years ago, at a definite and predicted geographical location. - On the Nature of Christ (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
The testimonies which teach the indivisible unity of the Deity, as the One Father, out of whom ALL things have proceeded, and who is supreme above all, even above Christ (I Cor. 11:3), are inconsistent with the Trinitarian representation of God. The supremacy and unity of the Father would not be affirmable if there were three co-equal personalities in His One personality—a doctrine which presents us with a contradiction in terms as well as in sense. - The Seed Of The Woman Bruised (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus, who was the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth” (John 1:14), received strength that enabled him to render sinless obedience to the requirements of his Father, and manifest a character which reflected the Divine image (1 Peter2:21–24).This was necessary for the work of redemption, so that it is not solely the work of Christ, but that of the Father and the Son acting in conjunction one with the other. The Bible teaches: “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself” (2 Cor. 5:19). Jesus leaned heavily upon the Father, and God strengthened him, with the result that the fullness of the Divine character was revealed in a human body, that inherited the consequences of the first sin.
Jesus begotten Son of God #12 Son of God
The Anointed begotten Son of God
28. Son of God
In Hebrews 1:5ff three corroborating proof texts take us to the origin of the Son. 2 Samuel 7:14 reinforces Psalm 2:7 and speaks of the moment when God becomes the Father of Jesus the Son (“I will be his father and he will my son”). This is equally the moment when Jesus comes into the world, is brought into the world, i.e. is born.
“For to which of the messengers did He ever say, “You are My Son, today I have brought You forth”?1 And again, “I shall be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son”?2 {Footnotes: 1Ps. 2:7. 22 Sa. 7:14.} And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, “Let all the messengers of Elohim do reverence to Him.” And of the messengers indeed He says, “… who is making His messengers spirits and His servants a flame of fire.” But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O Elohim, is forever and ever, a sceptre of straightness is the sceptre of Your reign. “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. Because of this, Elohim, Your Elohim, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” “ (Hebrews 1:5-9 The Scriptures 1998+)
““I inscribe for a law: יהוה has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. “ (Psalms 2:7 The Scriptures 1998+)
““I am to be his Father, and he is My son. If he does perversely, I shall reprove him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.” (2 Samuel 7:14 The Scriptures 1998+)
In the New Testament we do find written down that Jesus spoke of his own coming into the world (“to this end I was born,” see John 18:37) and we know when that was. He was made holy and sent into the world (John 10:36), which is an echo of Gabriel in Luke. “The one begotten (brought into existence) holy will be the Son of God.”
“Then Pilate said to Him, “So then, You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this [reason] I have been born, and for this [reason] I have come into the world, so that I should testify to the truth. Every [one] being of the truth hears My voice.” “ (John 18:37 ALT)
Jesus is been born and as for any other being that has been born he came into existence and came into the world.
And it occurred, when all the people were baptized, that Yeshua/Jesus also was baptized. And as he prayed, the heavens were opened; and the Holy Spirit descended upon him, in the bodily likeness of a dove: and there was a voice from heaven, which said: “You are my beloved Son, in whom I have delight.” And Yeshua was about thirty years old. Then the New Testament gives us his family tree and lets us know that he was accounted the son of Yoseph/Joseph, who was the son of Heli, and in that lineage we could fine Levi and the prophets Amos, Nahum, several Yudahs/Juda, Yosephs, Nathan, the son of David, son of Boaz, son of Salmon, to come by the son of Yitzchak/Isaac, son of Avraham/Abraham/Aram, son of Terach/Thara, via the son of Shem, son of Noakh/Noach/Noah/Noe, son of Lamech, to the son of Methuselah/Mathusala, son of Enokh/Enoch, to come to the son of Yared/Jared, son of Mehalaleel/Maleleel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, so to the son of Seth, son of Adam, the son of Alaha[1] the Allah Elohim Hashem or Most High God Jehovah.“And it came to be, when all the people were immersed, יהושע also being immersed, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Set-apart Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven saying, “You are My Son, the Beloved, in You I did delight.” And when יהושע Himself began, He was about thirty years of age, being, as reckoned by law, son of Yosĕph, of Ěli, of Mattithyahu, of Lĕwi, of Meleḵi, of Yanah, of Yosĕph, of Mattithyahu, of Amots, of Naḥum, of Ḥesli, of Noḡah, of Ma’ath, of Mattithyahu, of Shim’i, of Yosĕph, of Yehuḏah, of Yoḥanan, of Rephayah, of Zerubbaḇel, of She’alti’ĕl, of Neri, of Meleḵi, of Addi, of Qosam, of Elmoḏam, of Ěr, of Yehoshua, of Eli’ezer, of Yorim, of Mattithyahu, of Lĕwi, of Shim’on, of Yehuḏah, of Yosĕph, of Yonam, of Elyaqim, of Melea, of Menna, of Mattattah, of Nathan, of Dawiḏ, of Yishai, of Oḇĕḏ, of Bo’az, of Salmon, of Naḥshon, of Amminaḏaḇ, of Ram, of Ḥetsron, of Perets, of Yehuḏah, of Ya’aqoḇ, of Yitsḥaq, of Aḇraham, of Teraḥ, of Naḥor, of Seruḡ, of Re’u, of Peleḡ, of Ěḇer, of Shĕlaḥ, of Qĕynan, of Arpaḵshaḏ, of Shĕm, of Noaḥ, of Lemeḵ, of Methushelaḥ, of Ḥanoḵ, of Yereḏ, of Mahalalĕl, of Qĕynan, of Enosh, of Shĕth, of Aḏam, of Elohim.” (Luke 3:21-38 The Scriptures 1998+)
Those who kept to the commandments of the Almighty could call themselves children of God and by such they were sons or daughters of God. Today it is not otherwise. If we follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and honour his Father also as our Father, God shall be willing to accept us as His children and we shall be able to be a son or a daughter of God and be allowed to call Him our Father who is in heaven.[2]
In the same manner as God by divine fiat created Adam from the dust as Son of God, so in due time He created within the womb of a human female the one who is by the action of the Holy spirit, the supernaturally begotten Son of God. It is surely destructive of straightforward information and revelation to argue that the Son of God did not have his origin in Mary but as an eternal Spirit. This is to dehumanize the Son — to make him essentially non-human, merely a divine visitor disguised as a man, while from the genealogical tree we see the he came forwards from all human beings.
[1] Luke 3: 38 Re. Murdock
[2] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (Matthew 6:9 KJV)
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Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve
To be continued: 29. The only one + 30. Pre-existence and virginal birth exclude each other
Read also:
- Jesus son of God
- Christian thought: acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God
- Who is Jesus Christ?
- Who is Jesus Christ? #1 What does the Bible say
- “Son of God” – “God the Son”
- Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father
- Da Vinci Code: Was Jesus Human or Divine?
- To Know God: A Living Faith #2 State of your faith
- Can God become flesh? Kan God vlees worden?
- When we do have to become Christ do we become God?
- A Provission made by God
- Looking for this promise
- God?s Will for Us – Gods Wil voor ons
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Related articles
- On the Nature of Christ (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- A Ransom in Exchange for Many (kingdomherald.ro)
- The Christmas Spirit Is Spreading (watchtower.org)
+ - Rome Marketed and Packaged Christ (jesus-is-not-god.xanga.com)
- Jesus – The Promised Messiah (fromthesunrising.wordpress.com)
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On the Nature of Christ
If Christendom is astray as to the Father and the Holy Spirit, it is not wonderful that we should find it astray in its conception of the Lord Jesus who is the manifestation of the Father by the Spirit. Christendom believes Christ to be the incarnation of one of three distinct essences, or personalities, which are supposed to constitute the God-head; and that though clothed in human form, he was God in the absolute sense of being the Creator.
This is the doctrine of the Trinitarian section of Christendom, in opposition to which, another section believes that Christ was a mere man, begotten in the ordinary process of generation, and distinguished above his fellows by a pre-eminent endowment of the “virtues” of human nature, which fitted him to be an example to mankind. This (the Unitarian) view regards him as a teacher sent from God, and is in some sense the Son of God; but denies the essential divinity of his nature. Both these views will be found equally removed from the truth. The truth lies between.
Papyrus 69 or P. Oxy 2383 Marcion Gospel of Luke
The testimonies which teach the indivisible unity of the Deity, as the One Father, out of whom ALL things have proceeded, and who is supreme above all, even above Christ (I Cor. 11:3), are inconsistent with the Trinitarian representation of God. The supremacy and unity of the Father would not be affirmable if there were three co-equal personalities in His One personality—a doctrine which presents us with a contradiction in terms as well as in sense. Jesus emphasises the distinction between himself and the Father, in the following statements:—
“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me” (John 5:30).
Again:—
“My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me” (John 7:16).
Again:—
“It is written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself; and the Father that sent me (the other witness), beareth witness of me” (John 8:17–18).
Again:—
“This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent” (John 17:3).
The persons of the trinity are identified by symbols on their chests: The Son has a lamb (agnus dei), the Father an Eye of Providence, and the Spirit a dove. – Fridolin Leiber (1853–1912)
But the Unitarian view, still more so. Joseph was not the father of Jesus. He himself repudiated his paternity, and was about to put away Mary, his betrothed, when an angel came to him with this message:—
“Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife. For that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 1:20).
This marvel had been previously intimated to Mary by the angel Gabriel, as recorded in Luke 1:35:—
“The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee; and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
The Unitarian evades these testimonies by denying the authenticity of the first two chapters of Matthew and Luke. The reasons for this denial are altogether flimsy and insufficient: nay, they are bad. The evidence in proof of the genuineness of the (by them) rejected chapters is more than decisive: it cannot be answered: it is irresistible. It leaves no room for doubt or gainsaying. There is the united evidence of all the accessible ancient MSS. and versions, supported by the recognition of the very earliest Christian writers, confirmed by the internal character of the chapters and the necessity for the event which they narrate, to explain the character and mission of Jesus of Nazareth. Against this, there is the merely negative fact that the disputed chapters are absent from the Ebionite gospel, which at the time of its production was pronounced a corruption; and from the Evangelium of Marcion, a gospel which he wrote to suit his own heathenish notions, and from which he recklessly omitted, not only the disputed chapters, but everything that interfered with his peculiar ideas.
Baptism of Christ – Francesco Albani (1578–1660)
The first writer who mentions the Ebionites is Irenæus, who speaks of them as a sect not only separated from the general body of Christians, but who opposed the doctrines preached by the Apostles, and rejected, not only the disputed chapters, but the greater part of the books of the New Testament, rejecting all the epistles of Paul, whom they called an apostate from the law. They only made use of a Hebrew gospel, which they called Matthew’s, but which differs from Matthew in many particulars besides the two chapters. Here is a sect which rejected whole books of authentic Scripture, because they were inimical to their notions. How can a reasonable man accept such a sect as affording guidance on the question of the authenticity of two particular chapters absent from their version, but present in almost all other MSS. throughout the world? Their “Matthew” was impugned at the time. It was proclaimed a corruption of the genuine gospel, while the “canonical” Matthew, as we have it, was never called in question. Epiphanius thus speaks:—“In that gospel which they (the Ebionites) have called the gospel according to Matthew, which is not entire and perfect, but corrupted and curtailed, and which they call The Hebrew Gospel, it is written” (and he quotes), “Thus,” says he, “they change the true account into a falsehood … They have taken away the genealogy from Matthew, and accordingly begin their gospel with these words: ‘It came to pass, in the days of Herod, King of Judæa.’ ” Origen alludes to it thus:—“It is written in a certain gospel, which is called, ‘according to the Hebrews,’ if indeed any one is pleased to receive it, NOT AS OF AUTHORITY, but for illustration of the present question” (and then he quotes). He afterwards quotes this as a specimen of the same gospel according to the Hebrews: “Just now my mother, the Holy Ghost, took me by one of my hairs, and carried me to the great mountain Tabor.” This absurdity, and another passage, quoted by Origen, prove that the text of the Hebrew gospel, read by Origen, was not the same as our Greek gospel of Matthew, with which its friends suppose it to be identical. It differed on many points besides the first two chapters. The absence of the first two chapters of Matthew from the Ebionite and Nazarene gospels is of no weight in view of their rejection of Paul’s epistles, which even the Unitarians accept. The omission is accounted for in the way the rejection of Paul’s epistles is accounted for; the two first chapters did not coincide with their notions, and therefore they struck them out. The Nazarene and Ebionite copies of Matthew’s gospel not only omit the first two chapters, but in several instances they contradict the other three gospels of Mark, Luke, and John, whereas the corresponding passages in our Greek copy of Matthew agree with them, which shows which way the tampering has occurred.
As to Marcion, he omitted the two disputed chapters: but he also rejected the whole of the Old Testament, both the law and the prophets, as proceeding from the God of the Jews, whom he regarded as the creator of this world, in contrast to a higher Creator. As to the New Testament, he made one for himself consisting of only one gospel, supposed to be compiled chiefly from Luke, and only ten of Paul’s epistles, which are altered from the received version in numerous instances, in order to make the text more pliable to his gnostic notions. People who quote him against the miraculous conception are bound consistently to follow him in these variations as well. He did not admit Christ to have been born at all. Consequently, be begins his gospel thus:—“In the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius, God descended into Capernaum.” He not only omits the first two chapters of Luke; he omits also the account of John the Baptist, the baptism of Christ, and his visit to Nazareth. He also omits part of chapter 8:19; 10:21; 11, part of verse 29, and all of verses 30, 31, 32, 49, 50, 51; 12:6, 28, part of verses 8, 30, 32; 13:1–5: altered verse 28, omitted from 29 to end of chapter: 15:11–32; 17, part of 10–12: whole of verse 13: whole of 17:31–33; 19:28–48; 20, from 9 to 18: also 37, 38; 21:18, 21, 22; 22:16, 35, 37, 50, 51; 23:43; 24:26–7, and verse 25 altered.
Those who quote Marcion as an authority in the case of the first two chapters, ought to accept him as such in all these cases. That they disregard him in these cases is a proof that, even in their opinion, his authority is of no weight.
The divine paternity of Jesus would stand an unassailable truth, even if the records of Matthew and Luke had no existence. These records are, however, invaluable. They are the circumstantial illustrations of a truth which, though the nature of the case, and the prophetic testimony necessitate it, we could not have so clearly and satisfactorily comprehended without them. They explain to us the appearance and character of Christ, and make us privy to the divine method of procedure, from its incipiency onwards, in the most wondrous work of God among men.
That Christ was an example in the sense of being “holy, harmless, and undefiled” is beyond doubt; but it is also true that he was a great deal more. The speciality of his mission is so plainly stated as to leave no room for the Unitarian doctrine of moral example. “Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world, ” said John the Baptist, on seeing Jesus (John 1:29). How did he take it away? The answer is in the words of the apostle Paul:—“He put away sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Heb. 9:26). Jesus himself had said, “I lay down my life for my sheep.” Paul also says to Timothy, in the second epistle, first chapter, tenth verse, “Jesus Christ hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”; a fact which is stated by Christ himself in this form, “God sent His Son, that the world through him might be saved” (John 3:17). Furthermore, Peter says, “There is none other name under heaven given whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12). Salvation is thus directly connected with the first appearing of Christ, and with what he accomplished then; not on the principle of moral stimulus supplied, but in virtue of the essential result secured by the course he fulfilled.

Incarnation of the Virgin Mary with the Three-Une God- Giulio Cesare Procaccini, Incoronazione della Vergine (Getty Museum) about 1604 – 1607
Leaving both Trinitarianism and Unitarianism, we may find the truth in the Scriptures for ourselves. The simple appellation of “Son,” as applied to Christ, is sufficient to prove that his existence is derived, and not eternal. The phrase, “Son of God,” implies that the one God, the eternal Father, was antecedent to the Son, and that the Son had his origin in or “out of” the Father to whom he must therefore be subordinate in a sense inconsistent with Trinitarian representation. “This day have I begotten thee” is the language of Scripture, dearly pointing to a commencement of days. This view is confirmed by the statement of Christ:—“As the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).
Christ, therefore, though now possessed of inherent life, had been invested with it; it is not in this case underived. It is only the Great Uncreate, the Father, that can say, “I am, and there is none else beside me.” Yet, though Christ’s is not an underived existence, it is more directly divine than the human. A man is an embodiment of his father’s mortal life-energy. Jesus was not born of the will of the flesh, but of God. He was begotten of Mary through the power of the spirit. This was the origin of his title, “the Son of God.” See the angel’s words to Mary:—“Therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35).
But, though Son of God, he was flesh and blood. “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of THE SAME.… He took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren” (Heb. 2:14, 16, 17). He was made sin for us, who knew no sin (II Cor. 5:21). As he was in character sinless, this could only apply to his bodily constitution, which, through Mary, was the sin-nature of Adam. As Paul says elsewhere (Rom. 8:3), “God sent his Son in the likeness of sinful flesh.” “He was sent forth made of a woman” (Gal. 4:4), “of the seed of David according to the flesh” (Rom. 1:3). Jesus was “a man approved of God by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him (after his thirty years’ preparation) in the midst of Israel” (Acts 2:22). This is Peter’s description of him. Paul speaks of him as “the man Christ Jesus” (I Tim. 2:5). He was tried and disciplined as Adam was, but succeeded where Adam failed. “Though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered” (Heb. 5:8). This precludes the idea of his being “very God.” He was the Son of God, the manifestation of God by spirit-power, but not God himself. “The life was manifested, ” says John, “and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested unto us” (I John 1:2).
Again, in his gospel narrative (chapter 1:14), he says:—“The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth,” from which it is evident that Christ was a divine manifestation—an embodiment of Deity in flesh—Emmanuel, God with us. “God giveth not the spirit by measure unto him,” says the same apostle (chapter 3:34). The spirit descended upon him in bodily shape at his baptism in the Jordan, and took possession of him. This was the anointing which constituted him Christ (or the anointed), and which gave him the superhuman powers of which he showed himself possessed. This is clear from the words of Peter, in his address to the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius—(Acts 10:38)—“God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed.”
This statement alone is sufficient to disprove the popular view of Christ’s essential Godhead. If he were “very God” in his character as Son, why was it necessary he should be “anointed” with spirit and power? He did no miracles before his anointing. He had no power of himself. This is his own declaration: “I can of mine own self do nothing” (John 5:30). “The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works” (John 14:10). On Calvary, left to the utter helplessness of his own humanity, he felt the anguish of the hour and cried out, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46). Before his anointing, he was simply the “body prepared” for the divine manifestation that was to take place through him. The preparation of this body commenced with the Spirit’s action on Mary, and concluded when Jesus, being thirty years of age, stood approved in the perfection of a sinless and mature character. After the Spirit’s descent upon him, he was the full manifestation of God in the flesh. The Father, by the Spirit, tabernacled in Christ among men. “God was in Christ,” says Paul, “reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them.”
The Lamb of God exhalted.- Cellar painting in Peace church in Schweidnitz (an Apocalyptic scene) – Photo Qasinka
When Jesus said, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father,” he did not contradict the statement that “no man hath seen God at any time,” but simply expressed the truth contained in the following words of Paul:—Christ is “the image of the invisible God” (Col. 1:15); “the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person” (Heb. 1:3). Those who looked upon the anointed Jesus, beheld a representation of the Deity accessible to human vision.
Jesus declares things of himself which are held to sanction the idea that he existed as a person before his birth of Mary; such as that “he came down from heaven to give life to the world” (John 6:33); that “he proceeded forth and came from the Father” (John 8:42; 16:28); that he had “power to lay down his life and power to take it again” (John 10:18); that he “had glory with the Father before the world was,” and was “loved of Him before the foundation of the world” (John 17:5–24), etc.
It is evident, however, that we must understand these expressions in the light of the undoubted facts of Christ’s life and mission. These literal facts are that he was begotten of the Holy Spirit, and born a baby at Bethlehem (Luke 1:35; 2:5–7); grew up to be a man, increasing in wisdom with years, stature, and experience (Luke 2:52); remained the private and undistinguished son of Joseph the carpenter, until the power of the Spirit was shed upon him at his baptism (Luke 3:21–23): AFTER WHICH, he did the works and spoke the words recorded; that he was put to death through weakness (II Cor. 13:4); was deserted of the power of the Father when suspended on the cross; and that he was afterwards raised from the dead by the Father (Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 37, and so on).

Baptism of Jesus Chrits represented by a masterpainter from Lake Constance of 1466, with the Trinitarian idea of the Godheads – 1450 – Paris, Musée du Louvre, Département des Arts Graphiques
With these facts in view, we are enabled to attach the proper sense to statements which, in a naked and detached form, would appear to teach a personal pre-existence. For instance, when Jesus said to the Pharisees that he came down from heaven, he could not mean that the person standing before them had bodily descended from the clouds, as his words, literally understood, would have taught, and as the Pharisees appeared to have understood; he meant to say that his origin was from heaven. The “Holy Spirit” that came upon Mary—the “Power of the Highest” that overshadowed her, came down from heaven; consequently, the resultant man could, without extravagance, say he came down from heaven. The sense was literal as applied to the Power of the Highest that produced “the man Christ Jesus”; both at the stage of his begettal and the stage of his anointing on the banks of the Jordan, when the Spirit descended in bodily form and abode upon him; but not literal as applied to the man Christ Jesus.
When he said he proceeded forth and came from God, it was in the sense of these facts. He could not mean that as a person he had emanated from the very presence of the Almighty, but that the Father had sent him in the way disclosed in the record of his birth and baptism. John is described as “a man sent from God,” without meaning to suggest that John existed before he was born and sent.
When Jesus said he had power to take up his life after it should be laid down, he expressed the confidence that God would raise him. It was not power in the dynamic sense; but authority (εξονσια); he immediately adds, “This commandment HAVE I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER”; that is, the taking up of his life would result from the Father’s power and authority, exercised in accordance with the pledge given by the Father. Literally, Jesus did not take up his life; the Father raised him (see the references to Acts, three paragraphs back); but because it was the Father’s purpose, and because the Father spoke through Jesus (John 14:10), Jesus could appropriately say that he had power to raise up himself. An example of this style of language, in which what a person has a relation to in the divine purpose, is considered as under his control and referable to his power, occurs in Jer, 1:10:—
“See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.”
Literally, the prophet did none of these things, but was overpowered and slain, as nearly all the servants of God were; yet the things he predicted came to pass, and this is taken as a sufficient basis for the highly-wrought language above quoted, which imputes the result of Jeremiah’s predictions to Jeremiah’s individual operations.
Christ’s statement that he had glory with the Father before the world was, must in the same way be understood in harmony with the elementary facts of the testimony. The glorification of Jesus was a purpose with the Father from the beginning: and, in this sense, he had glory with the Father before the world was. This may appear a strained explanation; but a regard to the scriptural habit of speech will justify it, in view of the testified facts of the case.
The Lord said to Jeremiah (chapter 1:5):—“Before I formed thee in the belly I KNEW THEE; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I SANCTIFIED THEE: and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” Now Jeremiah did not exist before his conception. Yet these words would seem to teach it, if understood as those who believe in the pre-existence of Christ, understood the statements about him. As a purpose Jeremiah existed; his person was as clearly present to the divine mind as if he had stood before Him in actual fact. This is the explanation of words, which, rigidly construed, would imply Jeremiah’s pre-existence.
Look again at the words spoken of Cyrus, the Persian ruler, more than a hundred years before he was born (Isaiah 45:4):—“For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name; I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.” The same remark applies here: Cyrus was present to the divine contemplation as really as if he existed. Hence a style of language which would seem to assume his existence before he was born.
On the same principle, the purpose to raise a dead man is expressed by ignoring his death, and assuming his continued existence. Thus Jesus deduces the resurrection from the fact that God styled Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, at a time when these men were dead. The Sadducees saw the force of the argument, and were silenced (Matt. 22:31–34). The principle of the argument is expressed in the words of Paul (Rein. 4:17)—“God who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not (but are to be) AS THOUGH THEY WERE.”

Anointing – Priestly Code the high priest is anointed
The words spoken of Jesus are of this order. When he said in prayer to the Father, “Thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world,” he did not teach that he existed from “he foundation of the world,” but that the Father regarded him with love from the beginning, and that, therefore, to the Father’s mind, he was present. In the words of Peter, “He was fore-ordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times.” (I Peter 1:20).
The same style of language is adopted with reference to Christ’s people: “He hath chosen US in him before the foundation of the world.” Literally, this would prove the existence of believers before the world began, for properly, a thing must exist to be the object of choice; actually, it only proves divine foresight. The glory which Jesus had before the world was, was the glory which God purposed for him from the beginning. Literally, he had not the glory referred to before the world was. What was the nature of that glory—the glory Jesus received in answer to this prayer? HE—the bodily Jesus—the body prepared —that which was evolved from the substance of Mary and made the subject of the anointing—was made incorruptible in substance, and the spirit shed upon that substance so abundantly, that it made him more luminous than the sun (Acts 26:13), and gave him power to bestow the spirit, and control providence in heaven and earth. Was Jesus possessed of this glory before he was born? Was he a body anointed with the spirit before he was the body prepared? Was he a real resurrected Jesus before Jesus of Nazareth was born in Bethlehem? Yet this was the glory he had with the Father before the world was. It was a glory he had in the Father’s purpose, but in no other sense.
In the same way are we to understand the words, “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58). This was Christ’s answer to the incredulity excited by his statement, “Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it, and was glad.” The Jews thought he meant to insinuate that he was contemporary with Abraham, whereas he only meant to express the fact stated by Paul in the following words:—“These all (including Abraham—see verse 8) died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them AFAR OFF” (Heb. 11:13). It was this seeing of the promise of Christ “afar off” that made Abraham glad. It was the day presented in the promises that he saw, but, as they almost always did, the Jews mistook Jesus, and, as he was prone to do, he deepened their bewilderment by using another form of speech, which still more obscured his meaning, on the principle indicated in Matt. 13:11–15: a form of speech which in one phrase expressed two aspects of the truth concerning himself, viz., that he was purposed before Abraham existed, and that the Father, of whom he was then the manifestation, existed before all.
Jesus said, “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30). He could not mean, in view of all the testimony, what Trinitarians understand him to mean, that he and the Father were identically the same person (“the same in substance, equal in power and glory”), but that they were one in spirit-connection and design of operations. This is apparent from his prayer for his disciples, “That they may be one, EVEN as we are one.” The unity is not as to person, but as to nature and state of mind. This is the unity that exists between the Father and the Son, and the unity that will be ultimately established between the Father and His whole family, of whom Christ is the elder brother. When this unity is established, Christ will take a more subordinate position than he now occupies, in relation to the race of Adam. Paul says, “When all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all” (I Cor. 15:28).
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Robert Roberts. (1984; 2002). Christendom Astray from the Bible (On The Nature Of Jesus Christ p154–165). Logos Publications. (Re-edited by the Belgian Christadelphians (2011)
Preceding articles: Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve
How The Seed Of The Woman Was Bruised On The Heel
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- Who is Jesus #1 Introduction
- Who is Jesus #2 Jesus Christ, man who died
- Who is Jesus #4 Clear statements that our heavenly Father is his “God”
- Who is Jesus #6 Jesus prays to God
- Who is Jesus #7 Also. Trust in God; trust also in me
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2012 September update:
Related articles
- Early Trinitarianism (leithart.com)
Building on the work of Robert Jenson and especially JND Kelly, Jason Vickers argues in Invocation and Assent: The Making and the Remaking of Trinitarian Theology that the proto-creedal affirmations of Trinitarian theology that are found in the various “rules of faith” specifically aim to undergird confidence in the efficacy of the rites and liturgies of the church for salvation. They are not simply “summaries of Scripture” (they leave out Israel entirely) nor simply doctrinal identity markers. Rather, they identify the name of the God who saves so that He may be invoked in praise and worship. - The God Of The Scriptures (aparticularbaptistblog.wordpress.com)
The chief trouble is that so much that passes for faith today is really only maudlin sentimentality. The faith of Christendom in this twentieth century is mere credulity, and the “god” of many of our churches is not the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but a mere figment of the imagination. - Who God says I am (davidmuia.wordpress.com)
Read Full Post | Make a Comment ( 13 so far )
The Seed Of The Woman Bruised
How The Seed Of The Woman Was Bruised On The Heel
How Christ Fulfilled The Promise.
In fulfilment of the promises of God, Jesus, as “the seed of the woman,” was born of the virgin Mary by the overshadowing power of the Holy Spirit. His mother was told:
“The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35.)
Christ had no corporeal existence before that point of time. Though he was in the mind and purpose of God from the very beginning, and in that sense was “with God,” be did not exist as a person until the “word was made flesh and dwelt among” the Jews 1900 years ago (John 1:14).
Unfortunately, confusion reigns concerning the person of the Lord Jesus, and his purpose and place in the plan of God, as a result of the reaching that claims be is the second person of a Trinity, or that he preexisted before his birth.
We ask that if the reader believes either of these doctrines, he suspend judgement upon what we have stated above, until all the evidence is before him. We undertake to explain any verse of Scripture in the light of the teaching we have set down, but we fail to understand how anybody can logically believe that Jesus and God are two persons and Net one, or that the Lord Jesus existed before he was born.
Jesus was born of his mother, and grew up to reverence God, his Father. We learn that he “increased in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man” (Luke 2:52). This expresses normal development; but if Jesus were God such a statement is incomprehensible; or if he pre-existed, it meant that he must have forgotten everything he knew in his previous existence, and had to learn it all again!
Born of a human mother, he inherited the nature common to all mankind. This is a nature subject to death, so that the Lord was in need of redemption from death, just as much as those he came to save. He was subjected to the some trials and temptations as is mankind generally, but whereas all others have failed, be triumphed over the nature he possessed, and rendered sinless obedience to God.
Where did Christ derive the strength to conquer, whereas all others possessing the same nature have failed? The answer is: from God. God was his Father and a spiritually-minded woman was his mother, so that from birth the Lord inherited qualities that be was able to develop by his own independent freewill as he grew towards maturity (see Luke 2:40, 42–47, 52). In addition, he was granted the spirit of God without measure (John 3:34), and this quickened him in the understanding of God’s will and purpose (Isaiah 11:2–3; Luke 4:18–19). By these means, Jesus, who was the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth” (John 1:14), received strength that enabled him to render sinless obedience to the requirements of his Father, and manifest a character which reflected the Divine image (1 Peter 2:21–24).
This was necessary for the work of redemption, so that it is not solely the work of Christ, but that of the Father and the Son acting in conjunction one with the other. The Bible teaches: “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself” (2 Cor. 5:19). Jesus leaned heavily upon the Father, and God strengthened him, with the result that the fullness of the Divine character was revealed in a human body, that inherited the consequences of the first sin.
The lesson of redemption, therefore, teaches that we must seek a Strength apart from flesh, even that which comes from God (James 1:17), if we would develop a character pleasing unto Him. Moreover, such Strength is available to us, as Paul taught. He declared: “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me” (Phil. 4:13).
How The Seed Of The Woman Was Bruised On The Heel.
How mistaken they were was revealed three days later when he rose from the dead.
Why did God permit His son to die upon the cross? What was accomplished in his death? First of all, it constituted a public exhibition of what is due to flesh which the history of mankind has revealed to be evil and sinful in its tendency.
Jesus rendered perfect obedience to the Father, in spite of the flesh, not because of it (John 6:63). If Jesus had yielded to his own will instead of that of the Father, be would not have rendered perfect obedience “even unto the death of the cross,” for in submitting to the requirements of God, did he not say: “Not my will but Thine be done.”
Flesh which has proved so rebellious against God throughout the ages, could only be atoned for by one way: the shedding of blood (Heb. 9:22). The flesh of Jesus, hanging lifeless upon the cross, presents the lesson of salvation to humanity. Being of our nature, he had to conquer it in order to attain unto immortality. This he did by rendering perfect obedience unto God through the strength he derived from that source. In a figurative sense, therefore, he had crucified the flesh in life by controlling its desires, and subjugating his will to that of his Father. When, at last, he hung lifeless upon the cross, the struggle was at an end. In that final act of dedication, the flesh had been silenced for ever, and no longer could assert itself against the will of God.
The “crucified Jesus” is a public exhibition of what God requires of mankind if they would seek after salvation, whereas the risen Christ” is the symbol of hope for those who are “in Christ.”
Mansfield, H. (1997). Key to Understanding of the Scriptures (electronic ed.). Findon, South Australia: Logos Publications.
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Please do also read:
- A promise given in the Garden of Eden
- Who is Jesus Christ?
- Who is Jesus #9 100% or not
- Answers on many questions: Who is Jesus #12 Conclusion
- Christ begotten through the power of the Holy Spirit
- Jesus Christ, His Sacrifice
- Why did Jesus have to die
- Who is Jesus #2 Jesus Christ, man who died
- Who is Jesus #4 Clear statements that our heavenly Father is his “God”
- Reason to believe: did Jesus of Nazareth really died on the cross and rose again
- Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends
- Swedish theologian finds historical proof Jesus did not die on a cross
- Impaled until death overtook him
- Da Vinci Code: Was Jesus Human or Divine?
- Clean Flesh #2 Purity of Jesus
- Jesus as fully human
- Pre-existence
- Jesus spitting image of his father
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- Sunday Series – Christmas Edition – Away in a Manger (1inawesomewonder.com)
Away in a manger. Meaning: In a different place, possibly far from a place one normally would be, in a trough where animals feed. Talk about an inauspicious start to life. That’s how God planned it. That’s how man arranged it. - Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
When people say that Jesus came down from heaven they should know that all the good things come down from heaven.
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Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve
Read Full Post | Make a Comment ( 14 so far )Salvation, trust and action in Jesus #2 What you must do
Salvation, trust and action in Jesus
2. Trust Jesus Christ today! Here’s what you must do:
- Admit you are a sinner.
“If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:10 KJBPNV)
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23 KJBPNV)
“Therefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Romans 5:12 KJBPNV)
“I acknowledged my sin unto you, and my iniquity have I not hidden. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto Yahweh; and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah.” (Psalms 32:5 KJBPNV) - Be willing to turn from sin (repent).
“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:” (Acts 17:30 KJBPNV)
“But showed first to them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.” (Acts 26:20 KJBPNV)
“Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.” (James 4:8-10 KJBPNV)
“I tell you, No: but, unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:5 KJBPNV) - Hunger and thirst after righteousness.
“Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.” (Matthew 5:6 KJBPNV) - Believe that Jesus Christ died for you, was buried, and rose from the dead.
“But those things, which God before had shown by the mouth of all his prophets, that the Messiah should suffer, he has so fulfilled.” (Acts 3:18 KJBPNV)
“Let this mind be in you, which was also in the Messiah Yahshua: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.” (Philippians 2:5-8 KJBPNV)
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16 KJBPNV)
“But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, the Messiah died for us.” (Romans 5:8 KJBPNV)
“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as the Messiah was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:4 KJBPNV)
“Knowing that the Messiah being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.” (Romans 6:9 KJBPNV)
“That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Yahshua, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.” (Romans 10:9 KJBPNV)
“How God anointed Yahshua of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.” (Acts 10:38 KJBPNV)
“Him God raised up the third day, and showed him openly; Not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.” (Acts 10:40-41 KJBPNV)
“For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, how that the Messiah died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve: After that, he was seen by above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain to this present, but some have fallen asleep.” (1 Corinthians 15:3-6 KJBPNV)
“For the Messiah also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:” (1 Peter 3:18 KJBPNV) - Through prayer to the Only One God, invite Jesus into your life to become your personal Saviour.
“For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:10 KJBPNV)
“The God of our fathers raised up Yahshua, whom you slew and hanged on a tree. Him has God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” (Acts 5:30-31 KJBPNV) - Confess.
“for with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance.” (Romans 10:10 CJB) - Build up a good relationship with God, Jesus and the other peoplearound you.
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Continues: Salvation, trust and action in Jesus #3 as a Christian
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Dutch version: Vertrouwen in Jezus
Previous Dutch article: Lijden bedekt door Zoenoffer
Following Dutch article: Actie bij aanvaarding van Redder Jezus
Read Full Post | Make a Comment ( 6 so far )Self inflicted misery #9 Subject to worldly things
Self inflicted misery to bear
9. Subject to worldly things
We are subject to the worldly things and suffering because of our mortality and the consequences of the human pride that man wanted to do it on his own and could know it better than God the Creator. We cannot be certain what will take place tomorrow. What is your life? It is a mist, which is seen for a little time and then is gone. We are like the wind or like a breath; our life is like a shade which is quickly gone and we fade away or are cut down like a flower. (Job 14:12; Psalms 102:11; 144:4; James 4:14)
We should be aware that several bad things could have and can be avoided. The result of personal behaviour which brings forth the possibility of bad things which can cause suffering to us or to others can be avoided if we take control of our actions and live according to good values. By following the lifestyle advocated in the Bible we will avoid much self-inflicted misery.
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Next: Salvation, trust and action in Jesus #1 Suffering covered by Peace Offering
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Related articles
- Jesus was the talk of the town and strengthened by the Holy Spirit he had not given in to the adversaries of God. Luke Chapter 4 (pofw.wordpress.com) tells us that the news over this man of God went quickly around. It was because Jesus is not God that the Almighty God of gods had to provide His son with the power to preach and heal. ““‘YHWH’s Pneuma is upon me for He has anointed me to preach Good News to the poor. He has sent me to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind-to send the oppressed away to freedom-” (Luke 4:18 MHM) Jesus became anointed by his Father to fulfil the task God had prepared for him. God was the Spirit who had given His Word to come in fulfilment. By the birth of Jesus Gods Word became reality. From that moment onwards Jesus was the realisation of that promise of years ago. The covenant made with Abraham to him and his descendants could come into live. By listening to Jesus the Word of God or the Holy Scripture is being fulfilled. “He began to tell them, “Today, this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”” (Luke 4:21 WEB)
Jesus his message was delivered with authority (Luke 4:32) and we should carefully listen to it and pay attention on all of it. Let us understand what it meant what the possessed man said: “Now in the synagogue there was someone possessed by an unclean demon, and he screamed in a loud voice: “Ahhhhh, what is there between you and us, Jesus the Nazarene? Did you come to destroy us? I know who you are-the Holy One of The God!”” (Luke 4:33-34 MHM) Yes Jesus was the special man send from God, who could do many special things, but only because his Father allowed him to do it. And the wise words he spoke he could speak because he knew the Scriptures so well and he wanted to do only the Will of God. Let us always keep in mind what the cleansed people saw: “You are the Christ, the Son of God!” > “Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with various diseases brought them to him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, You are the Messiah the Son of God. And he rebuking them allowed them not to speak: for they knew that he was the Messiah.” (Luke 4:40-41 KJBPNV) - Those who want to take Jesus as God and want to hold fast on to what lots of worldly people think are often taken by the SELF LOVE (professed by evil) vs. SELFLESS LOVE (professed by Jesus) (foodforthespiritualsoul.wordpress.com). People should be fully aware that Unconditional Love of the Father of Creation is Selfless in nature and humble to accept the words of the man from Nazareth, Jesus, also called the Christos or Christ the Messiah. Opposite to what Jesus Christ, the Son of God, demonstrated of His Own Life…by dying for the sake of all of Mankind, many people want to see in him God the son, which would mean that Jesus could not die because God can not die, being an eternal spirit. Some even do say this God had a mother, though the Bible indicates it very clearly that God was the first and has ever been. God is not born, and surely not out of a human being because it was God the Creator of all things who also created the first human being, Adam, the first man and only afterwards the first woman, Eve.
It is the Father of Creation who has sent His Son, for the sake of all mankind, sinners and no sinners (which there are not), believers but also for non-believers, to find their way back home to Him. He gives us the choice to CHOOSE to work for Him as His Servants of Love, and that is what we should choose to be, no matter how much we do have to suffer on this earth. In Jesus we have the prospect of our hope and the best mediator we can have. Let’s be thankful for this man who wants to take it up for us sinners. - As you can read in Laatste dagen omroepers, Harold Camping komt met nieuwe dag op de proppen zonder verontschuldiging there are many doom preachers and people who love to curse others and say they are the ones who receive the punishment form God. Some speak of sodomite nation of flag-worshipping idolaters (Antichrist and The Most Hated Family in America in crisis + De Meest gehate familie in America – inleiding tot vervolg). Such preachers making people afraid get a so called Church Growth Through Misery (petrosbaptist.wordpress.com) but we are afraid it is not going to be the right church nor the lasting group of believers. They are not creating a church on selfless love. And they are not focusing on future wealth of spiritual richness, but on earthly richness of this day.
Dr Jim West rightly writes: “Growth through misery may be popular, but it isn’t substantive. When misery fades away, as it always does with the passing of time, so to do those who mercenarily ‘follow’ Christ (always at a distance and never with a willingness to die to self).” - We live in a world driven by the constant pursuit of pleasure and personal satisfaction. The world encourages individuals to adopt a “me-first” mentality and avoid hardship at all cost. Because so many persons put their pleasures on the first place we do get so many hurt people and so many problems in this world.
Scripture teaches us that while we are not to actively pursue hardship, we nonetheless are to realize that God uses challenging situations to help us conform to the perfect image of His Son.
The New Testament also teaches us that God sometimes sovereignly guides His people through challenging circumstances that ultimately profit them. In Hebrews 12:5–11, the author explains that God disciplines His children like a loving Father and that discipline ultimately benefits us by helping us “share His holiness” (v. 10). Believers may therefore look upon God’s discipline as corrective; that is, aimed at helping us overcome our sinful behaviour (cf. Proverbs 3:11–12; I Corinthians 11:32; Revelation 3:19). We may also distinguish between punishment and chastisement; the former is to be associated with God’s wrath upon unbelievers and the latter with God’s loving desire to shape and mould His children.
Read more about that: Submit to divine discipline and read Jeremiah 19:3–6; 21:1–5, 11–12. - God had planted the seed of salvation into the Virgin Mary. That young girl did not mind taking the burden on to her. Not only had she have to going to suffer for what others were going to say and how she had to face the possibility to become stoned to death, because she was not yet married. She also had not have an easy time with this “man from God’ who sometimes did not what she had asked but what his Father had asked him to do. John 3 Who is the “Son”? (revivalandreformation.wordpress.com) brings us the picture of the Jewish ruler who saw in Jesus his real role of master teacher and representative of God. “There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Yahshua by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that you do, unless God is with him.” (John 3:1-2 KJBPNV)
This man Jesus from Nazareth, inflicted pain on himself by accepting the role which was made in petto for him. He was willing to fulfil the role of the Adam, the first man, who could prove to keep faithful and honour the Only One God. He studied the Torah and knew the Word of God very well. He also kept to it, no matter what people did to him to get him to other ideas. Though he was without sin, he also had to suffer. So you can wonder why God had to punish him, if suffering is a punishment from God, which it is not. And as you can see from the story of his life, though he did the Will of God, he was not exempt from doubts or pains and had to suffer a lot. - People around Jesus, who became faithful followers, had also to suffer a lot when they had Jesus not around them anymore. They did consider those persecutions as Bad things no punishment from God but as part of the reactions of those people who did not want to live according the rules of God.
- That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life does not mean we shall be excluded from suffering, because the freedom God gave to the people made it also possible that the humans do stupid things by which stupid things can come over them. The risk taking society has to become aware that it just not can do everything what it would like to do without having to bear the consequences of its deeds. So when they play with nature forces or atoms they should be aware of the dangers of nuclear damage. They could go to a scheme of Securing risks to reduce the impact of the damage. But often people do not want to learn from previous experiences. Japan’s nuclear disaster reason to think twice you should think, but many continue to use the world resources in the wrong way and they think they can play with it to their own good, not thinking about what it is going to do to next generations. So when those following generations are going to undergo the problems of the previous generations it shall not be a punishment from God, but they shall have to suffer because the selfishness of the people before them.
- People are often taking too much for granted and do not stand still to the causes of Shocking News. People on the other hand do not always have to look for the cause of a disaster in the Hand of God nor in the wrongdoings of people. There are just phenomenon of the nature which can show the beauty, the power, the destruction but also the new creation of its inside forces.
In those exceptional natural movements we also could see and find reasons to Let us recognise how great God is. Though it sometimes can sound hard but we can have Profitable disasters coming over a world who does not always want to open her eyes. - Please do find more about Suffering and how we have to look at it in the articles on the Book of Job.
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Read Full Post | Make a Comment ( 3 so far )Self inflicted misery #8 Pruning to strengthen us
Self inflicted misery to bear
8. Pruning to strengthen us
Lots of things which were not pleasant happened in this world. Many people had to suffer so much for nothing. We may be sure it has not been for nothing. No matter what happens we may not give up our hope which will be greatly rewarded. (Galatians 3:4; Hebrews 10:35)
We can try to do what is right in God’s eyes, but we shall need to accept the suffering we have to undergo and we shall have need of waiting before Jesus actions and word has effect for us.
“However, continue to remember the earlier days when you were first illuminated, and then you endured a great contest of sufferings. Indeed, you were observed as in a theatre participating with those sharing the same things. For you sympathized with those in prison bonds. With joy you plundered your own possessions, realizing you possess a better piece of property which will always remain. Therefore, you should not cast off your bold outspokenness which has a great reward to be paid it. For you need to have endurance so that having done the will of The God you might capture the Promise.” (Hebrews 10:32-39 MHM)
We may not forget the encouraging words which God speaks to us as His sons and daughters. Observing God’s kindness we should see how He guides us through life and how He corrects us. Though men do not love it when they are corrected we should not be discouraged when He rebukes us. Because the Lord corrects everyone He loves, and punishes everyone He accepts as His child.
Enduring what we suffer as being a father’s punishment would not be such a bad idea, because than our suffering shows that God is treating us as His children. Was there ever a child who was not punished by his father? If you are not punished, as all his children are, it means you are not real children, but bastards. In the case of our human fathers, they punished us and we respected them. How much more, then, should we submit to our spiritual Father and live!
Our human fathers punished us for a short time, as it seemed right to them; but we should know that God does it for our own good, so that we may share His holiness. When we are punished, it seems to us at the time something to make us sad, not glad. Later, however, those who have been disciplined by such punishment reap the peaceful reward of a righteous life.
“So don’t feel sorry for yourselves. Or have you forgotten how good parents treat children, and that God regards you as his children? My dear child, don’t shrug off God’s discipline, but don’t be crushed by it either. It’s the child he loves that he disciplines; the child he embraces, he also corrects. God is educating you; that’s why you must never drop out. He’s treating you as dear children. This trouble you’re in isn’t punishment; it’s training, the normal experience of children. Only irresponsible parents leave children to fend for themselves. Would you prefer an irresponsible God? We respect our own parents for training and not spoiling us, so why not embrace God’s training so we can truly live? While we were children, our parents did what seemed best to them. But God is doing what is best for us, training us to live God’s holy best. At the time, discipline isn’t much fun. It always feels like it’s going against the grain. Later, of course, it pays off handsomely, for it’s the well-trained who find themselves mature in their relationship with God. So don’t sit around on your hands! No more dragging your feet!” (Hebrews 12:5-12 Message)
When we do have to undergo suffering let us take it up as our training in this temporary world. When we receive correction from God let us pay close attention and take it as a warning. Jehovah corrects those He loves, as parents correct a child of whom they are proud.
“My son, despise not the chastening of Jehovah; Neither be weary of his reproof: For whom Jehovah loveth he reproveth; Even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.” (Proverbs 3:11-12 ASV)
So let us in a way be happy when we can hear an exhortation which reasons with us as with sons. Let us not become so depressed or pulled down that we faint when we are reproved of the One and Only who can have everything in hand. Though people think they can do something bad to us, they shall never be able to kill our deepest soul. Only the One from above shall be able to give us eternal life.
He is the One who can shout to us or give chastening or instruction for our profit. So we should not resent God’s discipline or sulk under His loving correction.
“Observe, then God’s kindness and pruning upon those Jews who fell; but upon you non-Jews God’s kindness if you continue in that kindness, otherwise you also will be pruned off.” (Romans 11:22 MHM)
“But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die.” (Ezekiel 18:24 KJBPNV)
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJBPNV)
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Continues: Self inflicted misery #9 Subject to worldly things
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Related articles
- The agony of true worship (pastorayres.wordpress.com)
We must find a way to understand the difference between idol worship in the name of God and true worship.2 Corinthians 12:99And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
All throughout scripture we find that worship involves a great cost and sacrifice. Here in Paul’s request to have his suffering removed He finds that God would rather him go on living with his suffering as an enablement to worship God. This enablement results in better praise and more effective work for Christ. For a man who spent most of his Christian walk under fire, in jail, fleeing for his life, in suffering, being beaten, being arrested he still needed to learn more brokenness in order for God to receive full glory.Is it possible that our suffering purifies our response to a holy God from pride, arrogance, pretension, selfishness, and competition?
From the pain experienced by the first animal’s innocent death to the pain and fear of Adam and eve hiding in the garden, our ancient progenitors found their expulsion from the garden costly.
Pain and suffering causes inequalities between men to vanish. The trauma room of ER’s to the suffering in chairs outside ICU wards, to the paneled walls of funeral homes people find equality in suffering. No pride and selfishness exists. No pretence or bigotry can thrive.
Ask yourself about the suffering that bears your celebration and exaltation of God. May you find the absolution in true worship of God, the maturing of your walk and the power that rested upon Paul which only finds existence through our death to self, our acknowledgement of our inabilities, our weakness, our utter lostness, and moral defeat.
- The Agony of Defeat (idkh.org)
There is nothing permanent it this world. The only thing permanent is change. So, when we fail and feel the agony of defeat, look at it as if it is something that we have to experience in life and after a while it will be gone.we may sometimes fail and taste the agony of defeat, but that is normal. We are not yet perfect. We try to be perfect but failures come along the way. But those failures must not stop us from achieving what God has planned for us. We are all unfinished work of God. - Pierced! (devotionsandblessings.wordpress.com)
O my soul, look at Jesus!
He is your Substitute.
He is there for you!
He is suffering death for you!
He is bearing the desert of your sins in His body on the tree!
He is enduring your curse, being made accursed for you!He is revealing . . .
what is in man’s nature,
what is in God’s heart, and
what He is willing to do and suffer–rather than I should perish! - God Isn’t Punishing You (ruthiedean.com)
Ruthie Dean continually struggles to believe God has her best interest in mind. “Because sometimes life’s circumstances just seem plain unfair – even unbearable. I’ve caught myself thinking of God as cruel taskmaster, thinking “I told her not to” as He sends down punishment from heaven.” she writes.God takes pleasure in giving you GRACE abundantly. He is longing to bless you – in the midst of trials and suffering and persecution and confusion – because He is a good Dad.Psalms 103:11 says, “As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.” Not because we are good, but because He is. - God cares for our hurts. The God who hears each heartbeat also hears the cry of every broken heart. He is not a God who is faraway and watching over the clouds, untouched by our miseries or unaware of our limitations. He knows our frailty. He knows our frustrations, and He has shared in our deepest griefs.
Fragments from the Book of Job #7 Epilogue
As Kevin Miller writes in his blog article about Job “Job is a book of tragedy, foolish counsel, mourning, but also great strength.” For us it can be counted as such a real romantic film: Job begins and ends happy and cheery, but in-between we get drama of high calibre. By the end of the very first chapter, all of Job’s kids were dead, his animals had been killed and/or stolen, almost of of his servants were dead, and he had completely crushed. Than his health was taken away and by the end of Job 2, we found this (once) wealthy, healthy, man of integrity sitting on a pile of ashes scraping his gaping wounds with broken pieces of pottery. As so often happens by humans is that his friends also started to accuse him of all sorts of bad things. People love it to find the evil by an other, but do not want to see “the beam” in their own eyes. “In Job 8:4, Job’s good old buddy, Bildad, even has the audacity to accuse Job of hidden sin! As if Job were to blame for his suffering! That’s a sad misconception that is sometimes even taught from pulpits today: hidden sin is causing your suffering. ” writes Miller rightly. We have to be careful not to fall in that trap or pitfall.
We also may not accept the latest theologies: Poverty theology and prosperity theology. The first considering those who are poor to be more righteous than those who are rich. It considers a matter of greed to become more wealthy than others and it honours those who choose to live in poverty as particularly devoted to God. Conversely, prosperity theology considers those who are rich to be more righteous than those who are poor; it honours those who are affluent as being rewarded by God because of their faith. In fact, both poverty and prosperity theology can be half-truths but are not depicting the full picture of Gods handling people.
Instead of clinging our hears to false teachers we do better to take Gods Words to our heart. As Arlin Sorensen says: “God has spoken to us clearly through His Word – the Bible is His first communication to us. But more than that – God continues to speak to us as well. The Holy Spirit lives in us to communicate God’s Truth to our hearts. God may speak to us through a dream or a vision. There is no shortage of God speaking to us and giving us direction for life. ” (About Job 33) Even without any book we could and should hear the words from God, because God is talking to us continually through creation, His Word, and the Spirit that lives in us. In the Book of Job as in many other Books of the Bible God lifts up a veil and is shown up as the Most Almighty, Omnipotent, Most Wise and Creator of all things and of all beings. The problem is that most of us do not want to read the Bible and as such hear the Words of God. They prefer to listen to the most popular speakers. But they are not always the wise speakers. On the other hand we also often fail as listeners because we have certain ideas to which we want to keep fast. Most listeners are already preparing their response before the ones to whom they listen ever finish what they have to say. We saw a glimpse of how we want to win the argument, like Elihu who thought he had all the answers. A lot of persons also think the Bible is just an old book and they forget that this Book of Books, the Best-seller of all times can change their life.
Because we want things our way, we prefer the answers who go in our direction of thinking and we dare to feel unjustified when something does happen not like we want it. Often it is our pride which hinders us to think straight and worse, makes it impossible to hear the answers from God. I do hope that in Arlin Sorensen’s Thoughts on Scripture the writer means not with ” It does keep us from hearing God’s response – because there isn’t one. ” that there is no answer for us, because even if we have haughtiness or arrogance God has everybody given the chance to put his or her pride aside and to take up His Word of Wisdom in their hands to learn from it. He is right to say that God opposes the proud. Scripture tells us that over and over. But that God doesn’t hear well – if at all – when pride is our defining character we cannot find right, because God listens to everything what happens and to what people say. He knows and sees everything. Nothing can escape His eye or ear. He doesn’t despise any. Jehovah is not going to look down upon with contempt just because a person can have some bad characteristics as pride. Yes He detest excessive self-esteem but He does see through our eyes and heart and knows were our attitude comes from. If we are honestly willing to hear God He shall come close to us. God shows no partiality to mankind (Job 34:19) and He has always His answer ready for everybody, who wants to hear it. Though it may not always come at the time we would think appropriate. It is up to God to decide to whom He gives answer when. God is always in control of everything. God is powerful and mighty because His righteous judgement and wisdom. Elihu showed us in chapter 36 how God gives some answers to the world, though they may not be like they would like to hear them. (Fragments from the Book of Job #5: chapters 32-37) Nothing can be “thwarted” from God (NIV) no purpose of Him can be restrained. (Job 42:2) Nothing is to difficult for God (Genesis 18:14; Isaiah 43:13; Jeremiah 32:17; Matthew 19:26) When we are in agony, like Jesus was in the garden of Gethsemane, we can pray to Him and ask Him for things which seem impossible, because He can do everything (Mark 14:36) which shall always be more than any human being (Luke 18:27). God wants to be heard (Job 33:16) and use also people to let His voice been heard (2 Kings 17:13). By showing the people the results of their doings, the crimes caused by their pride, God gives answers to them (Job 36:9). To hear God we sometimes have to be willing to stand still and to be prepared to listen (Job 37:14). To stop or “stand still”: “Stand still and see the salvation of God” (Exodus 14:13; 2 Chronicles 20:17). “Stand still and hear God’s commandments” (Numbers 9:8). “Stand still that I may show you the word of God” (1 Samuel 9:27). “Stand still that I may reason with you” (1 Samuel 12:7).
“Behold, God is mighty, and despises not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom. He preserves not the life of the wicked: but gives right to the poor. He withdraws not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings are they on the throne; yes, he does establish them forever, and they are exalted. And if they are bound in fetters, and are held in cords of affliction; Then he shows them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded. He opens also their ear to discipline, and commands that they return from iniquity.” You can read here how God answers them and which advice He give those people who got a higher position but could not keep it right. ” If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures. But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge. But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he binds them. They die in youth, and their life is among the unclean.” (Job 36:5-14 KJBPNV)
“He delivers the poor in his affliction, and opens their ears in oppression. Even so would he have removed you out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no narrow place; and that which should be set on your table should be full of fatness.” (Job 36:15-16 KJBPNV)
“Behold, God exalts by his power: who teaches like him?” (Job 36:22 KJBPNV)
“He seals up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work.” (Job 37:7 KJBPNV)
“Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. Men do therefore fear him: he respects not any that are wise of heart.” (Job 37:23-24 KJBPNV)
“Gird up your loins now like a man: I will demand of you, and declare you unto me.” (Job 40:7 KJBPNV)
“Then will I also confess to you that your own right hand can save you.” (Job 40:14 KJBPNV)
“I know that you can do every thing, and that no thought can be withheld from you. Who is he that hides counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.” (Job 42:2-3 KJBPNV)
Also people who do not believe in God shall at certain times, decided by God, be able to hear God saying things to them. Because God’s desire is that we move away from sin and move to righteousness. He opens our ears to know His commands Job 36:10).
In Job 37:19 Elihu seems to have taunted Job asking him to teach them (Elihu and the three friends) how they should understand how to speak with God. Our brother Robert Prins wrote: “Elihu began by looking up. Maybe we should do the same as we gaze at the vastness of the heavens, the ethereal blue of the sky, the beauty of the sunrise and the sunset – new pictures painted by God for us to marvel at every day. We can see the expanse of his power as we look up into space and see the millions of stars he has created in glorious beauty, shining in the blackness on the night sky. And when we see clouds we can be impressed by the sheer volume and weight of water that God suspends above the earth. Who has not failed to be impressed by the thunder and lightening of a storm – thunder that can be heard all over the land, and lightening that lights up the whole earth with one almighty flash. And what about the rain, the snow or the hot sun and the way that God can disrupt the whole of man’s affairs by floods, snowstorm, earthquake or heatwave…
May our hearts also pound and leap from their places as we stop to consider God’s wonders.”
We have to reflect on what happens in the world and how God works on it. we have to try to understand God’s involvement in the way that things work in the natural world. Looking around us we can “see” and “hear” a lot of answers to our questions. Other people can sensitise others, like us, to get to know more about the Creator deity. They also can let us see that trials we often go through are not only for us, but for those around us as well and for people far away, who often have nothing to do with what caused their problem either.
As God broke His silence to Job (Job 38:1-) (Fragments from the Book of Job #6: chapters 38-42) He employed a series of more than 70 questions to show Job and humankind, his ignorance and God’s greatness. As long as everything goes all right nobody seems to worry about God, but as soon as something terrible happens ‘everybody’ wants to blame God for it. Suddenly everybody has than criticism on the Creator. Speaking with great irony and personifying His other creations God want putting men right in front of it, and having them to face the facts. did not God confront Job with mysteries of the animal kingdom in order to make him more aware of his ignorance and thus of his inability to be a competent judge of the works of God?
We get to see the other point about what the Book of Job is about. When people criticizes the way things happen in the world and blame God for it, they are trying to usurp God’s position as Master or Governor of this world (Job 40:6-14).
Normally God has not to justify Himself before us, but God addressed the issue of His own justice and Job his futile attempt at self-justification (Job 40:8-14). God questions man if he would condemn the Creator or discredit His justice to justify man himself (Job 40:8 )
In this world many want to have modern gods, people to whom they can look up. Some of those men and women would not mind taking on the appearance of deity. God challenges those people (Job 40:10) King David knew his place and wanted to honour God, but hoped that the adversaries and accusers would be clothed with disgrace and wrapped in shame as in a cloak (Psalm 109:29).
As we came to chapter 42 of the Book of Job the contest with the satan, i.e. the accuser is now over and Job became restored. Job repented for the presumptuous words he spoke to the Most High, his Creator(Job 42:6). We got to see that Jehovah does not want people to suffer for no reason. God could not be impressed with the words of Jobs friends. He found it time that the friends of Job were put on their place and that Job could enjoy again happiness. This last one put away his pride and rebellion and finds contentment in the knowledge that he has God’s fellowship. We also should already be pleased that God wants to be with us, though we do not understand all His ways with us and with the world around us.
Knowing that God is in control of everything but that He has given men the right to clear all things themselves, it is up to take our own responsibility. After the fall Adam and Eve and all their next generations could prove they could manage the creation. So lets tackle it according to our best means, knowing that we all received everything around us in loan from the Creator Jehovah our God, the Most High and omnipotent.
As a Christian, we should lovingly and sincerely have concern for many people and their many circumstances. We should see what happens in the world and should look for the underlying causes. First of all should we always remember that God has given men a free will. The Creator has given men the possibility to choose and to have many choices. So we should be aware which way several people wanted to go, what they did and what consequences they and not God, brought to other human beings and to the rest of the creation of God. As children of God our hearts should ache for the pain and trouble that other creatures experience in life. This concern should compel us to react wisely and to come unto their help. To people we should speak truth into their life, which can include everything from pointing out sin to giving wise counsel, and intercede for them before God in prayer. We also have to stay aware of our limitations. We never can “play for God”. As finite beings, there is only so much we can do and we must discern whom God has called us to help and how God has called us to help them. We have to make choices how and how much we can help and have to put priorities first. Whatever happens we should carry first whatever load God has allowed to come over us, but not blaming Him for it. Than we should see how God still stays with us and helps us to carry that load or burden. As brothers and sisters in Christ we can help each other to make the burden lighter. Out of love we should try to do everything to make the problems less.
“Bear you one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of the Messiah. For if a man thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden.” (Galatians 6:2-5 KJBPNV)
Let us be humble enough to accept that the Creator of all things has a good Plan which He is going to bring to a good end in due time. Although we cannot fully understand or appreciate Him, we can love, trust, respect Him and acknowledge that God alone can save us. Jehovah is our strength and He is the only underived and self-sustaining existence in the universe. All other forms of life are but incorporations of the life which is in Him — so many subdivisions of the stream which issues from the great fountainhead. God, as the antecedent, eternal power of the universe, has elaborated all things out of Himself. The testimony before us is, that the God of gods did not hide from the wilderness Israelites, for in the startling familiarity they had every proof that He was with them in the shining face of Moses and the tables of stone. There were rules in abundance on how to worship, but even that did not make obedient children. God’s life instruction and every provision of over reaching care, made little difference to the Israelites. Having the opportunity to read all the stories what happened to the people of God we should know better and take care not “to follow the world”. We should choose to follow the man God had sent to the earth to save the world. And we should follow the teachings of that son of God, called Yeshua or Jesus, the Nazarene, also called the Messiah.
In case we are not so happy with our life, let us look how we can make it better and easier to bear. Our disappointment is in itself a sign that we hunger for something better, and whatever our suffering situation and disappointment with the outcome, that we will regain a better outlook. All sufferers can have Hope. God especially cares and provides for all men — He is not willing that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9; John 3:16,17). The disappointment, with God’s answer, can be overwhelming, but God’s disappointment with us and God’s rejection of us are worse. We may never know the purpose of our suffering, but we need to rest assured that God has one. None of His should ever risk rejection.
If God leaves room for doubts and doubters, and we know He does, He also leaves room for the faithless, and in our disappointment, even for us. So God wants to give everybody His answer and His Help. The God who is positive has not only measures and rules for us but also promises.That we always have our ears and eyes open to see God ways and hear His answers and follow His instructions. That we have our eyes fixed on Gods Hope and that we hope in Him and in His son.
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“The final chapters of this remarkable book, one of the first on record, brings the drama to a wonderful conclusion. The questions with which it opened by the quest of the Satan, are now answered, and Job finds his experiences have developed his character and understanding. As a wonderful type of the Lord Jesus, Job is vindicated by Yahweh, and becomes a mediator for his friends. He is again commended as Yahweh’s ‘righteous servant’ and is restored and honoured sevenfold. The last speech of the Deity is in Job 41, in which is revealed the power of the flesh in the great leviathan, and the way in which the Almighty Creator permits His creation to display greater spiritual principles. So the record continues as the mighty leviathan is presented as the final picture of Yahweh’s omnipotence. [1] Its untamable ferocity: Job 41: 1-9. [2] Its terrifying appearance: Job 41: 10-24. [3] Its power in attack: Job 41: 25-32. [4] Its incontestable supremacy: Job 41: 33,34″ (GEM).
Job 42: “The picture moves to the exaltation of Job: [1] Job humbles himself before Yahweh: Job 42 1-6. [6] Divine rebuke of Job’s accusers: Job 42 7-9. [7] Job restored and honoured: Job 42 10-17. The type is before us in the record of Job; the antitype will shortly be revealed in the return of Yahshua the Anointed, and the elevation of his true family. Then great blessing will come to the whole world, in fulfilment of the Abrahamic covenant” (GEM).
“Trouble (so far from being evidence of desertion) is a means employed in His hands to lay the foundation of future joy and blessedness. Let His children then be comforted and strengthened to endure even the deepest and most inexplicable affliction. Let them learn to see God in the darkness and to feel His hand in the tempest. Let them beware of the folly of Job’s three friends rebuked of God. Let them know that this time of our pilgrimage is the night, and that though weeping may endure for a night, joy cometh in the morning and that joy a joy prepared by the weeping. Let them apply the consolation Christ has given them: ‘Blessed are ye that weep now, for ye shall be comforted’ [Matthew 5:4]” (WP 83).
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Epilogue of the Book of Job
The Deliverance of Job
Job 42 (New Century Version)
7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not said what is right about me, as my servant Job did. 8 Now take seven bulls and seven male sheep, and go to my servant Job, and offer a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will listen to his prayer. Then I will not punish you for being foolish. You have not said what is right about me, as my servant Job did.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite did as the Lord said, and the Lord listened to Job’s prayer. 10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the Lord gave him success again. The Lord gave Job twice as much as he had owned before. 11 Job’s brothers and sisters came to his house, along with everyone who had known him before, and they all ate with him there. They comforted him and made him feel better about the trouble the Lord had brought on him, and each one gave Job a piece of silver and a gold ring. 12 The Lord blessed the last part of Job’s life even more than the first part. Job had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand teams of oxen, and a thousand female donkeys. 13 Job also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 He named the first daughter Jemimah, the second daughter Keziah, and the third daughter Keren-Happuch. 15 There were no other women in all the land as beautiful as Job’s daughters. And their father Job gave them land to own along with their brothers. 16 After this, Job lived one hundred forty years. He lived to see his children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren. 17 Then Job died; he was old and had lived many years.
Job 42:17
The LXX adds, as footnote: “And it is written that he shall rise up again, with those whom the LORD shall raise up.”
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Next: Let us recognise how great God is
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Please do find more about Suffering on our main website:
Related please do read:
- About suffering
- Disappointed with God
- Gods design in the creation of the world
- Gods instruction about joy and suffering
- Gods promises
- Gods measure not our measure
- Gods non answer
- Gods promises to us in our suffering
- Gods hope and our hope
- Gods salvation
- Hope for the future
- Importuning for suffering hearts
- Looking for blessed hope
- Miracles in our time of suffering
- Our relationship with God, Jesus and each other
- Promise of comforter
- Seems no future in suffering
- Suffering
- Suffering – through the apparent silence of God
- Suffering continues
- Suffering leading to joy
- Surprised by time in joys & sufferings
- Words from God about suffering
- Working of the hope
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Related articles
- Self inflicted misery #1 The root by man (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- According to some Job (davidscommonplacebook.wordpress.com) receives from God a response more than a little unsatisfying. According to those writers God does not tell Job why he has suffered. God puts Job in his place by showing him how little Job actually knows and when you read the story good you can find a lot of answers in the discussions that went on.
- Surviving and Learning from the Book of Job (richardburkey.wordpress.com) let us rightly know that God’s plans are bigger than our plans. God’s view of the world is bigger then our view. The book of Job challenges our reading as God “corrects” the 3 friends and their theology. In many ways, they sum up what most believe about God. They state what the obvious should be, how most situations work, or in most case “rules of thumb” when it comes to understanding how the world works. One problem, they are proven wrong. Put God in a box, and the lid shuts tight usually either snapping at a finger or leaving you on the outside.
Job throughout the book has pleaded for a hearing before God. Job wants to know why (don’t we all?). Yet God simply, powerfully, eloquently declares who He is. He is God, beyond Job in his day, and beyond us in our day. - Fragments from the Book of Job #2: chapters 12-20 (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Fragments from the Book of Job #3: chapters 21-26 (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Fragments from the Book of Job #4: chapters 27-31 (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Fragments from the Book of Job #5: chapters 32-37 (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Fragments from the Book of Job #6: chapters 38-42 (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Fragments from the Book of Job #7 Epilogue (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Fragments from the Book of Job #5: chapters 32-37
We can imagine that people get scared when they hear certain preachers talking as the three friends of Job. As the wife of a Southern Baptist pastor writes in her blog that one pastor saying that all the troubles which befell Job were his fault because he spoke forth fear into his life. That alleviated some of her fears somewhat. Though we would recommend starting to read the full Book of Job it is true that you don’t hear much in church or otherwise about the book of Job other than a passing comment or reference here or there. Studying Job brings forward that there is much more than that character of a righteous man blamed to be unrighteous and being rightly penalised by God.
Last chapter we saw that Job succumbed to the same self pity we all succumb to at times.
When things are going good in their lives, rarely do people give God the credit for it, but as soon as trouble comes along, the first one to get the blame is God. Even worse, there are ministers out there telling people its O.K. to get angry with God. (Stop Blaming God) There are also a lot of preachers trying to convince people that it is God who brings punishment to the wicked today. Many have to come out that came out of that false system of thinking. Job’s friends did not see that it was the accuser and adversary of God (satan) was trying to drive a wedge between God and His beloved. If Job proved to be righteous only because “it pays” then Satan (any adversary) wins his bet with God. As the friends certain pastors say rightly God is almighty and just. They also preach that because no human is entirely innocent in God’s eyes and therefore have to suffer as suffering, according to them, must be a retribution for some sin. It has come so bad that today we even find pastors who say certain violent action and bringing pain to others is justified because the others deserve it. (Antichrist and The Most Hated Family in America in crisis) These doom preachers are right when they say that the Holy God shows us, that He completely is in state to bring the destruction over this whole world because of the sin. The Bible tells us of this tremendous fact in Genesis 6:12-13 when God, looking on the earth, saw that it was evil: for the way of all flesh had become evil on the earth. And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh has come; the earth is full of their violent doings, and now I will put an end to them with the earth. “And God saw the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.” (Genesis 6:12-13 ASV) God brought the deluge over the earth, but that was the first and last turn that God would do that. Lots of doom thinkers make people frightened. Often they try to get the people of their congregation in their ban with cursings to the outer world and with “If you had more faith”. We should recognise the false teachers at the words and actions they take. Teachers or preachers their sayings we always do have to compare them with the Words of God which we can find in the Book of Books, the Bible. Compare where the Holy Scriptures disagrees. In a time when so many people are striving for an explanation of why their lives turn out a certain way, or why things (good or bad) happen to them, the expressions “it’s all part of God’s plan,” “everything happens for the best,” or “it just wasn’t meant to be,” and so on, have became a little tiresome. In “When Bad Things Happen to Good People,” perhaps Rabbi Harold S. Kushner can offer you a refreshing point of view that differs from those who think everything occurs on earth because God wants it that way, and at the same time provides a surprising comfort in the fact that events actually can, and do, take place for no reason at all. Rabbi Kushner tries to reconcile a common Judeo-Christian view of God and causality with a perspective of life that holds a place for randomness and happenstance. He tries to proof that things happen in life that God has nothing to do with, and there is a way to find peace in accepting this. Also for him as for us not everything that takes place in the world has a purpose or comes from God. God, in Kushner’s view, created the world and provides the foundation of moral principle. But according some thoughts God would not quite be in control of the world He created. He hopes for our good and He sympathizes, as it were, with us in our pain, but He is powerless to do anything about it according this Jewish writer. But the One who created is in control but allows people a lot of freedom. Aish.com, a division of Aish HaTorah, an apolitical network of Jewish educational centres in 35 branches on five continents remarks: “As to why a God Who had the power to create the entire universe in the first place would create one that He is powerless to control, Kushner basically shrugs his shoulders and contents himself with noting that the world is relatively good for most people most of the time. We might designate this theory as “randomness plus God.”" (Why Harold Kushner is wrong) Fro them Harold Kushner’s approach to suffering is profoundly un-Jewish and provides no solace to those in pain. Unable to understand why a good God would allow individuals to suffer, Kushner ends by neatly defining the question away. He cannot even conceive of the possibility of any understanding, and so concludes that we have no answers because there are no answers. But God has provided those who want to listen and who want to find insight and wisdom, the possibilities to find the answers in the Holy Scriptures. “By arguing that much of what happens is beyond God’s control, Kushner effectively severs the connection between God and the world and thereby empties physical existence of all meaning.” dixit Aish.
When bad things happen to good people who do you blame? What, if anything, keeps you from accepting painful situations or losses in your life?
A lot of people do not see that the Book of Job also gives a picture of who God is and of what He wants from us. They also quote a lot from the friends their words but forget how in Job and Elihu’s replies we get a rectification and the solution to the whole problem in the answer of the Elohim, Jehovah God.
In chapters 29-31 of the Book of Job (Fragments from the Book of Job #4: chapters 27-31) Job also present us a picture of some of the commandments to which we better keep to live in conformity with the Will of God or Gods Law. Those Commandments of God or Mitzvah (Hebrew: מצוה “commandment”, [mitsˈva], Biblical: Miṣwah; plural mitzvot [mitsˈvot]; Biblical: Miṣwoth from צוה ṣiwwah “command”) were brought to humankind through the ages that God ministered His People. In Judaism they refer to the 613 Mitzvot (Hebrew: תרי”ג מצוות: Taryag Mitzvot, “613 commandments”; Biblical Hebrew: Miṣwoth) or 613 commandments given in the Torah. Job brought some statements and principles of law, ethics, and spiritual practice contained in the Torah or Five Books of Moses forwards to proof that he tried honestly to fullfill Gods wishes.
When the friendship of God was with Job, he argued, (Job 29:4) that the Almighty was yet with him. He had the idea that God had deserted him, like Jesus also asked God why He had abandoned him. Strangely Job does not see that God was all the time with him. No matter what happens, when we stay with God, He shall always stay around us. Though we do not hear Him, He shall keep an eye onto us. God is often seemingly hidden, but His silence, His deafness, His blindness is all part of His plan to strengthen our relationship with Him. It can be hard when God does not reveal Himself in visible proofs. But it makes stronger faith. We have to be careful that we do not project our human limitation upon God so that we could better understand our problems. We have limits, but the Only One God has no limits as a spirit. “The God is Pneuma, and those worshipping Him must of necessity worship spiritually and in harmony with Truth.”” (John 4:24 MHM)
Sometimes we are too busy to attend to all the details in our life, but Jehovah God never loses track of the details.
Also the friendship in the community is being questioned. You can compare the situation of Job and his friends as to what you expect of your “brethren”. How do we react when something goes wrong with somebody of the ecclesia? And when one of the brothers or sisters is taken in any wrongdoing, how do you want to put such a one right in a spirit of love; keeping watch on yourself, for fear that you yourself may be tested. Are you also willing to take on yourselves one another’s troubles, and so keep the law of Christ. “Brothers, if anyone is overcome by some mistake those who are spiritual should gently and meekly readjust such a person. However, watch yourselves so you are never tempted. Continue to carry the heavy burdens of one another and in this manner fulfil Christ’s Law.” (Galatians 6:1-2 MHM)
Job had moments of doubt and we also can feel that we are standing alone in the turbulent storm. All the thorns from the problems can hurt us deep and cause anger against the others and worse, against God for His seeming abandonment in His hiddenness. But from the next chapters and other Books from the Old and New Testament we shall see that God does not turn a deaf ear and a blind eye. God does see and hear in the camps of the evil ones, and not only that, but He assures us that He is there in the middle of the evil. He does not forsake those sons and daughters of His as it seems, for He sets the joy before them, and will send an accompanying angel to bear them up in the extreme. He wants us to “Look up”, but if we are so deep in the pit in the evil camp with our eyes permanently cast down, alas we find, miraculously, and mercifully that He is there with us. He is not hidden, and He whispers, “Look up, look up for I am here with you”. When Job refused to give up on God, despite the pleadings of all his accusers, he won the contest with them, and was privileged to see what he would have missed had he succumbed to their suggestions. How do you look up to God. Can you keep trusting God and have a positive perspective? What might you think in a similar situation? Where do you place God in your life and where was God for you when it hurt the most?
Job demanded an audience with God in which he was sure he would be vindicated. Enter Elihu on the scene who sets Job straight before the entrance of God himself. When Job finally gets his audience with God it doesn’t go like he planned at all. He comes away humbled and repentant for his selfish behaviour. He is accepted by God still however, which speaks to eternal security of the believer. His three friends are a different matter however. It says God’s anger burned toward them. (see Jot’s writing on Job)
Job, who consciously lived his life as if it were open before and in service to the God of heaven and earth and kept to the regulation of community, (one of the Laws or Deuteronomic code) brought forwards all the good deeds he had done. We also have to do such good things. Delivering or taking care of the poor and the fatherless (Job 31:16–23); giving widows heart to sing for joy; no stealing or coveting; putting on righteousness; helping the blind, the lame and the needy; even helping animals, providing them with food (Job 31:31) searching out causes; putting the unrighteous on their place; giving counsel or advice; not having looked at the elements of the earth to worship them (Job 31:24-28) because we have to abstain from any pagan worship and our worship of God must remain pure. Not erecting sacred stones or adoring the richness of the earth (gold, silver, money, wealth), not making for yourself an idol. Keeping to purity and respecting rules which regulate marriage.
We should try to get to know the regulations of the Most High, but just keeping to them because we are afraid He might harm us is not the good reason to hold vast to the commandments. God wants from us that we do come out of our own free will, and that we love Him for what He really is. It is not by the disasters in the world or the many problems on earth that the greatness of the Creator is shown.
Does not God and His son gave to those who came with a request? We all can use this earth in loan from the Creator but so we want to share of it with others? do some of us not keep their property from him who would for a time make use of it. You have knowledge that it was said, “Have love for your neighbour, and hate for him who is against you”. But Jesus said to us: “Have love for those who are against you, and make prayer for those who are cruel to you; So that you may be the sons of your Father in heaven; for his sun gives light to the evil and to the good, and he sends rain on the upright man and on the sinner. For if you have love for those who have love for you, what credit is it to you? do not the tax-farmers the same? And if you say, Good day, to your brothers only, what do you do more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same?” (Matthew 5:42-47 BBE). “Instead, all of you continue to show loving concern for your enemies. And continue doing good-continue lending money without expecting anything to be paid back. If you do your reward will be considerable, for you will become the Most High’s offspring, because He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.” (Luke 6:35 MHM)
We should know that “Jehovah is good to all; And his tender mercies are over all his works.” (Psalms 145:9 ASV)
We can also notice that Job recited a blessing for each enjoyment, but also blessings and curses for those who keep and break the law (Deuteronomic code in Deuteronomy Chapters 12-26).
Job preferred to curse the day he was born rather than God.
If we read in between the lines we can see that it is with profound courage and compassion that sufferers survive the inhuman dignities placed upon them by captors, and torturers and they need to remember that it is easier to receive the pain and moan with it, than it is to be the source of the inhuman behaviour, for there is no escaping the human consciousness that makes inhumanity possible. So, in that sense, human captors or persecutors and torturers are always worse off than their prisoners, or those who they torment. In a way we can’t escape that not such liked events intrude with such force that we are compelled to deal with our faith in the context of what is taking place in our lives. Suffering is one such event. It challenges us to confront the ultimate questions of who we are and what is the significance of our lives. Suffering is a painful invitation to deepen our faith and make it a real part of our lives.
We also get the question of “what makes “happy“, “healthy”, “wealthy” and “wise“.
Now we have heard the speeches of Jobs friends and his replies. Does the hair-rising, mystical spiritual experience of Eliphaz sound reliable to you? (Job 4:12-16) Can we be righteous as against God and be blameless against our Maker?
When we hear what happens in some churches and see how preachers rage on television do you not question if “correct” theology (all the right words) and/or quoting just some phrases out of context can ever be “bad” theology?
Today we listen to Elius or Elihu son of Barakel the Buzite who was young in years. He had kept silent all the time because the others were older and therefore he did not dare to speak up against them. He was fearful, not daring to tell them what he knew. (Job 32:6). There is a great lesson for us all here. It is not necessarily the case that old age brings wisdom. Wisdom is a result of experience. We should not keep to our pride and think because we have a certain age we also would have the wisdom. If we want to listen to advice or hear wisdom we should look for a trustworthy man person, who has had many testings in his or her life and stuck to his or her faith throughout, rather than one who has reached a great age or got a lot of wealth. It is clear from this book that old age does not always bring wisdom and understanding, but in this latter part of the book we are brought to our senses by this younger man who has the answers and who is able to help Job see his life in perspective. Let us not ignore the potential for wisdom to come from our younger members. And the wisdom does not always come from the most popular nor from the most liked one. The wisdom does not always flatter. We must recognise that there are certain preachers who want to be popular and even get huge churches full of people, because they know how to present their “show”. they know exactly what the people want to hear and give it to them in such a way that the people are pleased to hear such talking. But Elihu made it clear that what he had to say would not be emotional, or spoken with prejudice. He would not flatter, nor would he show respect to persons. He knew that God would condemn those who did. Though he also could find his thoughts “darkened”, and that is also what we all have to be aware of, certain things we can know for sure, others not, in certain things we can have wisdom, in others not. At certain point we even can find some haughtiness in his speaking. With a certain arrogance he boast that he has so much to say he can’t keep him straight. (Job 32: 18-22) Do we notice a taste of a braggart? In case we know something more then an other we should be pleased that we can be blessed as such. Let us therefore always be humble enough and listen in first instance to the One and Only God Almighty.
Brenton Translation
1851 by Lancelot Brenton
Job Chapter 32
Job 32:1 And his three friends also ceased any longer to answer Job: for Job was righteous before them.
Job 32:2 Then Elius the son of Barachiel, the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram, of the country of Ausis, was angered: and he was very angry with Job, because he justified himself before the Lord.
Job 32:3 And he was also very angry with [his] three friends, because they were not able to return answers to Job, yet set him down for an ungodly man.
Job 32:4 But Elius had forborne to give an answer to Job, because they were older than he.
Job 32:5 And Elius saw that there was no answer in the mouth of the three men; and he was angered in his wrath.
Job 32:6 And Elius the Buzite the son of Barachiel answered and said, I am younger in age, and ye are elder, wherefore I kept silence, fearing to declare to you my own knowledge.
Job 32:7 And I said, It is not time that speaks, though in many years [men] know wisdom:
Job 32:8 but there is a spirit in mortals; and the inspiration of the Almighty is that which teaches.
Job 32:9 The long-lived are not wise [as such]; neither do the aged know judgment.
Job 32:10 Wherefore I said, Hear me, and I will tell you what I know.
Job 32:11 Hearken to my words; for I will speak in your hearing, until ye shall have tried [the matter] with words:
Job 32:12 and I shall understand as far as you; and, behold, there was no one of you that answered Job his words in argument,
Job 32:13 lest ye should say, We have found that we have added wisdom to the Lord.
Job 32:14 And ye have commissioned a man to speak such words.
Job 32:15 They were afraid, they answered no longer; they gave up their speaking.
Job 32:16 I waited, (for I had not spoken,) because they stood still, they answered not.
Job 32:17 And Elius continued, and said, I will again speak,
Job 32:18 for I am full of words, for the spirit of my belly destroys me.
Job 32:19 And my belly is as a skin of sweet wine, bound up [and] ready to burst; or as a brazier’s labouring bellows.
Job 32:20 I will speak, that I may open my lips and relieve myself.
Job 32:21 For truly I will not be awed because of man, nor indeed will I be confounded before a mortal.
Job 32:22 For I know not how to respect persons: and if otherwise, even the moths would eat me.
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Job 33:1 Howbeit hear, Job, my words, and hearken to my speech.
Job 33:2 For behold, I have opened my mouth, and my tongue has spoken.
Job 33:3 My heart [shall be found] pure by [my] words; and the understanding of my lips shall meditate purity.
Job 33:4 The Divine Spirit is that which formed me, and the breath of the Almighty that which teaches me.
Job 33:5 If thou canst, give me an answer: wait therefore; stand against me, and I [will stand] against thee.
Job 33:6 Thou art formed out of the clay as also I: we have been formed out of the same [substance].
Job 33:7 My fear shall not terrify thee, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.
Job 33:8 But thou hast said in mine ears, (I have heard the voice of thy words;) because thou sayest, I am pure, not having sinned;
Job 33:9 I am blameless, for I have not transgressed.
Job 33:10 Yet he has discovered a charge against me, and he has reckoned me as an adversary.
Job 33:11 And he has put my foot in the stocks, and has watched all my ways.
Job 33:12 For how sayest thou, I am righteous, yet he has not hearkened to me? for he that is above mortals is eternal.
Job 33:13 But thou sayest, Why has he not heard every word of my cause?
Job 33:14 For when the Lord speaks once, or a second time,
Job 33:15 [sending] a dream, or in the meditation of the night; (as when a dreadful alarm happens to fall upon men, in slumberings on the bed:)
Job 33:16 then opens he the understanding of men: he scares them with such fearful visions:
Job 33:17 to turn a man from unrighteousness, and he delivers his body from a fall.
Job 33:18 He spares also his soul from death, and [suffers] him not to fall in war.
Job 33:19 And again, he chastens him with sickness on his bed, and the multitude of his bones is benumbed.
Job 33:20 And he shall not be able to take any food, though his soul shall desire meat;
Job 33:21 until his flesh shall be consumed, and he shall shew his bones bare.
Job 33:22 His soul also draws nigh to death, and his life is in Hades (the grave).
Job 33:23 Though there should be a thousand messengers of death, not one of them shall wound him: if he should purpose in his heart to turn to the Lord, and declare to man his fault, and shew his folly;
Job 33:24 he will support him, that he should not perish, and will restore his body as [fresh] plaster upon a wall; and he will fill his bones with morrow.
Job 33:25 And he will make his flesh tender as that of a babe, and he will restore him among men in [his] full strength.
Job 33:26 And he shall pray to the Lord, and his prayer shall be accepted of him; he shall enter with a cheerful countenance, with a full expression [of praise]: for he will render to men [their] due.
Job 33:27 Even then a man shall blame himself, saying, What kind of things have I done? and he has not punished me according to the full amount of my sins.
Job 33:28 Deliver my soul, that it may not go to destruction, and my life shall see the light.
Job 33:29 Behold, all these things, the Mighty One works in a threefold manner with a man.
Job 33:30 And he has delivered my soul from death, that my life may praise him in the light.
Job 33:31 Hearken, Job, and hear me: be silent, and I will speak.
Job 33:32 If thou hast words, answer me: speak, for I desire thee to be justified.
Job 33:33 If not, do thou hear me: be silent, and I will teach thee.
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Job 34:1 And Elius continued, and said,
Job 34:2 Hear me, ye wise men; hearken, ye that have knowledge.
Job 34:3 For the ear tries words, and the mouth tastes meat.
Job 34:4 Let us choose judgment to ourselves: let us know amount ourselves what is right.
Job 34:5 For Job has said, I am righteous: the Lord has removed my judgment.
Job 34:6 And he has erred in my judgment: my wound is severe without unrighteousness [of mine].
Job 34:7 What man is as Job, drinking scorning like water?
Job 34:8 [saying], I have not sinned, nor committed ungodliness, nor had fellowship with workers of iniquity, to go with the ungodly.
Job 34:9 For thou shouldest not say, There shall be no visitation of a man, whereas [there is] a visitation on him from the Lord.
Job 34:10 Wherefore hear me, ye that are wise in heart: far be it from me to sin before the Lord, and to pervert righteousness before the almighty.
Job 34:11 Yea, he renders to a man accordingly as each of them does, and in a man’s path he will find him.
Job 34:12 And thinkest thou that the Lord will do wrong, or will the Almighty who made the earth wrest judgment?
Job 34:13 And who is he that made [the whole world] under heaven, and all things therein?
Job 34:14 For if he would confine, and restrain his spirit with himself;
Job 34:15 all flesh would die together, and every mortal would return to the earth, whence also he was formed.
Job 34:16 Take heed lest he rebuke [thee]: hear this, hearken to the voice of words.
Job 34:17 Behold then the one that hates iniquities, and that destroys the wicked, who is for ever just.
Job 34:18 [He is] ungodly that says to a king, Thou art a transgressor, [that says] to princes, O most ungodly one.
Job 34:19 [Such a one] as would not reverence the face of an honourable man, neither knows how to give honour to the great, so as that their persons should be respected.
Job 34:20 But it shall turn out vanity to them, to cry and beseech a man; for they dealt unlawfully, the poor being turned aside [from their right].
Job 34:21 For he surveys the works of men, and nothing of what they do has escaped him.
Job 34:22 Neither shall there be a place for the workers of iniquity to hide themselves.
Job 34:23 For he will not lay upon a man more [than right].
Job 34:24 For the Lord looks down upon all men, who comprehends unsearchable things, glorious also and excellent things without number.
Job 34:25 Who discovers their works, and will bring night about [upon them], and they shall be brought low.
Job 34:26 And he quite destroys the ungodly, for they are seen before him.
Job 34:27 Because they turned aside from the law of God, and did not regard his ordinances,
Job 34:28 so as to bring before him the cry of the needy; for he will hear the cry of the poor.
Job 34:29 And he will give quiet, and who will condemn? and he will hide his face, and who shall see him? whether [it be done] against a nation, or against a man also:
Job 34:30 causing a hypocrite to be king, because of the waywardness of the people.
Job 34:31 For [there is] one that says to the Mighty One, I have received [blessings]; I will not take a pledge:
Job 34:32 I will see apart from myself: do thou shew me if I have done unrighteousness; I will not do [so] any more.
Job 34:33 Will he take vengeance for it on thee, whereas thou wilt put [it] far [from thee]? for thou shalt choose, and not I; and what thou knowest, speak thou.
Job 34:34 Because the wise in heart shall say this, and a wise man listens to my word.
Job 34:35 But Job has not spoken with understanding, his words are not [uttered] with knowledge.
Job 34:36 Howbeit do thou learn, Job: no longer make answer as the foolish:
Job 34:37 that we add not to our sins: for iniquity will be reckoned against us, if [we] speak many words before the Lord.
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Job 35:1 And Elius resumed and said,
Job 35:2 What is this that thou thinkest to be according to right? who art thou that thou hast said, I am righteous before the Lord?
Job 35:3 I will answer thee, and thy three friends.
Job 35:4 Look up to the sky and see; and consider the clouds, how high [they are] above thee.
Job 35:5 If thou hast sinned, what wilt thou do?
Job 35:6 and if too thou hast transgressed much, what canst thou perform?
Job 35:7 And suppose thou art righteous, what wilt thou give him? or what shall he receive of thy hand?
Job 35:8 Thy ungodliness [may affect] a man who is like to thee; or thy righteousness a son of man.
Job 35:9 They that are oppressed of a multitude will be ready to cry out; they will call for help because of the arm of many.
Job 35:10 But none said, Where is God that made me, who appoints the night-watches;
Job 35:11 who makes me to differ from the four-footed beasts of the earth, and from the birds of the sky?
Job 35:12 There they shall cry, and none shall hearken, even because of the insolence of wicked men.
Job 35:13 For the Lord desires not to look on error, for he is the Almighty One.
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Job 36:1 And Elius further continued, and said,
Job 36:2 Wait form me yet a little while, that I may teach thee: for there is yet speech in me.
Job 36:3 Having fetched my knowledge from afar, and according to my works,
Job 36:4 I will speak just things truly, and thou shalt not unjustly receive unjust words.
Job 36:5 But know that the Lord will not cast off an innocent man: being mighty in strength of wisdom,
Job 36:6 he will not by any means save alive the ungodly: and he will grant the judgment of the poor.
Job 36:7 He will not turn away his eyes from the righteous, but [they shall be] with kings on the throne: and he will establish them in triumph, and they shall be exalted.
Job 36:8 But they that are bound in fetters shall be holden in cords of poverty.
Job 36:9 And he shall recount to them their works, and their transgressions, for such will act with violence.
Job 36:10 But he will hearken to the righteous: and he has said that they shall turn from unrighteousness.
Job 36:11 If they should hear and serve [him], they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in honour.
Job 36:12 But he preserves not the ungodly; because they are not willing to know the Lord, and because when reproved they were disobedient.
Job 36:13 And the hypocrites in heart will array wrath [against themselves]; they will not cry, because he has bound them.
Job 36:14 Therefore let their soul die in youth, and their life be wounded by messengers [of death].
Job 36:15 Because they afflicted the weak and helpless: and he will vindicate the judgment of the meek.
Job 36:16 And he has also enticed thee out of the mouth of the enemy:
Job 36:17 [there is] a deep gulf [and] a rushing stream beneath it, and thy table came down full of fatness. Judgment shall not fail from the righteous;
Job 36:18 but there shall be wrath upon the ungodly, by reason of the ungodliness of the bribes which they received for iniquities.
Job 36:19 Let not [thy] mind willingly turn thee aside from the petition of the feeble that are in distress.
Job 36:20 And draw not forth all the mighty [men] by night, so that the people should go up instead of them.
Job 36:21 But take heed lest thou do that which is wrong: for of this thou has made choice because of poverty.
Job 36:22 Behold, the Mighty One shall prevail by his strength: for who is powerful as he is?
Job 36:23 And who is he that examines his works? or who can say, he has wrought injustice?
Job 36:24 Remember that his works are great [beyond] those which men have attempted.
Job 36:25 Every man has seen in himself, how many mortals are wounded.
Job 36:26 Behold, the Mighty One is great, and we shall not know [him]: the number of his years is even infinite.
Job 36:27 And the drops of rain are numbered by him, and shall be poured out in rain to form a cloud.
Job 36:28 The ancient [heavens] shall flow, and the clouds overshadow innumerable mortals: (36:28A) he has fixed a time to cattle, and they know the order of rest. (36:28B) [Yet] by all these things thy understanding is not astonished, neither is thy mind disturbed in [thy] body.
Job 36:29 And though one should understand the outspreadings of the clouds, [or] the measure of his tabernacle;
Job 36:30 behold he will stretch his bow against him, and he covers the bottom of the sea.
Job 36:31 For by them he will judge the nations: he will give food to him that has strength.
Job 36:32 He has hidden the light in [his] hands, and given charge concerning it to the interposing [cloud].
Job 36:33 The Lord will declare concerning this [to] his friend: [but there is] a portion also for unrighteousness.
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Job 37:1 At this also my heart is troubled, and moved out of its place.
Job 37:2 Hear thou a report by the anger of the Lord’s wrath, and a discourse shall come out of his mouth.
Job 37:3 His dominion is under the whole heaven, and his light is at the extremities of the earth.
Job 37:4 After him shall be a cry with a [loud] voice; he shall thunder with the voice of his excellency, yet he shall not cause men to pass away, for one shall hear his voice.
Job 37:5 The Mighty One shall thunder wonderfully with his voice: for he has done great things which we knew not;
Job 37:6 commanding the snow, Be thou upon the earth, and the stormy rain, and the storm of the showers of his might.
Job 37:7 He seals up the hand of every man, that every man may know his own weakness.
Job 37:8 And the wild beasts come in under the covert, and rest in [their] lair.
Job 37:9 Troubles come on out of the secret chambers, and cold from the mountain-tops.
Job 37:10 And from the breath of the Mighty One he will send frost; and he guides the water in whatever way he pleases.
Job 37:11 And [if] a cloud obscures [what is] precious [to him], his light will disperse the cloud.
Job 37:12 And he will carry round the encircling [clouds] by his governance, to [perform] their works: whatsoever he shall command them,
Job 37:13 this has been appointed by him on the earth, whether for correction, [or] for his land, or if he shall find him [an object] for mercy.
Job 37:14 Hearken to this, O Job: stand still, and be admonished of the power of the Lord.
Job 37:15 We know that god has disposed his works, having made light out of darkness.
Job 37:16 And he knows the divisions of the clouds, and the signal overthrows of the ungodly.
Job 37:17 But thy robe is warm, and there is quiet upon the land.
Job 37:18 Wilt thou establish with him [foundations] for the ancient [heavens? they are] strong as a molten mirror.
Job 37:19 Wherefore teach me, what shall we say to him? and let us cease from saying much.
Job 37:20 Have I a book or a scribe my me, that I may stand and put man to silence?
Job 37:21 But the light is not visible to all: it shines afar off in the heavens, as that which is from him in the clouds.
Job 37:22 From the [north] come the clouds shining like gold: in these great are the glory and honour of the Almighty;
Job 37:23 and we do not find another his equal in strength: [as for] him that judges justly, dost thou not think that he listens?
Job 37:24 Wherefore men shall fear him; and the wise also in heart shall fear him.
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Continues: Fragments from the Book of Job #6: chapters 38-42
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- The Role And Character Of Elihu In The Book Of Job
Perhaps no other biblical character has been characterized by scholars in such radically different ways as Elihu. Concerning wisdom, Elihu is described as either an “exceeding wise” man or a “buffoon”; concerning his motivation, he is seen as anything from a divinely-inspired “man of God” to the “person assumed or adopted by Satan” to attack Job; concerning his contribution to the Book of Job, he is considered to be “irrelevant” or “integral.
… many scholars believe that the Elihu speeches as we have them now were not part of the original Book of Job.
reasons for rejecting the authenticity:- Elihu is mentioned nowhere in the Book of Job outside of his speeches in Job 32-37
- the style of the Elihu speeches is different from the style used in the other parts of the book.
- Job’s challenge in chapter 31 calls for God, not Elihu, to make an appearance.
- Elihu’s speeches supposedly contribute nothing to the Book of Job. (but as you can read Elihu does have something significant to add)
… many scholars reject these arguments as unconvincing and strongly believe the Elihu speeches to be an original part of Job.
Reasons to come to gether
In earlier articles you could already read that we find it considerably important to come together as Christian brothers and sisters.
We must assemble or come together to feel the solidarity with each other in connection with Christ in our meetings and in our daily live. Those believers that come together have to show expression of their belief and have to give a clear picture to others of their agreement.
On Christadelphians you can find an introduction to the Tags “to meet, assemble, congregate” and on “ecclesia”.
In the light of the Bible, we look at why it is so important to come together and to form together a community.
Coming together or assembling, has not only to come together to a place but also getting involved with each other. Coming together is giving an opportunity to talk with each other. It can give occasions to lead discussions and decisions over the order of a service. In meetings first there can be considered how we will realize the service and how we can give the belief community further growth power. The entire structure of the ecclesia can come part of the discussion in a meeting, but also the contact with the men outside the community of religious and between the religious mutually.
This coming together or gathering can be a sign of togetherness by which we brotherly unite, meeting each other but also getting the chance to bring new people to the union. Also it is not bad to have reunions or special meetings like Bible-study Weekends, Bible Camps etc. on regular moments to reunite with other Christadelphians.
To confer or hold congresses, or larger assemblies could also be fascinating enterprises that are worth considering and generally can contribute to the welfare of the local ecclesia as well as to the general larger feeling of solidarity. Bible-days, Bible weekends, Bible-weeks, Biblecamps and other more than one day events can give an extra dimension at meetings.
Already in the antiquity, one had the “municipality of the assembly of Israel [Hebrew: qehal ‘`adhath-Jis·ra·´el']“. (Exodus 12:6) and important and larger events were taken to hold special meetings. Organized groups of men as the “municipalities of Israel” (Leviticus 16:17; Joshua 8:35; 1 Kings 8:14), “municipality of the true God” (Nehemiah 13:1), “municipality of Jehovah” (Deuteronomy 23:2, 3; Micha 2:5), and “Jehovah’s municipality” (Numeri 20:4; 1Chonicals 28:8) came then with each other specially to allot time for God and the community of His supporters.
There were different kinds of meetings of men, as for religious goals (Deuteronomy 9:10; 18:16; 1 Kings 8:65; Psalms 22:25; 107:32), for the treating of administrative matters (1 Kings 12:3) but unfortunately also for warfare (1 Samuel 17:47; Ezra 16:40). Today we can concentrate us fortunately mostly on the peaceful activity and on the daily service of the local belief community or ek·kle’ si·a, the ecclesia.
Formerly the public assemblies (Gr. : su·na·go’ ge) found mainly place in the Synagogue where one generally assembled to meet, collect, and to bring men in contact with the Word of God. And that must also be the principal purpose of our meetings or assemblies.
Jesus has brought a lot of men up from their seat to collect around him and who met regularly with his disciples to give their spiritual instruction. As these apostles after Jesus’ death came together , as on the Whit Sunday in 33 C. T., when the Holy Spirit was poured out on those who were together (Acts 2:1-4) we in imitation of these examples have to call and to bring together disbelieving people together with Christians to meet, to study the Word of God and to clear viewpoints in this world and to take the right stand, concerning the manner on which we have to live according the Will of God and to what we are going to do with the world.
Regular meetings will give us the occasion to hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; strong and unshaking to the hope we acknowledge, and will create occasions to move one another at all times to love and good works. This stirring up like a fire among ourselves compassionate affection and good works can stimulate the whole community, the congregation, the parish but also the rest of the village. Therefore we should not be giving up our meetings, as is the way of some, but keeping one another strong in faith; and all the more because we should see the day coming near. (Hebrews 10:23- 25)
Like these assemblies previously could take place in the sunagoge, synogue or in the ekklesia or ecclesia (Acts 7:38; 8:1; 13:1; 19:23, 24, 29, 32, 41; 1 Corinthians 12:28; 2 Corinthians:1) the meetings of the followers of Christ could also find place in the house of a fellow believer (Romans 16:5; Philemon 2). Today we also can assemble in each other’s houses, public places or especially for that reason built buildings. But we may certainly not postpone the assembling because we would not have a special building or churches. No, we can build up at flaw of a church our ‘church’ in a usual living room or even in a cafeteria or a restaurant or in a conference hall. The assembling in a private house is natural the most simple and the cheapest way. The coming together in a living room brings a domestic atmosphere to the belief community that can make there then also a full house church .
In small groups, we can form then separate Christian municipalities or “municipalities of God” (Acts of the apostles 15:41; 1 Corinthians 11:16) that can grow into full church communities. In older Dutch translations sometimes the word “church” becomes used in Scriptures, in relation to the Christian municipality, as in 1 Corinthians 16:19 (KB; Leu). Since many people think more of a building think where religious services are held, by the word “church” then of a municipality that practises her religion, the translation “church” can be misleading. Therefore we, as brothers of Christ, give preference to use the word ecclesia as it was used before. The association of the “Church” with the Roman catholic Catholic churches with cross constructions and church tower must become put aside and the Church must be seen as the Body of Christ made up by the collection of religious people. The meeting religious people form together the church. They must feed the church community and make it really happen.
Read more > Congregate, to gather, to meet
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