Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #19 Compromising fact
The Anointed begotten Son of
““And now, esteem Me with Yourself, Father, with the esteem which I had with You before the world was.” (John 17:5 The Scriptures 1998+)
In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which he “had” before the foundation of the world. But in the same context (vv. 22 and 24) that same glory has already “been given” (past tense) to disciples not yet born at the time when Jesus spoke.
“And the esteem which You gave Me I have given them, so that they might be one as We are one, “ (John 17:22 The Scriptures 1998+)
““Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, might be with Me where I am, so that they see My esteem which You have given Me, because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.” (John 17:24 The Scriptures 1998+)
It is clear then that the glory which both Jesus and the disciples “had” is a glory in promise and prospect. Jesus thus prays to have conferred on him at his ascension the glory which God had undertaken to give him from the foundation of the world. John speaks in Jewish fashion of a pre-existing Purpose, not a pre-existing second Person. Our point was well expressed by a distinguished Lutheran New Testament professor, H.H. Wendt (The System of Christian Teaching, 1907):
“The saying in John 8:58, ‘Before Abraham came to be, I am’ was prompted by the fact that Jesus’ opponents had countered his remark in v. 51 by saying that Jesus was not greater than Abraham or the prophets (v. 52). As the Messiah commissioned by God Jesus is conscious of being in fact superior to Abraham and the prophets. For this reason he replies (according to the intervening words, v. 54ff) that Abraham had ‘seen his day,’ i.e., the entrance of Jesus on his historical ministry, and ‘had rejoiced to see’ that day. And Jesus strengthens his argument by adding the statement, which sounded strange to the Jews, that he had even been ‘before Abraham’ (v. 58). This last saying must be understood in connection with v. 56. Jesus speaks in vv. 55, 56 and 58 as if his present ministry on earth stretches back to the time of Abraham and even before. His sayings were perceived by the Jews in this sense and rejected as nonsense. But Jesus obviously did not (in v. 56) mean that Abraham had actually experienced Jesus’ appearance on earth and seen it literally. Jesus was referring to Abraham’s spiritual vision of his appearance on earth, by which Abraham, at the birth of Isaac, had foreseen at the same time the promised Messiah, and had rejoiced at the future prospect of the greater one (the Messiah) who would be Israel’s descendant. Jesus’ reference to his existence before Abraham’s birth must be understood in the same sense. There is no sudden heavenly pre-existence of the Messiah here: the reference is again obviously to his earthly existence. And this earthly existence is precisely the existence of the Messiah. As such, it was not only present in Abraham’s mind, but even before his time, as the subject of God’s foreordination and foresight. The sort of pre-existence Jesus has in mind is ‘ideal’ [in the world of ideas and plans]. In accordance with this consciousness of being the Messiah preordained from the beginning, Jesus can indeed make the claim to be greater than Abraham and the prophets.
“In John 17:5 Jesus asks the Father to give him now the heavenly glory which he had with the Father before the world was. The conclusion that because Jesus possessed a pre-existent glory in heaven he must also have pre-existed personally in heaven is taken too hastily. This is proven by Matthew 6:20 (‘Lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven’), 25:34 (‘Come, you blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world’), Col. 1:5 (‘the hope which is laid up for you in heaven about which you heard in the word of Truth, the Gospel’), and 1 Peter 1:4 (‘an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, which does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you’). Thus a reward can also be thought of as preexistent in heaven. Such a reward is destined for human beings and already held in store, to be awarded to them at the end of their life. So it is with heavenly glory which Jesus requests. He is not asking for a return to an earlier heavenly condition. Rather he asks God to give him now, at the end of his work as Messiah on earth (v. 4), the heavenly reward which God had appointed from eternity for him, as Messiah. As the Messiah and Son he knows he has been loved and foreordained by the Father from eternity (v. 24). Both John 8:58 and 17:5 are concerned with God’s predetermination of the Messiah” (cp. Teaching of Jesus, pp. 453-460).
Note: Things which are held in store as divine plans for the future are said to be “with God.” Thus in Job 10:13 Job says to God, “These things you have concealed in your heart: I know that this is with You” (see KJV). “He performs what is appointed for me, and many such decrees are with Him” (Job 23:14). Thus the glory which Jesus had “with God” was the glory which God had planned for him as the decreed reward for his Messianic work now completed. The promise of glory “pre-existed,” not Jesus himself. Note that this same glory which Jesus asked for has already been given to you (see John 17:22, 24). It was given to you and Jesus whom God loved before the foundation of the world (v. 24; cp. Eph. 1:4). You may therefore say that you now “have” that glory although it is glory in promise and prospect, to be gained at the Second Coming. Jesus had that same glory in prospect before the foundation of the world (John 17:5). [39. Anthony Buzzard, editor of Focus on the Kingdom in” Jesus’ Long-Form Birth Certificate Released by Luke and Matthew (and John), 2000 years ago, and Recorded in Scripture” (June 2011)]
Paul can say that we now “have” a new body with God in heaven (2 Cor. 5:1) — i.e., we have the promise of it, not in actuality. That body will be ours at our resurrection at the return of Christ. We now “have” it in anticipation and promise only. (“We have a building of God…” 2 Cor. 5:1). We do not in fact have it yet. This is the very Jewish language of promises decreed by God. They are absolutely certain to be fulfilled.
“For we know that if the tent of our earthly house, is destroyed, we have a building from Elohim, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens.” (2 Corinthians 5:1 The Scriptures 1998+)
We do not have our foundation in the dust, but we do come out from the dust and soil and shall return to the soil. As the first man was made from the dust of the earth. He came from the earth. The second man came from heaven because he was placed in the mother’s womb by the divine power of the One and Only God. In the man who wanted to die for all other men we have the treasure of the Good News.
“But Elohim gives it a body as He wishes, and to each seed a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds. And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the esteem of the heavenly is truly one, and the esteem of the earthly is another, one esteem of the sun, and another esteem of the moon, and another esteem of the stars – for star differs from star in esteem. So also is the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption; it is sown in disrespect, it is raised in esteem; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it has been written, “The first man Ad’am became a living being,” the last Ad’am a life-giving Spirit. The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, earthy; the second Man is the Master from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.” (1 Corinthians 15:38-48 The Scriptures 1998+)
“For Elohim, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts for the enlightening of the knowledge of the esteem of Elohim in the face of יהושע Messiah. And we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the excellence of the power might be of Elohim, and not of us – being hard pressed on every side,1 but not crushed; being perplexed, but not in despair; Footnote: 1See 1:8. being persecuted, but not forsaken; being thrown down, but not destroyed; always bearing about in the body the dying of the Master יהושע, that the life of יהושע might also be manifested in our body. For we, the living, are always delivered to death for the sake of יהושע, that the life of יהושע might also be manifested in our mortal flesh, so that death indeed is working in us, but the life in you. But having the same spirit of belief, according to what has been written, “I believed, therefore I spoke,” we also believe, therefore we also speak, knowing that He who raised up the Master יהושע shall also raise us up through יהושע, and shall present us with you. For all this is for your sake, so that favour, having spread through the many, would cause thanksgiving to overflow, unto the esteem of Elohim.” (2 Corinthians 4:6-15 The Scriptures 1998+)
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It was once fashionable in religious circles to say that Jesus Christ would never return to the earth. There are still plenty of professing Christians who believe that. But there are now many others who have come to believe that the Second Coming is a very important event.
Christadelphians have always taught that the Return of Jesus Christ to the earth is vital to the fulfillment of the purpose of God. This booklet reviews Bible teaching about the Second Coming, both the events that will lead up to that miracle and the reason for the Lord’s Return.
- Is the Trinity or pre-existence true? > How is Jesus Christ God?
Jesus, who came into existence as a man, is the firstborn of God’s new creation as Adam was the firstborn of the old creation. (1Corinthians 15:22: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive…. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made (by resurrection from the dead) a quickening spirit.”; Romans 5:19 “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”)
Christ’s genealogy through Mary in Luke is taken right back to Adam. (Luke 3:38: “Which was (the son) of Enos, which was (the son) of Seth, which was (the son) of Adam, which was (the son) of God.”) If Christ was to be the offspring of Abraham he had to come into being after Abraham. Abraham knew there was a saviour promised in Genesis 3:15.
- Conclusion in who is Jesus Christ?Jesus did not physically exist before he was born of Mary.
1Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained (Greek proginoskw foreknown) before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
It is the same word as that used of all who will be sons (and daughters) of God.Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow (Greek proginoskw foreknow), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The same word is used in Acts 26:5 (knew); Romans 11:2 (foreknew);2Peter 3:17 (know these things before).
His pre-existence being only in the sense that he existed in the plan and purpose of God before the creation of the world.
- Certainty in a troubled world
- Looking forward to the return of Jesus
- Why did Christ not reveal the exact time of his second coming?
- Summary on trinity
- Rapture exposed
- Jesus begotten Son of God #6 Anointed Son of God, Adam and Abraham (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #7 A matter of the Future (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #9 Two millennia ago conceived or begotten (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #11 Existence and Genesis Raising up (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #14 Beloved Preminent Son and Mediator originating in Mary (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #15 Son of God Originating in Mary (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #16 Prophet to be heard (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
- Jesus begotten Son of God #12 Son of God (christadelphians.wordpress.com)