Christ having glory

Posted on January 30, 2012. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Before Abraham, Begotten, Book of the Last Judgement, Glorification, Glory of God, Glory of Jesus, Glory of man, Gods Plan, Gods Word, Holy Spirit, Lamb of God, Pneuma, Pre-existence, Seed of Abraham, Seed of Eve, Virgin Mary |

In the previous article Jesus begotten Son of God #20 Before and After we mentioned John 17:5 where Jesus spoke of the glory which he “had” before the foundation of the world.

In the replies to that article we also pointed out to Gods Plan in which the Almighty Creator foresaw many things and gave the world the opportunity to develop partly according human wishes but having to become to an end according the wish of the Creator God the Father.

God, who has been for ever started off with His Word, which embedded His Plan. God’s thinking was brought to the people by the voice of the Holy Spirit (the Power of God) and by His messengers like the angels, prophets and priests.

It was God Himself who carried the Word, the ideas or thoughts as well as the expression of His thinking and wishing, in Himself because every thought every word, every expression, was part of Himself.

All fits marvelously well in the Cretion of God Almighty, in which the human is just a tiny spot of the universe, where we are able to find the glory of Jesus Christ the Saviour of us all.

In His thoughts the fulfilment of the Creation was foreseen and with it God loved what He wanted to make.

Being the Creator of everything and having all power He knows everything, but He leaves opportunities to change the ways of what could happen. Though He loves all those who want to follow Him and live according to His Law.

God conceived a plan and later brought it to fruition. In Gods Plan after the First Sin He took care there would come a solution to get rid of the consequences from the Fall, and out of the seed of the woman, the virgin Mary, would come the person, the Emmanuel Jesus Jeshua, who could save the the world, by bruising the tale of evil. this man would become from the tribe of the People of God, Israel in the lineage of Abraham and David. In case we want to belong to that Saviour, the Messiah, we can come seed of Abraham ourselves and be part of those people who shall be able to enter the Kingdom of God, because our names shall be in the Book of Life. (Revelation 17:8)

Therefore we should recognise that person who was foreseen in Gods Plan and was, as those who were written from the beginning, in the Book of Life, already sanctified by God before the first Adam, Cain, Seth, Methusalah, Noach, Sem, Terah, Abraham, Isaac, Samuel, David, Jacob and others where born. Out of Abraham would come a whole generation of which would later come Jesus, out of whom the New Generation would be born.

“I will put animosity between you and the woman, and between your descendant and her descendant; he will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel.”” (Genesis 3:15 CJB)
““the parable is this: the seed is god’s message.” (Luke 8:11 CJB)
“in other words, it is not the physical children who are children of god, but the children the promise refers to who are considered seed.” (Romans 9:8 CJB)
“also, as Yesha`yahu said earlier, “if \@ADONAI-Tzva’ot\@ had not left us a seed, we would have become like S’dom, we would have resembled ‘Amora.” {#Isa 1:9}” (Romans 9:29 CJB)
“now the promises were made to Avraham and to his seed. it doesn’t say, “and to seeds,” as if to many; on the contrary, it speaks of one – “and to your seed” {#Ge 12:7 13:15 17:7 24:7} – and this “one” is the Messiah.” (Galatians 3:16 CJB)

“also, if you belong to the Messiah, you are seed of Avraham and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:29 CJB)
“the glory which you have given to me, I have given to them; so that they may be one, just as we are one—” (John 17:22 CJB)

““father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am; so that they may see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24 CJB)

Jesus foreseen in the Plan of God both him and the disciples “had” a glory in promise and prospect. John writing his gospel in Jewish fashion speaks of a pre-existing Purpose, not a pre-existing second Person.

Jesus known before by the Creator as we are already known by Him, did as such exist in the Plan and in the Spirit of God before Abraham or David were born. God also knew of what Jesus would be capable of doing, and trusted that this human could bring the Promises made to the many people in previous ages to a good end.

As we are known by God since the foundation of the earth and our names are already written in the Book of the Last Judgement, we are mentioned in it with the deeds we shall commit as Jesus is also written in it with the works he did. But Jesus his works were special and received special attention from the Creator who also helped Jesus Christ to do all those miracles as sign that God was with him.

As such, knowing the will of Jesus to give his body for all sinners, God gave him glory from the beginning of times. Therefore that glory was already with God before Abraham was born, and Jesus could say “he was before Abraham” and “he had glory”. Though when he says he “had” that does not mean at the time of his saying his glory by God would have been finished. Other-while he would have said “the glory I did have”.

Probably the glory of God for Jesus can be found as well in that Book of life, which was only ‘written’, as it were, subsequent to the fall. From the fall, individuals have either been in it, or not. Prior to the fall, there was no need for such a record – there were only 2 individuals, and neither had sinned, but the many children of Adam and Eve which were going to fill the Paradise of God would already be in Gods head.

The Lamb of God foreseen from the beginning and spoken of in the Garden of Eden ” was not actually slain much before 33 CE. But his glory was praised by all the holy prophets who, through the Holy Spirit, preached of the coming of Messiah “in the flesh”. Jesus his coming “in the flesh” was the actual beginning of the work for which “the Lamb” indeed was slain.

As such God could know about the man from Nazareth who was going to go righteously in the footsteps of the ‘given directions by God’ to the people of Israel. As such He could already love Jesus before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

Jesus in John 17:5 speaks of the glory he ( “I” ) had with the Father before the world began.
The answer is in (#Joh17:4): “I have brought you GLORY on earth BY COMPLETING the work you gave me to do.”

“4 I have esteemed You on the earth, having accomplished the work You have given Me that I should do. 5 And now, esteem Me with Yourself, Father, with the esteem which I had with You before the world was. 6 I have revealed Your Name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have guarded Your Word. {(#Ps 138:2)}. 7 Now they have come to know that all You gave to Me, is from You. 8 Because the Words which You gave to Me, I have given to them. And they have received them, and have truly known that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I have been esteemed in them.” (John 17:4-10 The Scriptures 1998+)

Only by beginning his active live Jesus could bring Gods vision to the people. For God the time has come only at that moment that He can show to His people who the Blessed Anointed is who can save the world. It is also by the signs God gives to the world that we can get to know that that man Jesus, Jeshua, child of Joseph and Maria (Mary/Miriam) from Nazareth is the promised Messiah, where the world had to wait for such a long time. Know the great day dawned that can show the world who has His glory.

The first time Jesus receives glory is at his baptism where God declares this ‘son of man‘ to be His only and unique beloved son. As touching the election, Jesus Christ and his followers shall be the one loved for the Fathers’ sakes and be able to get eternal life.

““for god so loved the world that he gave his only and unique son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed.” (John 3:16 CJB)
“when you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the son of man comes.” (Matthew 10:23 CJB)
“and a voice from heaven said, “this is my son, whom I love; I am well pleased with him.”” (Matthew 3:17 CJB)

The moment Jesus begins his public life God can give him the glory which he would have had already in the thoughts of God, who knew this person could be the best one to fulfil the task foreseen at the fall, to make an end to death.

For the world it was important that God showed the world who the Saviour was, because other while the people would find it to difficult to recognise the promised Saviour or Messiah. In order for the people to know that Jesus is the man who is given to the people to do the task predicted in the earlier writings God gives His beloved son attributes which shall enable him to get people around him, to listen and to see the works God does by the hands of his son. Jesus also asks God now (at the time when he was living and speaking) to glorify him because he made his Father’s name known unto the men. The people Jesus is able to speak to in parables and with the clear words already brought by the prophets from earlier times, were not only Jews but could enhance people out of the world which were already belonging to God from the beginning of the world and written in the Book of Life as those who made the right choice in their life. “They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.” Says Christ about them. (John 17:6)

The saying that he had the glory before does not mean that he would not have it any more. When we say “yesterday I had a bottle of milk in the fridge”, it can be that the bottle is still standing in that fridge today and shall still be standing there tomorrow. In case the bottle would be empty and not be standing in the fridge any more we would say “I have had a bottle of milk standing in the fridge” .

Jesus had the glory and still has it, but now the people have to get to know it. And glory has to be brought unto him now (at that time) on earth. Without God showing the people that Jesus has the glory by his Father, people would not know it and would have it difficult to accept him, Jesus, as the promised one spoken of by many prophets before Roman times.

Jesus did not say “I did have” or “I did had”, which at that time would have meant he had lost that glory at a certain time, but now it can (and probably did) that he did not loose the glory of God = so glory of God has ever been over Jesus. Today the Glory of God is still with him. In the same context (vv. 22 and 24) that same glory has already “been given” (past tense) to disciples not yet born at the time when Jesus spoke.

““I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. now, father, glorify me alongside yourself. give me the same glory I had with you before the world existed. “I made your name known to the people you gave me out of the world. they were yours, you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. now they know that everything you have given me is from you, because the words you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them. they have really come to know that I came from you, and they have come to trust that you sent me. “I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given to me, because they are yours. indeed, all I have is yours, and all you have is mine, and in them I have been glorified.” (John 17:4-10 CJB)
“the glory which you have given to me, I have given to them; so that they may be one, just as we are one—” (John 17:22 CJB)
““father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am; so that they may see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24 CJB)

As the Great Architect, God can envisage the glory of the saints, the kingdom, and Christ before their actual existence. (See Acts 15:18; Matt. 25:34; John 17:5, 24; Eph. 1:4; Heb. 4:3).

“says \@ADONAI\@, who is doing these things.’ {#am 9:11-12} all this has been known for ages.” (Acts 15:18 CJB)
““then the king will say to those on his right, ‘come, you whom my father has blessed, take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.” (Matthew 25:34 CJB)
“now, father, glorify me alongside yourself. give me the same glory I had with you before the world existed.” (John 17:5 CJB)
“in the Messiah he chose us in love before the creation of the universe to be holy and without defect in his presence.” (Ephesians 1:4 CJB)
“for it is we who have trusted who enter the rest. it is just as he said, “and in my anger, I swore that they would not enter my rest.” {#Ps 95:11} he swore this even though his works have been in existence since the founding of the universe.” (Hebrews 4:3 CJB)

“And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” (John 17:5 NIV)
“”Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24 NIV)
“that have been known for ages. {17,18 Some manuscripts things’—18 known to the Lord for ages is his work}” (Acts 15:18 NIV)
“”Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.” (Matthew 25:34 NIV)
“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love” (Ephesians 1:4 NIV)
“Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” {Psalm 95:11; also in verse 5} And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world.” (Hebrews 4:3 NIV)

As Jesus is glorified by his Father God the Almighty, the Holy Spirit or Pneuma is on him. By becoming like Christ we ourselves also can receive the Holy Spirit or Pneuma of God and receive Gods glory.

Out of himself Jesus was unable to do anything. Therefore he needed the glory of God to be with him. He needed God’s Spirit to be with him so that he could make the right decisions. Jesus was aware he needed this glory of his Father and had no desire to do what was pleasing to himself? For him it was clear that he wanted only to do what was pleasing to Him who had sent him. (John 5:30). He knew he was the special product from his Father in heaven. The people had to get to know now this prophet given from among Gods people.

By the glorification of Jesus by God the voice of the Most High could come to the ears of those who wanted to listen and hear. This prophet from among ourselves (the common people), like you, was put God words in his mouth, and this prophet and Master Teacher said to them who listened or still want to listen whatever God gave him orders to say. And whoever does not give ear to Gods words, which came to our fathers through the prophets, in different parts and in different ways, which Jesus said in God’s name, will be responsible to to the Creator of all things, Jehovah God. (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Hebrews 1:1)

This man of God Jeshua or Jesus of Nazareth, who, being the outshining of his glory, the true image of his substance, supporting all things by the word of his power, having given himself as an offering making clean from sins, took his seat at the right hand of God in heaven;” He always had the glory of God and was given the Holy Spirit, so that he went about doing good and making well all who were troubled by evil spirits, for God was with him. (Hebrews 1:3 ; Acts 10:38)

The man who had the glory by God from the beginning, when he was under the people on this earth, had to be recognised as the ‘man of God’ and as the one who could bring all those things which are in the writings of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms about him, to be put into effect. (Luke 24:44)

After Jesus , servant by the purpose of God, died he was glorified even more by being lifted up to the right hand of God, and having the Father’s word that the Holy Spirit would come, he had sent this thing, which the chosen ones could see and have knowledge of. (Acts 2:33 ) By that glorification of Jesus we too can now become servants by the purpose of God to give effect to the word of God.

“I can’t do a thing on my own. as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is right; because I don’t seek my own desire, but the desire of the one who sent me.” (John 5:30 CJB)
“for I have come down from heaven to do not my own will but the will of the one who sent me.” (John 6:38 CJB)
““\@ADONAI\@ will raise up for you a prophet like me from among yourselves, from your own kinsmen. you are to pay attention to him, just as when you were assembled at Horev and requested \@ADONAI\@ your god, ‘don’t let me hear the voice of \@ADONAI\@ my god any more, or let me see this great fire ever again; if I do, I will die!’ on that occasion \@ADONAI\@ said to me, ‘they are right in what they are saying. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their kinsmen. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I order him. whoever doesn’t listen to my words, which he will speak in my name, will have to account for himself to me.” (Deuteronomy 18:15-19 CJB)
“in days gone by, god spoke in many and varied ways to the fathers through the prophets.” (Hebrews 1:1 CJB)
“this son is the radiance of the \@sh’khinah\@, the very expression of god’s essence, upholding all that exists by his powerful word; and after he had, through himself, made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of \@haG’dulah baM’romim\@. {#Ps 110:1}” (Hebrews 1:3 CJB)
“how god anointed Yeshua from Natzeret with the \@Ruach\@ \@haKodesh\@ and with power; how Yeshua went about doing good and healing all the people oppressed by the adversary, because god was with him.” (Acts 10:38 CJB)

“Yeshua said to them, “this is what I meant when I was still with you and told you that everything written about me in the \@torah\@ of Moshe, the prophets and the psalms had to be fulfilled.”” (Luke 24:44 CJB)

““moreover, he has been exalted to the right hand of god; has received from the father what he promised, namely, the \@Ruach haKodesh\@; and has poured out this gift, which you are both seeing and hearing.” (Acts 2:33 CJB)
“I became a servant of the good news because god gave me this work to do for your benefit. the work is to make fully known the message from god,” (Colossians 1:25 CJB)

God has revealed his glory in the Word became Flesh and dwelt among us, the face of Christ. This revelation of glory contains within it the seeds of our mission. We, with unveiled faces, should reflect the glory of the Most High, Creator of all things. In order for our faces, that is our persons, to reflect to the world His glory, our faces must be turned to Christ. Not a false Christ, not an idol of our own creation or someone else’s creation, which has no glory.

We are created in the image of God: male and female. Christ, himself being an image of God, honours this creation by celebrating a marriage, revealing the emptiness of sinful humanity but also the re-creative power and glory of God.

God by giving his glory to Jesus and showing His glory to Jesus when Jesus was on earth, makes it clear for us that he is the one who totally deserves full glory of God. By the Word became flesh, God’s Plan having become human reality, we have seen his glory. Christ’s time had and has come. The glory of Christ Jesus shall also still be coming. He will come in glory. He saves the best for last. Let us therefore look out for this majestic glory, hopefully to come soon.

JOHN 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

PROBLEM: If Christ had glory with God before the world was, then obviously it is argued he must have existed before his birth on earth.

SOLUTION*:

1. Stress is often placed on Jesus’ statement that he had glory with the Father. The J.W.’s in their New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures translate this verse as follows: “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.” But the Greek preposition “parà” translated “with” in the A.V. and “alongside” in the N.W.T. also occurs in John 1:6: “There was a man sent from {Greek: parà} God, whose name was John.” If the preposition in John 17:5 requires the literal pre-existence of Christ, then likewise it requires the literal pre-existence of John the Baptist. It is interesting that the N.W.T. inconsistently translates John 1:6 as follows: “There arose a man that was sent forth as a representative of God: his name was John.” There is no hint of pre-existence here.

2. How could Jesus have glory with his Father “before the world was” if he did not literally pre-exist? An illustration is helpful: An architect sees and knows the beautiful details of his proposed construction before the site is prepared, or the foundation-stone laid. But God is the great Architect and in His divine plan, Christ was “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8)—the chief cornerstone “foreordained before the foundation of the world”. (1 Peter 1:20). The building will duly be fitly framed together (Eph. 2:21) to constitute its part in the “kingdom prepared … from the foundation of the world.” (Matt. 25:34). Christ was “foreordained”, but not formed until born of the virgin Mary in the days of Herod the king. Likewise, the glory he had with his Father was in the divine plan of the great Architect. It was the subject of prophetic testimony “when it {the Spirit of Christ} testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:11 cf. John 12:41).

3.      Scripture speaks as if others pre-existed, as well as Christ. Consider the following:
a.      Of believers, Paul wrote:
i.      “Whom he did foreknow.” (Rom. 8:29).
ii.      “He had afore prepared {note the past tense} unto glory.” (Rom. 9:23 cf. 2 Tim. 1:9).
iii.      “He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” (Eph. 1:4).
b.      Of Jeremiah, the LORD said: “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” (Jer. 1:5).

But who would contend for the pre-existence of Jeremiah and other believers because the language employed states that God knew them before they were born? Similarly, the language of John 17:5 must be understood in terms of this background. Unless the principle is recognized that God “calleth those things which be not as though they were” (Rom. 4:17), confusion will result in Biblical interpretation, as it does with the wrested pre-existence interpretation given to this passage in John’s gospel.

4. The context is sufficiently clear that Christ is not “Very God”. His power and authority are derived, not innate: “As thou hast given him {Christ} power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.” (John 17:2).

* Wrested Scriptures [computer files. 1997 (electronic ed.). Northridge, CA: The Christadelphian.

Jesus begotten Son of God #20 Before and After

Posted on January 26, 2012. Filed under: Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: 2° Adam, Abraham, Adam, Before Abraham, God, God Son, God the Father, Jesus, John, Messiah, Pre-existence, Second Coming, Son of God |

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #19 Compromising fact

The Anointed begotten Son of God

44. Before

““And now, esteem Me with Yourself, Father, with the esteem which I had with You before the world was.” (John 17:5 The Scriptures 1998+)

Prologue of the gospel of St. John from the Clementine Vulgate, edited by P. Michael Hetzenauer, O.M.Cap. Biblia Sacra, vol. V, Regensburg: Verlag Friedrich Pustet, 1922, p. 197.

In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which he “had” before the foundation of the world. But in the same context (vv. 22 and 24) that same glory has already “been given” (past tense) to disciples not yet born at the time when Jesus spoke.

“And the esteem which You gave Me I have given them, so that they might be one as We are one, “ (John 17:22 The Scriptures 1998+)

““Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, might be with Me where I am, so that they see My esteem which You have given Me, because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.” (John 17:24 The Scriptures 1998+)

It is clear then that the glory which both Jesus and the disciples “had” is a glory in promise and prospect. Jesus thus prays to have conferred on him at his ascension the glory which God had undertaken to give him from the foundation of the world. John speaks in Jewish fashion of a pre-existing Purpose, not a pre-existing second Person. Our point was well expressed by a distinguished Lutheran New Testament professor, H.H. Wendt (The System of Christian Teaching, 1907):

“It is clear that John 8:58 [‘Before Abraham was I am’] and 17:5 do not speak of a real pre-existence of Christ. We must not treat these verses in isolation, but understand them in their context.

“The saying in John 8:58, ‘Before Abraham came to be, I am’ was prompted by the fact that Jesus’ opponents had countered his remark in v. 51 by saying that Jesus was not greater than Abraham or the prophets (v. 52). As the Messiah commissioned by God Jesus is conscious of being in fact superior to Abraham and the prophets. For this reason he replies (according to the intervening words, v. 54ff) that Abraham had ‘seen his day,’ i.e., the entrance of Jesus on his historical ministry, and ‘had rejoiced to see’ that day. And Jesus strengthens his argument by adding the statement, which sounded strange to the Jews, that he had even been ‘before Abraham’ (v. 58). This last saying must be understood in connection with v. 56. Jesus speaks in vv. 55, 56 and 58 as if his present ministry on earth stretches back to the time of Abraham and even before. His sayings were perceived by the Jews in this sense and rejected as nonsense. But Jesus obviously did not (in v. 56) mean that Abraham had actually experienced Jesus’ appearance on earth and seen it literally. Jesus was referring to Abraham’s spiritual vision of his appearance on earth, by which Abraham, at the birth of Isaac, had foreseen at the same time the promised Messiah, and had rejoiced at the future prospect of the greater one (the Messiah) who would be Israel’s descendant. Jesus’ reference to his existence before Abraham’s birth must be understood in the same sense. There is no sudden heavenly pre-existence of the Messiah here: the reference is again obviously to his earthly existence. And this earthly existence is precisely the existence of the Messiah. As such, it was not only present in Abraham’s mind, but even before his time, as the subject of God’s foreordination and foresight. The sort of pre-existence Jesus has in mind is ‘ideal’ [in the world of ideas and plans]. In accordance with this consciousness of being the Messiah preordained from the beginning, Jesus can indeed make the claim to be greater than Abraham and the prophets.

“In John 17:5 Jesus asks the Father to give him now the heavenly glory which he had with the Father before the world was. The conclusion that because Jesus possessed a pre-existent glory in heaven he must also have pre-existed personally in heaven is taken too hastily. This is proven by Matthew 6:20 (‘Lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven’), 25:34 (‘Come, you blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world’), Col. 1:5 (‘the hope which is laid up for you in heaven about which you heard in the word of Truth, the Gospel’), and 1 Peter 1:4 (‘an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, which does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you’). Thus a reward can also be thought of as preexistent in heaven. Such a reward is destined for human beings and already held in store, to be awarded to them at the end of their life. So it is with heavenly glory which Jesus requests. He is not asking for a return to an earlier heavenly condition. Rather he asks God to give him now, at the end of his work as Messiah on earth (v. 4), the heavenly reward which God had appointed from eternity for him, as Messiah. As the Messiah and Son he knows he has been loved and foreordained by the Father from eternity (v. 24). Both John 8:58 and 17:5 are concerned with God’s predetermination of the Messiah” (cp. Teaching of Jesus, pp. 453-460).

Note: Things which are held in store as divine plans for the future are said to be “with God.” Thus in Job 10:13 Job says to God, “These things you have concealed in your heart: I know that this is with You” (see KJV). “He performs what is appointed for me, and many such decrees are with Him” (Job 23:14). Thus the glory which Jesus had “with God” was the glory which God had planned for him as the decreed reward for his Messianic work now completed. The promise of glory “pre-existed,” not Jesus himself. Note that this same glory which Jesus asked for has already been given to you (see John 17:22, 24). It was given to you and Jesus whom God loved before the foundation of the world (v. 24; cp. Eph. 1:4). You may therefore say that you now “have” that glory although it is glory in promise and prospect, to be gained at the Second Coming. Jesus had that same glory in prospect before the foundation of the world (John 17:5). [39. Anthony Buzzard, editor of Focus on the Kingdom in” Jesus' Long-Form Birth Certificate Released by Luke and Matthew (and John), 2000 years ago, and Recorded in Scripture” (June 2011)]

45. After

Paul can say that we now “have” a new body with God in heaven (2 Cor. 5:1) — i.e., we have the promise of it, not in actuality. That body will be ours at our resurrection at the return of Christ. We now “have” it in anticipation and promise only. (“We have a building of God…” 2 Cor. 5:1). We do not in fact have it yet. This is the very Jewish language of promises decreed by God. They are absolutely certain to be fulfilled.

“For we know that if the tent of our earthly house, is destroyed, we have a building from Elohim, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens.” (2 Corinthians 5:1 The Scriptures 1998+)

We do not have our foundation in the dust, but we do come out from the dust and soil and shall return to the soil. As the first man was made from the dust of the earth. He came from the earth. The second man came from heaven because he was placed in the mother’s womb by the divine power of the One and Only God. In the man who wanted to die for all other men we have the treasure of the Good News.

“But Elohim gives it a body as He wishes, and to each seed a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds. And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the esteem of the heavenly is truly one, and the esteem of the earthly is another, one esteem of the sun, and another esteem of the moon, and another esteem of the stars – for star differs from star in esteem. So also is the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption; it is sown in disrespect, it is raised in esteem; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it has been written, “The first man Ad’am became a living being,” the last Ad’am a life-giving Spirit. The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, earthy; the second Man is the Master from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.” (1 Corinthians 15:38-48 The Scriptures 1998+)

Adcension of Christ Jesus, the son of God - A page from the Gospel Lectionary portion of the Bamberg Apocalypse (Bamberg, Staatsbibliothek, MS A. II. 42)

“For Elohim, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts for the enlightening of the knowledge of the esteem of Elohim in the face of יהושע Messiah. And we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the excellence of the power might be of Elohim, and not of us – being hard pressed on every side,1 but not crushed; being perplexed, but not in despair; Footnote: 1See 1:8. being persecuted, but not forsaken; being thrown down, but not destroyed; always bearing about in the body the dying of the Master יהושע, that the life of יהושע might also be manifested in our body. For we, the living, are always delivered to death for the sake of יהושע, that the life of יהושע might also be manifested in our mortal flesh, so that death indeed is working in us, but the life in you. But having the same spirit of belief, according to what has been written, “I believed, therefore I spoke,” we also believe, therefore we also speak, knowing that He who raised up the Master יהושע shall also raise us up through יהושע, and shall present us with you. For all this is for your sake, so that favour, having spread through the many, would cause thanksgiving to overflow, unto the esteem of Elohim.” (2 Corinthians 4:6-15 The Scriptures 1998+)

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Please do also find Related articles:

Secret or public return of Jesus
Preexistence in the Divine purpose and Trinity
Pre-existence
Pre-existence of Christ
The Nature of Preexistence in the New Testament
Some issues relating to the pre-existence of Christ
Around pre-existence of Christ
Pre-existence of Christ #1 Intro #1 Athanasian Creed
Da Vinci Code: Was Jesus Human or Divine?
The Countdown to Jesus his return has begun. But Are you ready?
The return of Christ to the earth – soon!: PDF Christ is Coming
Bible Teaching About His Return
New Testament Teaching
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The Nation of Sign
The “Rapture”
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Take Heed to Yourselves
It was once fashionable in religious circles to say that Jesus Christ would never return to the earth. There are still plenty of professing Christians who believe that. But there are now many others who have come to believe that the Second Coming is a very important event.
Christadelphians have always taught that the Return of Jesus Christ to the earth is vital to the fulfillment of the purpose of God. This booklet reviews Bible teaching about the Second Coming, both the events that will lead up to that miracle and the reason for the Lord’s Return.
Is the Trinity or pre-existence true? > How is Jesus Christ God?
Jesus, who came into existence as a man, is the firstborn of God’s new creation as Adam was the firstborn of the old creation. (1Corinthians 15:22: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive…. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made (by resurrection from the dead) a quickening spirit.”; Romans 5:19 “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”)
Christ’s genealogy through Mary in Luke is taken right back to Adam. (Luke 3:38: “Which was (the son) of Enos, which was (the son) of Seth, which was (the son) of Adam, which was (the son) of God.”) If Christ was to be the offspring of Abraham he had to come into being after Abraham. Abraham knew there was a saviour promised in Genesis 3:15.
Conclusion in who is Jesus Christ?Jesus did not physically exist before he was born of Mary.
1Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained (Greek proginoskw foreknown) before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
It is the same word as that used of all who will be sons (and daughters) of God.Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow (Greek proginoskw foreknow), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The same word is used in Acts 26:5 (knew); Romans 11:2 (foreknew);2Peter 3:17 (know these things before).

His pre-existence being only in the sense that he existed in the plan and purpose of God before the creation of the world.
Certainty in a troubled world
Looking forward to the return of Jesus
Why did Christ not reveal the exact time of his second coming?
Summary on trinity
Rapture exposed

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To sign up for the course, go to www.thisisyourbible.com and click on the “Students” tab on the left of the screen. Then scroll down and click on the blue bar which says “Sign up as a student today!” Fill in the registration form and submit it. If you sign up for the free online Bible course, you will be able to start immediately.

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Jesus begotten Son of God #6 Anointed Son of God, Adam and Abraham (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #7 A matter of the Future (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #9 Two millennia ago conceived or begotten (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #11 Existence and Genesis Raising up (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #14 Beloved Preminent Son and Mediator originating in Mary (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #15 Son of God Originating in Mary (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #16 Prophet to be heard (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #12 Son of God (christadelphians.wordpress.com)

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Jesus begotten Son of God #18 Believing in inhuman or human person

Posted on January 16, 2012. Filed under: Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Begotten, Believe, Divinity, Human, Inhuman, Pre-existence |

The Anointed begotten Son of God

41. What to believe

Do we really believe the words of the Bible or has our tradition made it difficult to hear the text of Scripture without the interfering voices of later tradition? There is the constant danger for us believers that the words of the Bible can be drowned out by the clamorous and sometimes threatening words of ecclesiastical teaching, which mostly goes unexamined. At stake here is the whole nature of the Saviour. Is he really a human being, or did he have the benefit of billions of years of conscious existence before deciding to become a man? Is this latter picture anything more than a legendary addition to Apostolic faith?

Titlepage of the New Testament section of a German Luther Bible, printed in 1769.

The Son of God, Messiah and Saviour, is defined in precise theological terms by Gabriel, laying the foundation of the whole New Testament and fulfilling the promises of the Old.

Christians should unite around that clear portrait of Jesus presented by Gabriel. Jesus is the Son of God on one basis only, his miraculous coming into existence in Mary’s womb. This was God’s creative act, initiating His new creation and providing the model of Christian Sonship for us all. Though obviously we are not, like Jesus, brought into existence supernaturally, nevertheless we, like him, are to receive a supernatural birth from spirit by being born again under the influence of the Gospel (Galatians 3:2; Ephesians 1:13, 14; Romans 10:17; Matthew 13:19; Luke 8:11, 12; 1 Peter 1:23-25; James 1:18).

The “divine” nature of Jesus has no other foundation than the stupendous miracle granted to Mary and to humanity. A Jesus who claims to be Son of God for any other reason should be rejected. A natural son of Joseph cannot qualify as the Messiah, nor can a person whose existence did not originate in his mother’s womb by a divine creative miracle.

42. Inhuman

From chapter 31 and 32 we could see that we do not have an incarnation from God into a human body, called Jesus, in the human Mary. And that coming out of the womb, coming into birth we got a human body which grew up, by eating and drinking, to come to an end by being put on the tree or on a piece of wood, afterwards he was liberated from that death by his Father.

“The God of our fathers has raised up Jesus, whom you slew, hanging him on a tree:” (Acts 5:30 LO) “But God raised him up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by it.” (Acts 2:24 Noyes)

It was a man, born out of a woman, who really could feel pain and horror and died in agony. He was put in the grave or sepulchre and in a miraculous way taken out of it. Nobody can kill God but Jesus was killed and descended into the earth or ‘hell’, which is the grave . [38. Sjeool, Sheol, Hades, Hell = sepulchre or Grave. “he foreseeing [this] spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.” (Acts 2:31 ASV)
“he was speaking in advance about the resurrection of the Messiah, that it was he who was not abandoned in sh’ol and whose flesh did not see decay.” (Acts 2:31 CJB)
“he seeing this before, spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither did his flesh see corruption.” (Acts 2:31 Webster)]

“But when the completion of the time came, Elohim sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under Torah,” (Galatians 4:4 The Scriptures 1998+)
““For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the great fish, so shall the Son of Ad’am be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” (Matthew 12:40 The Scriptures 1998+)

“Then He warned His taught ones that they should say to no one that He is יהושע the Messiah. From that time יהושע began to show to His taught ones that it was necessary for Him to go to Yerushalayim, and to suffer much from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and to be raised again the third day.” (Matthew 16:20-21 The Scriptures 1998+)

“And when the captain and those with him, who were guarding יהושע, saw the earthquake and all that took place, they feared exceedingly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of Elohim!” And many women who followed יהושע from Galil, attending Him, were there, watching from a distance, among whom were Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Yaʽaqob’ and Yosĕph, and the mother of Zab’dai’s sons. And when evening came, there came a rich man from Ramathayim, named Yosĕph, who himself had also become a taught one of יהושע. He went to Pilate and asked for the body of יהושע. Then Pilate commanded the body to be given. And having taken the body, Yosĕph wrapped it in clean linen, and laid it in his new tomb which he had hewn out of the rock. And he rolled a large stone against the door of the tomb, and went away. And Miryam from Maḡdala was there, and the other Miryam, sitting opposite the tomb. On the next day, which was after the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate, saying, “Master, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I am raised.’ “Command, then, that the tomb be safeguarded until the third day, lest His taught ones come by night and steal Him away, and should say to the people, ‘He was raised from the dead.’ And the last deception shall be worse than the first.” So Pilate said to them, “You have a watch, go, safeguard it as you know how.” And they went and safeguarded the tomb, sealing the stone and setting the watch.” (Matthew 27:54-66 The Scriptures 1998+)

“He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” (Acts 2:31 AVRLE)
“foreseeing this he spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah, that His being was neither left in the grave, nor did His flesh see corruption. (Acts 2:31 The Scriptures 1998+)
“And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek יהושע who was impaled. “He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay.” (Matthew 28:5-6 The Scriptures 1998+)

You could call it inhuman that Jesus his flesh did not see corruption, but that happened by the force of God again. As he was given life by God the first time and it was taken out by humans, God gave him life again as an example what can happen to us as well. All humans shall be able to become resurrected in the hope of their fellow brother or fellow human Christ Jesus.

The constitution of Jesus as the unique Son of God is given its basis by the superb words of Gabriel in Luke 1:35. This definition of the Messiah, Son of God, should be allowed to stand.

It was later, post-biblical tradition which interfered with the definitive, revealing statement of Gabriel. Once Jesus was turned into a pre-existing Son of God who gave up one conscious existence for another, Christology immediately became problematic (as witnessed by the centuries of disputes, excommunications, and fierce dogmatic decisions of Church Councils). A Son of God who is already Son of God before his conception in his mother is a personage essentially non-human. Under that revised scheme what came into existence in Mary was not the Son of God at all, but a created human nature added to an already existing Person. But Gabriel describes the creation of the Son of God himself, not the creation of a human nature added to an already existing Son. The two models are quite different.
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Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #17 Adam, Eve, Mary and Christianity’s central figure

To be continued: 43. A compromising fact

Who is Jesus Christ? #1 What does the Bible say the only man who is called “the Last Adam” , the only man who was ever born of a virgin

Preexistence in the Divine purpose and Trinity

Around pre-existence of Christ

Pre-existence of Christ #1 Intro #1 Athanasian Creed

Jesus as fully human

Christ begotten through the power of the Holy Spirit

Da Vinci Code: Was Jesus Human or Divine?

Jesus son of God Six simple words. However, they are much more than simple words

Christian thought: acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God

“Son of God” – “God the Son”

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Jesus begotten Son of God #4 Promised Prophet and Saviour (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #8 Found Divinely Created not Incarnated (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #11 Existence and Genesis Raising up (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #12 Son of God (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #14 Beloved Preminent Son and Mediator originating in Mary (christadelphians.wordpress.com)

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Jesus begotten Son of God #17 Adam, Eve, Mary and Christianity’s central figure

Posted on January 14, 2012. Filed under: Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: 2° Adam, Adam, Begotten, God Son, Incarnation, Jesus, Mary, New Testament, Pre-existence, Son of God, Sonship |

Jesus begotten son of God

39. Adam and Eve, Mary and Jesus

As the ‘mannin’ Eve, who was created after the image of God, became the first mother of the 1st worldgeneration, Mary was chosen to be the mother of the 2nd Adam, who was going to be the 1st of the New Generation (The third in a row). [35. The 2nd one having started after the flood.] This new child, or the child of the new beginning (Genesis) had to come directly from God to be likewise the 1st Adam and because it would have been unfair to start off from a person who would only come from fragile humans who , because of the heridarity of defects, should have to many problems to choose not to sin. The new world had to be able to start without a bug, so giving humanity more chances to succeed the Creator took again a woman, who at first [36. Eve in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3)] had showed a deceit, giving her again the chance to bring up good children.

The birth of Christ Jesus - La Nativité - 1490 Lorenzo Costa (1460–1535) Museum of Fine Arts of Lyon

The prophet promised by Isaiah and the long expected by others was Jesus with his royal Sonship that is established by his miraculous begetting. That of the Christians originates with their rebirth or regeneration.

40. Identity and nature of Christianity’s central figure

As the centre of a new ecumenism the simple truth about the identity and nature of Christianity’s central figure has the backing of those many scholars who know well that neither Luke nor Matthew show any sign of believing in a pre-human eternal Son of God of the post-biblical creeds. Raymond Brown’s magisterial treatment of the birth narratives in his Birth of the Messiah makes a major point of the fact that neither Matthew nor Luke believed in the Incarnation of a pre-human, prehistoric Son.

Commenting on Luke 1:35, “therefore,” Raymond Brown says, “of the nine times dio kai occurs in the New Testament, three are in Luke/Acts. It involves a certain causality and Lyonnet (in his L’Annonciation, 61.6) points out that this has embarrassed many orthodox theologians since in pre-existence Christology a conception by the holy spirit in Mary’s womb does not bring about the existence of God’s son. Luke is seemingly unaware of such a Christology; conception is causally related to divine Sonship for him…And so I cannot follow those theologians who try to avoid the causal connotation in the ‘therefore’ which begins this line, by arguing that for Luke the conception of the child does not bring the Son of God into being.” Raymond Brown insists that according to Luke, “We are dealing with the begetting of God’s Son in the womb of Mary through God’s creative spirit.” [37. The Birth of the Messiah, London: Geoffrey Chapman, 1977, pp. 291, 312.]

“Orthodoxy” derived from later Church Councils has to turn a blind eye to Gabriel’s definition of the Son of God. It contradicted Gabriel by denying that the conception of Jesus brought about his existence as Son of God.

This is a very serious issue. Is the Jesus of the creeds, the Jesus under whose umbrella churches gather, really the created Son authorized by Scripture in Luke 1:35 and Matthew 1:18, 20?

Again, the exhaustive work of Brown on the birth narratives brings us the important fact that the Jesus of the Gospels is quite unlike the “eternally begotten” Son of the later creeds:
“Matthew and Luke press [the question of Jesus’ identity] back to Jesus’ conception. In the commentary I shall stress that Matthew and Luke show no knowledge of pre-existence; seemingly for them the conception was the becoming (begetting) of God’s Son (p. 31).”

“The fact that Matthew can speak of Jesus as ‘begotten’ (passive of gennan) suggests that for him the conception through the agency of the holy spirit is the becoming of God’s Son. [In Matthew’s and Luke’s ‘conception Christology’] God’s creative action in the conception of Jesus begets Jesus as God’s Son…There is no suggestion of an Incarnation whereby a figure who was previously with God takes on flesh. For pre-existence Christology [Incarnation], the conception of Jesus is the beginning of an earthly career but not the begetting of God’s Son. [Later] the virginal conception was no longer seen as the begetting of God’s Son, but as the incarnation of God’s Son, and that became orthodox Christian doctrine. This thought process is probably already at work at the beginning of the second century” (pp. 140-142).

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #16 Prophet to be heard

To be continued: 41. What to believe + 42. Inhuman

Who is Jesus Christ? #1 What does the Bible say the only man who is called “the Last Adam” , the only man who was ever born of a virgin

Preexistence in the Divine purpose and Trinity

Around pre-existence of Christ

Pre-existence of Christ #1 Intro #1 Athanasian Creed

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Luke 22:66-71 (biblestudy123.wordpress.com)
Son of man seated at the right hand
Jesus begotten Son of God #6 Anointed Son of God, Adam and Abraham (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #8 Found Divinely Created not Incarnated (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #11 Existence and Genesis Raising up (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #14 Beloved Preminent Son and Mediator originating in Mary (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #15 Son of God Originating in Mary (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #16 Prophet to be heard (christadelphians.wordpress.com)

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Jesus begotten Son of God #15 Son of God Originating in Mary

Posted on January 4, 2012. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Begotten, God, God Son, Jesus, Pre-existence, Son of God, Trinitarianism |

The Anointed begotten Son of God

36. Originating in Mary

From the nativity story to the story of the beginning of Jesus ‘public life we see the line of the human link and often we also shall get to see the fragility of the Master Teacher, who sometimes got tired of the human crowd around him.

The whole story is ruined if another dimension is added to the story, namely that the Son of God was already a pre-existing member of an eternal Trinity. Gabriel has carefully defined the nature of Jesus’ Sonship and his words exclude any origin other than a supernatural origin in Mary.

Gabriel’s Jesus, Son of God — the biblical Son — originates in Mary. He is conceived and begotten by miracle. In pre-existence Christology, the main plank of Trinitarianism, a conception/begetting in Mary’s womb does not bring about the existence of God’s Son. According to Gabriel it does. Neither Gabriel nor Luke could possibly have been Trinitarians.

No need for centuries of complex wrangling over words. All that is required is belief of the angelic communication: “For this reason precisely (dio kai) — the creative miracle of God through His divine power — the child will be Son of God.” For no other reason, for this reason only. (Note the very watered-down rendering of the NIV, “so the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.”)

37. Son of the Most High

Jesus as Son of God is “the Son of the Most High”.

“He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David.” (Luke 1:32 Complete Apostles’ Bible)

Clearly there is also written in the future sense. In case Jesus already existed, being God, he would be the Most High and therefore would be more than Great. God has been sitting on the throne form the beginning and in case Jesus was God he would have already been sitting on the throne as well and would have had already the throne of David. He also would not have David as his forefather, because David would be a great great-grandson.(30)

We also should question “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God?”

“And when he saw יהושע, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, “What have I to do with You, יהושע, Son of the Most High Elohim? I beg You, do not torture me!”” (Luke 8:28 The Scriptures 1998+)

Though we may also be children of God by the grace of Jesus Christ, heirs’ heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, but we shall have to work very hard to become like Christ, as is one of our tasks given by the Master Teacher and his disciples. We as Christ Jesus shall have to come to live according the Spirit, in the spirit instead of in the flesh, as Jesus was in the Spirit and from the Spirit. In such a way only by submitting to God’s law, not being in the flesh we shall be able to please God. As the Spirit of Goddwelled in Jesus it should also dwell in us. And being led by the Spirit of God we are sons of God in the same way that Jesus is son of God. The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. (31)

“For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the matters of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the matters of the Spirit. For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace. Because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards Elohim, for it does not subject itself1 to the Torah of Elohim2, neither indeed is it able, {Footnotes: 1Or does not obey. 2John 15:5, 1 John 4:4, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:18.} and those who are in the flesh are unable to please Elohim. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Messiah, this one is not His. And if Messiah is in you, the body is truly dead on account of sin, but the Spirit is life on account of righteousness. And if the Spirit of Him who raised יהושע from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Messiah from the dead shall also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit dwelling in you. So then, brothers, we are not debtors to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of Elohim, these are sons of Elohim. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of Elohim, and if children, also heirs – truly heirs of Elohim, and co-heirs with Messiah, if indeed we suffer with Him, in order that we also be exalted together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the esteem that is to be revealed in us. For the intense longing1 of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of Elohim. {Footnote: 1Lit. anxiously looking with outstretched head.} For the creation was subjected to futility, not from choice, but because of Him who subjected it, in anticipation, that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage to corruption into the esteemed freedom of the children of Elohim.” (Romans 8:5-21 The Scriptures 1998+)

Let us therefore know and understand, not walking in darkness but recognize the person to whom Jesus prayed and whom he adored and called Him his Father. As David and Jesus said that the Creator of all things was their Father, we also should say: “you are Elohim, and sons of the Supreme are all of you.” Yet we know we shall die like common humanity, most likely in a better way than Jesus died. Though Jesus never did do anything wrong but poor us we do know we are too weak to be totally like Christ, without any fault, with whom we have to be in unity.

“They do not know, nor do they understand, They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the Most High. “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.” “ (Psalms 82:5-7 The Scriptures 1998+)

“My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world. And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands.1{Footnote: 1See 3:6}. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Elohim has been perfected1 in him. By this we know that we are in Him.2 {Footnotes: 1Gen. 17:1, Ps. 119:1, Mt. 5:48. 2See 3:24.} The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.1 {Footnote: 1See v. 24.} (1 John 2:1-7 The Scriptures 1998+)

Note (30): But see who is the great-grandson: “He (Jesus) will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of his forefather David.” (Luke 1:32 ISV)

(31): “The spirit itself is testifying together with our spirit that we are children of God.” (Romans 8:16 CLV)

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #14 Beloved Preminent Son and Mediator originating in Mary

To be continued: The Prophet to be heard

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Jesus begotten Son of God #7 A matter of the Future (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #8 Found Divinely Created not Incarnated (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #9 Two millennia ago conceived or begotten (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #12 Son of God (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #14 Beloved Preminent Son and Mediator originating in Mary (christadelphians.wordpress.com)

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Jesus begotten Son of God #14 Beloved Preminent Son and Mediator originating in Mary

Posted on December 29, 2011. Filed under: Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Begotten, Firstborn, Mary, Mediator, Messiah, Nativity Story, Pre-existence, Son of God, Trinitarianism, Virgin Mary |

Previously we saw how Jesus came into life by becoming implanted into the womb, special way, in the human being Miryam/Mary.

“18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place under these circumstances: When His mother Mary had been promised in marriage to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be pregnant [through the power] of the Holy Spirit.

19 And her [promised] husband Joseph, being a just and upright man and not willing to expose her publicly and to shame and disgrace her, decided to repudiate and dismiss (divorce) her quietly and secretly.

20 But as he was thinking this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary [as] your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of (from, out of) the Holy Spirit.

21 She will bear a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus [the Greek form of the Hebrew Joshua, which means Savior], for He will save His people from their sins [that is, prevent them from [a: Marvin Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament.] failing and missing the true end and scope of life, which is God].

22 All this took place that it might be fulfilled which the Lord had spoken through the prophet,

23 Behold, the virgin shall become pregnant and give birth to a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel — which, when translated, means, God with us. (A #Isa 7:14)

24 Then Joseph, being aroused from his sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him: he took [her to his side as] his wife. ” (Matthew 1:18-24 Amplified 1987 Frances Siewert Bible)

***

The Anointed begotten Son of God

33. Mediator

The Messiah, our only man mediator and Saviour, is to be defined first by Matthew and Luke and then by Paul in 1 Timothy 2:5, and then only later by John, and not in a way which pits New Testament book against book and results in confusion and disunity, excommunication, even murder!

“For there is one Elohim,¹ and one Mediator between Elohim and men, the Man Messiah יהושע, {Footnote: ¹1 Cor. 8:6, Eph. 4:6, Mk. 12:29-34.} “ (1 Timothy 2:5 The Scriptures 1998+)

“But to us \@there is but\@ one God, the Father, of whom \@are\@ all things, and we in him; and one Lord Yahshua the Messiah, by whom \@are\@ all things, and we by him.” (1 Corinthians 8:6 KJBPNV)

“You have been shown it, to know that יהוהHimself is Elohim; there is no one beside Him. “ (Deuteronomy 4:35 The Scriptures 1998+)

"Scripture...sets before us Christ alone ...

“And you shall know today, and shall recall to your heart that יהוה Himself is Elohim in the heavens above and on the earth beneath; there is none else. “ (Deuteronomy 4:39 The Scriptures 1998+)

“one Elohim and Father of all,¹ who is above all, and through all, and in you all. {Footnote: ¹Mk. 12:32,34, 1 Cor. 8:6, 1 Tim. 2:5, Mk. 12:29-34.} “ (Ephesians 4:6 The Scriptures 1998+)

It is not Jesus who is the Father but Jehovah is, and He is also above Jesus, who said to his apostles: ““You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming to you.’ If you did love Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 The Scriptures 1998+)

“And I wish you to know that the head of every man is the Messiah, and the head of woman is the man, and the head of Messiah is Elohim.” (1 Corinthians 11:3 The Scriptures 1998+)

Therefore let us do not forget: “for God is one; {#de 6:4} and there is but one mediator between God and humanity, Yeshua the Messiah, himself human,” (1 Timothy 2:5 CJB)

And as a human he had a beginning and found his end of his life in his dead on the stake[1]. “the Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the \@torah\@ by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the \@Tanakh\@ says, “everyone who hangs from a stake comes under a curse.” {#de 21:22-23}” (Galatians 3:13 CJB)

Jesus did not come out of a sort of a simulated death. He was taken out of death by his Father. It was the God of our fathers who rose up Jesus, whom was murdered by hanging upon a piece of wood [2].

“The Elohim of our fathers raised up יהושע whom you laid hands on, hanging Him on a timber.” (Acts 5:30 The Scriptures 1998+)

34. Preeminent Son

Jesus is thus also God’s “preeminent Son,” “firstborn and brought into the world” by special procreation.

Albrecht notes, referring to the copious research of Theodore Zahn: “I am following here in John 1:13 [3]an extremely old reading found in Irenaeus and Tertullian.

The singular verb ‘was begotten’ [aorist again of gennao] referring to Jesus, not believers, prevailed in texts from the second to the fourth century in the West, and left important traces in the East also. John confesses expressly here his belief in the virginal begetting and birth of Jesus, which Matthew and Luke describe in much more detail” (Albrecht, note on his translation of John 1:13, Anthony Buzzard’s translation of the German).

The Jerusalem Bible adopts this reading also. Tertullian actually accuses the Gnostics of trying to rid Scripture of this evidence of the virginal begetting — by diverting the reference from Jesus to Christian rebirth! This meant changing the verb from an original singular to a plural.[4]

35. The beloved son

Luke presents Jesus as Son of God related to God in a parallel fashion to Adam (Luke 3:38)[5] and shows us on other occasions that his and our Father considered Jesus as His son. At the baptism of his nephew John the Baptist heard the voice, like all the people around that place at the Jordan, and saw a bodily form (sōmatikōi eidei) or the dove giving sound of the voice of the Divine Spirit (pneuma theou).

“And having been immersed, יהושע went up immediately from the water, and see, the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of Elohim descending like a dove and coming upon Him, and see, a voice out of the heavens, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I did delight.” “ (Matthew 3:16-17 The Scriptures 1998+)

And a voice came out of the heavens, “You are My Son, the Beloved, in whom I did delight.” (Mark 1:11 The Scriptures 1998+)

““See, My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My being did delight. I shall put My Spirit upon Him, and He shall declare right-ruling to the nations. “He shall not strive nor cry out, nor shall anyone hear His voice in the streets. “A crushed reed He shall not break, and smoking flax He shall not quench, till He brings forth right-ruling forever.¹ {Footnote: ¹This is according to the Shem-Tob Hebrew text. However, this passage is a quote from Isa. 42:1-3 where it reads right-ruling unto truth.} “And the nations shall trust in His Name.” Then they brought to Him one who was demon-possessed, blind and dumb. And He healed him, so that the blind and dumb man both spoke and saw. And all the crowds were amazed and said, “Is this the Son of Dawiḏ?” “ (Matthew 12:18-23 The Scriptures 1998+)

“And see, Mosheh and Ěliyahu appeared to them, talking with Him. And Kĕpha answering, said to יהושע, “Master, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, let us make here three booths: one for You, one for Mosheh, and one for Ěliyahu.”¹ {Footnote:¹Mark 9:4.} While he was still speaking, see, a bright cloud overshadowed them. And see, a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I did delight. Hear Him!” And when the taught ones heard, they fell on their faces and were much afraid. “ (Matthew 17:3-6 The Scriptures 1998+)

“And it came to be, as they were parting from Him, Kĕpha said to יהושע, “Master, it is good for us to be here. And let us make three booths: one for You, and one for Mosheh, and one for Ěliyahu,” not knowing what he said. And as he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them. And they were afraid as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved. Hear Him!” And when the voice had spoken, יהושע was found alone. And they were silent, and reported to no one in those days any of what they had seen.” (Luke 9:33-36 The Scriptures 1998+)

Those writings from the apostles should made it clear that we got a child in a family who was given a special place in the heart of the Creator, because it was a righteous child willing to take up the command of its Father and therefore receiving the esteem, honour and glory, more than anybody else. So it was Gods voice from the grandeur of the sh’khinah, the magnificent glory, which let us know that Jesus, resplendent with light from God the Father, was His beloved son.[6]

“For when He received respect and esteem from Elohim the Father, such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Esteem, “This is My Son, the Beloved in whom I did delight.” And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the set-apart mountain. And we have the prophetic word made more certain, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture came to be of one’s own interpretation, for prophecy never came by the desire of man, but men of Elohim spoke, being moved by the Set-apart Spirit.” (2 Peter 1:17-21 The Scriptures 1998+)

The attentive reader of Scripture will hear echoes of Israel as Son of God (Exodus 4:22; Hosea 11:1) and Davidic kings (Psalm. 2). Like Israel before him, Jesus, the Son of God, goes through water to begin his spiritual journey (Luke 3:21; cp. Exodus 14, 15). In the wilderness and under trial Jesus proves himself to be the obedient Son unlike Israel who failed in the wilderness (Exodus 14-17; 32-34; Numeri 11).

36. Originating in Mary

Virgin Mary at dead body of her son Jesus - Grablegungsgruppe in Groß St. Martin, Köln.

Gabriel’s Jesus, Son of God — the biblical Son — originates in Mary. He is conceived and begotten by miracle. In pre-existence Christology, the main plank of Trinitarianism, a conception/begetting in Mary’s womb does not bring about the existence of God’s Son. According to Gabriel it does. Neither Gabriel nor Luke could possibly have been Trinitarians.

No need for centuries of complex wrangling over words. All that is required is belief of the angelic communication: “For this reason precisely (dio kai) — the creative miracle of God through His divine power — the child will be Son of God.” For no other reason, for this reason only. (Note the very watered-down rendering of the NIV, “so the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.”)

[1] “The Messiah has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed \@is\@ every one that hangs on a tree:” (Galatians 3:13 KJBPNV)

“his body is not to remain all night on the tree, but you must bury him the same day, because a person who has been hanged has been cursed by god—so that you will not defile your land, which \@ADONAI\@ your god is giving you to inherit.” (Deuteronomy 21:23 CJB)

[2] “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.” (Acts 5:30 KJ21)

[3] “¹²But to all who did receive him, ^*x12.1 who believed in his name, ^*x12.2 he gave the right ^*x12.3 to become ^*x12.4 children of God, ¹³who ^*x13.1 were born, ^*x13.2 not of blood ^*x13.3 nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. “ (John 1:12-13 ESV)

[4] Anthony Buzzard, editor of Focus on the Kingdom writes in” Jesus’ Long-Form Birth Certificate Released by Luke and Matthew (and John), 2000 years ago, and Recorded in Scripture” (June 2011)

[5] “the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.” (Luke 3:38 NIV)

[6] “for we were there when he received honor and glory from god the father; and the voice came to him from the grandeur of the \@sh’khinah\@, saying, “this is my son, whom I love; I am well pleased with him!”” (2 Peter 1:17 CJB)

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed

To be continued: 36. Originating in Mary + 37. Son of the Most High + 38. The Prophet to be heard

+++

The Seed Of The Woman Bruised (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus was born of his mother, and grew up to reverence God, his Father. We learn that he “increased in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man” (Luke 2:52). This expresses normal development; but if Jesus were God such a statement is incomprehensible; or if he pre-existed, it meant that he must have forgotten everything he knew in his previous existence, and had to learn it all again!
On the Nature of Christ (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
The testimonies which teach the indivisible unity of the Deity, as the One Father, out of whom ALL things have proceeded, and who is supreme above all, even above Christ (I Cor. 11:3), are inconsistent with the Trinitarian representation of God. The supremacy and unity of the Father would not be affirmable if there were three co-equal personalities in His One personality—a doctrine which presents us with a contradiction in terms as well as in sense.
This Precious JESUS…………. (scripturalthoughts.wordpress.com)
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:10 (KJV)
Jesus had brothers and sisters (bjorkbloggen.wordpress.com)
It’s almost like a curse for women to not be able to have children so why would Mary of all women have to go through life without any children (apart from Jesus who died) or grandchildren? That would indicate that she certainly was not BLESSED at all. Nowhere does the Word of God say that Mary had no other children. Normally young women are able to bare children so to assume that Mary was out of luck is to start with an answer and trying to find support for this answer in the Bible.
Titles and Names of Christ (verticalviewer.wordpress.com)
Matthew 1 (vidblogdotcom.wordpress.com)
Mark:1-43 (vidblogdotcom.wordpress.com)

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Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed

Posted on December 26, 2011. Filed under: Bible Study and Bible Reading, Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Begotten, Bloodline, dead, God, God Son, Holy Spirit, Incarnation, Jerusalem Bible, Jesus, Mary, Miryam, Monotheism, Polytheism, Pre-existence, Son of God, Trinity |

The Anointed begotten Son of God

29. The only one

Though Jesus came into life by becoming into the womb, and getting onto the world by getting out of the womb of the human being Miryam/Mary he was implanted in her in a special way. You could compare it with fertilisation by insemination by the Holy Spirit.

Mary and Joseph – 1462 Hans Pleydenwurff (1420–1472)

When there took place a fertilisation there would have been a conception, fecundation or syngamy. As fertilisation is the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism in Marya new organism was created by the Holy Spirit.

Because by Mary there was no process involving the fusion of an ovum with a sperm, which eventually leads to the development of an embryo it was an exceptional conceivement. For Mary it was her first child. Afterwards she got some other kids from a normal contact with her then husband Joseph with whom she according one of the Laws of God reproduced.

‘Conception’ is used by some to refer to implantation and is thus a subject of semantic arguments about the beginning of pregnancy, typically in the context of the abortion debate. With Mary there was a conception, an implantation by the Holy Spirit or “by the Working of God”, a conceivement

Remarkably there is the confirmation of the virginal begetting in John 1:13, if we read the Jerusalem Bible and translations like Albrecht’s German rendering of the Greek in 1920. The issue is the singular aorist verb here (egenneethee).

“not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of god.” (John 1:13 CJB)

^„13Nicht aus Geblüt der Menschen, auch nicht aus Fleischestrieb und Manneswillen, vielmehr durch Gottes Wirksamkeit ward er gezeugt.^*n13.1 „ (John 1:13 Albr)

If that text is original, then it is the singular Son of God who “was begotten, not of the will of the flesh or male desire, but of God.” It is surely rather labored and strange to contrast our “rebirth” with the birth by male desire, flesh, etc. Much more natural is an easy reference to the virginal begetting of Jesus. He is then the uniquely begotten Son (monogenes) precisely because that is what he really was, uniquely brought into existence as Son.

“no one has ever seen god; but the only and unique son, who is identical with god and is at the father’s side—he has made him known.” (John 1:18 CJB)

If the conceived one in Mary is Jeshua or Jesus, he is the uniquely begotten one who could be identical with “God” because he was partly from God and partly from a human being, Mary. Being implanted by God he would be a very special person and between the many gods of the world he could receive a special position as a “god”, but that is not the same as being God, making two Gods. Being created in a special way Jesus became the highest form of created being, as Hort noted in his long dissertation on that verse.

By the Word of God, God His son as the only brought-forth Son, is to be made known to the world.

“No one has seen God at any time. The only-begotten [or, unique] Son, the One in the bosom of the Father, that One explained [Him] [or, made [Him] known]. “ (John 1:18 ALT)

30. Pre-existence and virginal birth exclude each other

Virgin Mary and infant Jesus on wall and dove of Holy Spirit and pagan symbols of the four Evangelists on ceiling – Italian Chapel, Lamb Holm, Orkney, Scotland

It was Harnack who observed that “pre-existence and virginal birth self-evidently exclude each other” (schliessen sich aus).

There is more. In the LXX of Psalm 110:3 we read the same “Today I have begotten you,” in the ruling Messianic psalm which controls the thinking of the New Testament. Psalm 110:1 is quoted massively more than any other verse from the Hebrew Bible.

“יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” יהוה sends Your mighty sceptre out of Tsiyon. Rule in the midst of Your enemies! Your people volunteer in the day of Your might, In the splendours of set-apartness! From the womb, from the morning, You have the dew of Your youth! יהוה has sworn and does not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Malkitseḏeq.” יהוה at Your right hand Shall smite sovereigns in the day of His wrath. “ (Psalms 110:1-5 The Scriptures 1998+)

“Jehovah will {1} send forth the {2} rod of thy strength out of Zion: Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. {1) Or [stretch] 2) Or [sceptre]} Thy people {1} offer themselves willingly In the day of thy {2} power, {3} in holy array: Out of the womb of the morning {4} Thou hast the dew of thy youth. {1) Heb [are freewill-offerings] 2) Or [army] 3) Or [in the beauty of holiness] 4) Or [Thy youth are to thee] as [the dew]}” (Psalms 110:2-3 ASV)

It is out of the womb that the sending of the promised one shall come.

The rod of David’s strength shall be send out of Zion and “more than the womb of the morning”[1] Messiah shall come to sit at YHVH the Only One God Jehovah’s right hand until his enemies are subjected to him.

That Son of God is the one begotten by the Father in the LXX of verse 3. Though the Masoretic text has repointed the Hebrew to read “your youth” (yaldutecha) many Hebrew manuscripts and the Hebrew version read by Origen read “I have begotten you” (yeliditicha), exactly as in Psalm 2:7 “I have begotten you.” (All this is just like substituting “shipping” for “shopping” “skyping” for “scoping.”)

““I inscribe for a law: יהוה has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. “ (Psalms 2:7 The Scriptures 1998+)

Psalm 2:7 indicating that the person is “brought forth” or “birthed”[2] is clearly key as is 2 Samuel 7:14, not to mention Isaiah 7:14: “To us [in Israel] has been born or begotten a Son.”

“I will declare shall scribe the decree statute : the LORD Yah Veh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son Ben * ; this day have I begotten birthed thee. {*Ben: cp 2:12 } (Psalms 2:7 ERRB)

“I will shall be his for him, father, and he shall be my for me, son. If he commit iniquity pervert , I will chasten shall reprove him with the rod scion of men, and with the stripes plagues of the children sons of men humanity : “ (2 Samuel 7:14 ERRB)

“Therefore the Lord Adonay himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear birth a son, and shall call his name Immanuel Immanu El . “ (Isaiah 7:14 ERRB)

And in Hebrews 7:14 we know that our Lord is “descended from Judah.”

“For it is evident hath been preevidenced that our Lord sprang Adonay rose out of Juda Yah Hudah ; of unto which tribe scion Moses Mosheh spake nothing naught concerning priesthood. {Genesis 49:8, 10 } “ (Hebrews 7:14 ERRB)

In three groups of 14’s Matthew (ch. 1) lays out the complete family history of the Son of God, who later as “ideal Israel” is called out of Egypt (2:15). Jesus then gives us, as the ideal Moses, the five blocks of New Covenant teaching, each ending with the “chorus” “when Jesus had finished all these words.”

How could anyone imagine “God the Son” being the promised “prophet arising as one like Moses and from the family of Israel” (Deut. 18:15-18)? Israel had asked not to hear God speak directly to them, and God conceded. How bizarre if then a “GOD the Son” spoke to them having abandoned a life of eternity in heaven to walk on earth with an “impersonal human nature.”

32. Transposed into Eternity

Mary or Marie of the Incarnation – 16th century

In case God incarnated in the foetus of Mary it was somebody who was and has always been who came out of Mary. This would mean that that Jesus was also eternal, in case he did not die. God can not die, being a spirit, so that comes in conflict with lots of Christian dogmatic teaching. Muslims on the other hand do not accept such an incarnation, accept Jesus as a prophetbut not as a son of God, and denied that he died. So for them Jesus had a beginning but no end.

Normally in English “to die” means to become deceased or coming in a state of no longer living; being dead. The traditional believe is also that you can only die once and then you shall departure from life and be a dead person.

When a person is dead he or she will not endowed any more with life; and would be inanimate.

In case Jesus died on the cross he would have been dead: deceased, extinct, lifeless, and therefore would not have or appear to have life. Though we know that God cannot die, so when he was in Jesus when did he get out of in and who let He die? Did suddenly change the body of the God into a body of a poor man? According the Muslims the person Jeshua was interchanged for somebody else. But in the Bible this is no where recorded.

Jesus did not fake his death on the wooden stake and really came to an end, so was not eternal.

The birth date as well as the begetting of the Son of God ought never to have been transposed out of history and time into the philosophical, misty “times” of eternity.

The notion of an “eternal begetting” by which, as one church father said, the Son “had a beginningless beginning” ought to have been silenced, and Scripture allowed to speak to us all.
One architect of the Trinity admitted that the Trinity is a compromise between Jewish monotheism and pagan polytheism (Gregory of Nyssa), combining the best of two worlds! This leads people to read Philippians 2 as if Paul was on board with the Trinity of which he had never heard. Jesus was not “in very nature God” (NIV) but “in the form of God,” as God’s visible image, his glory, as the unique Son. The Son’s glory or appearance, visible, was the reflection of the One God, his Father, the God of Israel, God of gods and of the creation. As that matchless human Son, Jesus did not exploit his amazing status but worked for our good, resisting the Devil and performing perfectly as a servant leader.

That is why he has been elevated to the position of ADONI, my lord (Ps. 110:1; adoni is in all 195 occurrences a non-Deity title), at the right hand of YHVH, the One God. If Jesus were GOD in the first place then his achievement and elevation is really a charade. It is what God has done and can do with a fully dedicated human being that should make us catch our breath.

[1] “Thy people [shall be] willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. {from…: or, more than the womb of the morning: thou shalt have, etc}” (Psalms 110:3 AVRLE)

[2] I scribe the statute! Yah Veh says to me, You are my Son/Ben^*; this day I birthed you. {*Ben; cp 2:12 } “ (Psalms 2:7 ECB)

Note: Many Christians believe Jesus was incarnated by the the act of grace whereby Christ took our human nature into union with his Divine Person and became man, supposed to God becoming God Man. Those Christians believe Christ is both God and man but can not explain how it was possible that the people who saw Christ Jesus did not die when they saw him, because everybody who sees God dies (Exodus 33:20).

And יהוה said to Mosheh, “Even this word you have spoken I shall do, for you have found favour in My eyes, and I know you by name.” Then he said, “Please, show me Your esteem.” And He said, “I shall cause all My goodness to pass before you, and I shall proclaim the Name of יהוה before you. And I shall favour him whom I favour, and shall have compassion on him whom I have compassion.” But He said, “You are unable to see My face, for no man does see Me and live.” And יהוה said, “See, there is a place with Me! And you shall stand on the rock. “And it shall be, while My esteem passes by, that I shall put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand while I pass by. “Then I shall take away My hand and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”
(Exodus 33:17-23 The Scriptures 1998+)

According to the Trinitarians they take Jesus as ‘the divine God’ which is not exactly the same as ‘a divine person’ united to a human nature (Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32; 1 Cor. 2:8; Hebrews 2:11-14; 1 Tim. 3:16; Gal. 4:4, etc.).

About the divinity Allon Maxwell says in Good-News Jesus among the partisans:” Of course mainstream theology attributes the sinless obedience of Jesus to the superior moral attributes of his alleged “divinity”. But think about it. That amounts to a serious a slander against the justice of God! What justice would there be in a God who condemned humans who were born unable to obey because of their lack of divinity? How could one ever truly love a God like that?”

We are not divine, but we can strive to get more divine. Daily we can work on our character to become a better person.

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #12 Son of God

To be continued: 33. Mediator + 34. Preeminent Son + 35. The beloved son

Jesus begotten Son of God #11 Existence and Genesis Raising up

Posted on December 21, 2011. Filed under: Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Begotten, Doctrine, Existence, God Son, God the Father, Incarnation, Modalist Unitarians, Pre-existence, Resurrection, Son of God, Trinitarianism |

The Anointed begotten Son of God

26. Brought into existence

Anthony Buzzard, editor of Focus on the Kingdom writes in” Jesus’ Long-Form Birth Certificate Released by Luke and Matthew (and John), 2000 years ago, and Recorded in Scripture” (June 2011):

Scenes from the Life of Christ. Revers: The Announciation - Louis Alincbrot, Luís Alliincbrod 1440s

“The angel Gabriel in a compact and precise statement in answer to Mary’s reasonable inquiry about pregnancy in the absence of a husband gives us a clear picture that there would be special things happening in the future: namely first there would be the holy spirit coming over Miryam or Mary. Next, still in the absence of a husband the power of the Highest will overshadow her, and for that reason precisely (dio kai) the one to be brought into existence will be called (i.e. will be) the Son of God(Luke 1:35).By around 150 AD the philosopher Justin Martyr had so badly misunderstood this that he claimed that the Son engineered his own conception.

Few Bible doctrines are supplied for our understanding and edification in such a comprehensive and comprehensible way, with “Son of God” given its exact definition. But here it is: This verse should have been allowed its monitoring and supervising position and authority as the perfect exposition of what Son of God means, and consequently who Jesus is and was. He is the Son of God, remarkably but hardly surprisingly because God was his Father by miracle. Jesus is thus son of Eve, of Abraham, of David, of Mary and at the same time of God. As Adam was also the Son of God by divine miracle and creation (Luke 3:38), so is Jesus Son of God. “God the Son” is out of the question at once, since the only and mortal Son of God, Messiah, was “brought into existence” some 2000 years ago, at a definite and predicted geographical location. Isaiah 7:14 had predicted this mighty event. It is unthinkable that Matthew and Luke knew of a “God the Son,” uncreated, who left heaven and walked on the earth, while a coequal God the Father remained in heaven. That would be an obvious doubling of God. (Modalist Unitarians, in a desperate attempt to hide a threatening duality in God, said “the Son IS the Father.”)”

27. The plot thickens

If one finds intolerable the need to say “He are one and they is three” (Dr. Millard Erickson, God in Three Persons, p. 270), what is our alternative? Suppose we agree with top logician Stephen Davis that “no one has yet been able to explain in what way God is one and in what different way He is three” (p. 258).

Viktor Vasnetsov. His only begotten son and the word of God. Preparation for a Vladimir cathedral frsco 1885-1896 Tretyakov Gallery

As we have seen in chapter 22 the aorist of the key word “beget” as pointing to the origin of the true Messiah, is the great key to understanding. In that famous saying in Psalm 2:7 the Messiah is defined by these words: “You are my Son. Today I begat you = brought you into existence.” That text reappears most reasonably in Matthew 1:20, as explaining the genesis of Jesus (v. 18).

“What is begotten [by the Father] in her [aorist participle of gennao] is from holy spirit.” Again in Luke: “What is to be begotten will be the holy Son of God” or perhaps “What will be begotten holy is the Son of God.” The sense is the same.

Then in Acts 13:33, if we consult F.F. Bruce and other commentary we find the Psalm 2:7 text applied where naturally it belongs, to the coming into existence, the putting on the human scene of Jesus, not to his resurrection which has a different proof text, in verse 34: “And as for the fact that he was raised from the dead…”

Bruce is insightful: “‘Raised up’ – that is by raising him up in the sense in which he raised David (v. 22). For anistemi in this sense, see 3:22; 7:37; 3:26 (‘raised him up and sent him’). The promise of v. 23, the fulfilment of which is described in 13:33, has to do with the sending of the Messiah, not his resurrection (for which see v. 34). The addition of ‘from the dead’ in v. 34 differentiates this use of ‘raise up’ from its use in v. 33” (Acts of Apostles, Comm. on Greek text).

A Trinitarian commentator amongst many was honest enough to admit the obvious here, although it does not help his doctrine: “The Apostle does not quote in Acts 13:33 the passage from Psalm 2:7 in order to prove the resurrection of Jesus, but his incarnation [he means here the beginning of his life in Mary]. The ‘raising up’ [the RV corrected the KJV], not ‘raised up AGAIN’ as in KJV, of Jesus spoken of in v. 33, is the bringing of the Messiah into the world for his mediatorial work.

Compare Romans 9:17, ‘For this same purpose I have raised you up.’ This incarnation was promised in the second psalm. Paul then proceeds (Acts 13:34) to prove the fulfilment of the promise that the Messiah would be raised from the dead, by quoting Isaiah 53:3 and also Psalm 16:10. ‘And as concerning the fact that he raised him from the dead…I will give you the sure mercies of David’” (Dr. G.T Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, p. 327.)

After all “beget” does not mean to resurrect from the dead, but to become the father of, and we know when that happened already.

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve
with: 23. Coming down from heaven; 24. First spirit and then flesh & 25. Seed of Eve

+ The Seed Of The Woman Bruised

To be continued: 28. Son of God; 29. The only one

On the Nature of Christ (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
The wrong hero (Stepping toes)
Jesus begotten Son of God #8 Found Divinely Created not Incarnated (christadelphians.wordpress.com)

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On the Nature of Christ

Posted on December 17, 2011. Filed under: Bible Study and Bible Reading, Holy Scriptures, Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Abraham, Anointing, Begotten, Christendom, Deity, Doctrine, Ebionites, Epistles of Paul, Fore-Ordained, God the Father, Gospel of Luke, Gospel of Marcion, Gospel of Matthew, Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, Nazarene, New Testament, Old Testament, Oneness, Pre-existence, Resurrection, Seed of Abraham, Son of God, Trinitarianism, Trinitarism, Trinity, Unitarianism |

The Trinity as represented in a woodcarving in Saint-Urbain de Troyes

If Christendom is astray as to the Father and the Holy Spirit, it is not wonderful that we should find it astray in its conception of the Lord Jesus who is the manifestation of the Father by the Spirit. Christendom believes Christ to be the incarnation of one of three distinct essences, or personalities, which are supposed to constitute the God-head; and that though clothed in human form, he was God in the absolute sense of being the Creator.

This is the doctrine of the Trinitarian section of Christendom, in opposition to which, another section believes that Christ was a mere man, begotten in the ordinary process of generation, and distinguished above his fellows by a pre-eminent endowment of the “virtues” of human nature, which fitted him to be an example to mankind. This (the Unitarian) view regards him as a teacher sent from God, and is in some sense the Son of God; but denies the essential divinity of his nature. Both these views will be found equally removed from the truth. The truth lies between.

Papyrus 69 or P. Oxy 2383 Marcion Gospel of Luke

The testimonies which teach the indivisible unity of the Deity, as the One Father, out of whom ALL things have proceeded, and who is supreme above all, even above Christ (I Cor. 11:3), are inconsistent with the Trinitarian representation of God. The supremacy and unity of the Father would not be affirmable if there were three co-equal personalities in His One personality—a doctrine which presents us with a contradiction in terms as well as in sense. Jesus emphasises the distinction between himself and the Father, in the following statements:—

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me” (John 5:30).

Again:—

“My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me” (John 7:16).

Again:—

“It is written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself; and the Father that sent me (the other witness), beareth witness of me” (John 8:17–18).

Again:—

“This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent” (John 17:3).

The persons of the trinity are identified by symbols on their chests: The Son has a lamb (agnus dei), the Father an Eye of Providence, and the Spirit a dove. – Fridolin Leiber (1853–1912)

The marked distinction recognised and affirmed in these statements is incompatible with the doctrine which regards the Son as an essential constituent of the one “triune” Father. There are “the Father,” “the Son,” and “the Holy Spirit.” The question is, what is the relation between the three, as taught in the Scriptures? The objection now urged is against the relation which Trinitarianism teaches to exist between these three. The endeavour is to show that they are not three co-equal powers in one, but powers of which one is the head and source of the others. The Father is eternal and underived; the Son is the manifestation of the Father in a man begotten by the Spirit; the Holy Spirit is the focalisation of the Father’s power, by means of His “free spirit,” which fills heaven and earth. There is, therefore, a trinity of existences to contemplate, and a certain unity subsisting in the trinity, inasmuch as both Son and Spirit are manifestations of the one Father; but the Trinitarian conception of the subject is excluded.
But the Unitarian view, still more so. Joseph was not the father of Jesus. He himself repudiated his paternity, and was about to put away Mary, his betrothed, when an angel came to him with this message:—

“Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife. For that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 1:20).

This marvel had been previously intimated to Mary by the angel Gabriel, as recorded in Luke 1:35:—

“The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee; and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

The Unitarian evades these testimonies by denying the authenticity of the first two chapters of Matthew and Luke. The reasons for this denial are altogether flimsy and insufficient: nay, they are bad. The evidence in proof of the genuineness of the (by them) rejected chapters is more than decisive: it cannot be answered: it is irresistible. It leaves no room for doubt or gainsaying. There is the united evidence of all the accessible ancient MSS. and versions, supported by the recognition of the very earliest Christian writers, confirmed by the internal character of the chapters and the necessity for the event which they narrate, to explain the character and mission of Jesus of Nazareth. Against this, there is the merely negative fact that the disputed chapters are absent from the Ebionite gospel, which at the time of its production was pronounced a corruption; and from the Evangelium of Marcion, a gospel which he wrote to suit his own heathenish notions, and from which he recklessly omitted, not only the disputed chapters, but everything that interfered with his peculiar ideas.

File:Baptism-of-Christ-xx-Francesco-Alban.JPG

Baptism of Christ – Francesco Albani (1578–1660)

The first writer who mentions the Ebionites is Irenæus, who speaks of them as a sect not only separated from the general body of Christians, but who opposed the doctrines preached by the Apostles, and rejected, not only the disputed chapters, but the greater part of the books of the New Testament, rejecting all the epistles of Paul, whom they called an apostate from the law. They only made use of a Hebrew gospel, which they called Matthew’s, but which differs from Matthew in many particulars besides the two chapters. Here is a sect which rejected whole books of authentic Scripture, because they were inimical to their notions. How can a reasonable man accept such a sect as affording guidance on the question of the authenticity of two particular chapters absent from their version, but present in almost all other MSS. throughout the world? Their “Matthew” was impugned at the time. It was proclaimed a corruption of the genuine gospel, while the “canonical” Matthew, as we have it, was never called in question. Epiphanius thus speaks:—“In that gospel which they (the Ebionites) have called the gospel according to Matthew, which is not entire and perfect, but corrupted and curtailed, and which they call The Hebrew Gospel, it is written” (and he quotes), “Thus,” says he, “they change the true account into a falsehood … They have taken away the genealogy from Matthew, and accordingly begin their gospel with these words: ‘It came to pass, in the days of Herod, King of Judæa.’ ” Origen alludes to it thus:—“It is written in a certain gospel, which is called, ‘according to the Hebrews,’ if indeed any one is pleased to receive it, NOT AS OF AUTHORITY, but for illustration of the present question” (and then he quotes). He afterwards quotes this as a specimen of the same gospel according to the Hebrews: “Just now my mother, the Holy Ghost, took me by one of my hairs, and carried me to the great mountain Tabor.” This absurdity, and another passage, quoted by Origen, prove that the text of the Hebrew gospel, read by Origen, was not the same as our Greek gospel of Matthew, with which its friends suppose it to be identical. It differed on many points besides the first two chapters. The absence of the first two chapters of Matthew from the Ebionite and Nazarene gospels is of no weight in view of their rejection of Paul’s epistles, which even the Unitarians accept. The omission is accounted for in the way the rejection of Paul’s epistles is accounted for; the two first chapters did not coincide with their notions, and therefore they struck them out. The Nazarene and Ebionite copies of Matthew’s gospel not only omit the first two chapters, but in several instances they contradict the other three gospels of Mark, Luke, and John, whereas the corresponding passages in our Greek copy of Matthew agree with them, which shows which way the tampering has occurred.
As to Marcion, he omitted the two disputed chapters: but he also rejected the whole of the Old Testament, both the law and the prophets, as proceeding from the God of the Jews, whom he regarded as the creator of this world, in contrast to a higher Creator. As to the New Testament, he made one for himself consisting of only one gospel, supposed to be compiled chiefly from Luke, and only ten of Paul’s epistles, which are altered from the received version in numerous instances, in order to make the text more pliable to his gnostic notions. People who quote him against the miraculous conception are bound consistently to follow him in these variations as well. He did not admit Christ to have been born at all. Consequently, be begins his gospel thus:—“In the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius, God descended into Capernaum.” He not only omits the first two chapters of Luke; he omits also the account of John the Baptist, the baptism of Christ, and his visit to Nazareth. He also omits part of chapter 8:19; 10:21; 11, part of verse 29, and all of verses 30, 31, 32, 49, 50, 51; 12:6, 28, part of verses 8, 30, 32; 13:1–5: altered verse 28, omitted from 29 to end of chapter: 15:11–32; 17, part of 10–12: whole of verse 13: whole of 17:31–33; 19:28–48; 20, from 9 to 18: also 37, 38; 21:18, 21, 22; 22:16, 35, 37, 50, 51; 23:43; 24:26–7, and verse 25 altered.
Those who quote Marcion as an authority in the case of the first two chapters, ought to accept him as such in all these cases. That they disregard him in these cases is a proof that, even in their opinion, his authority is of no weight.

The divine paternity of Jesus would stand an unassailable truth, even if the records of Matthew and Luke had no existence. These records are, however, invaluable. They are the circumstantial illustrations of a truth which, though the nature of the case, and the prophetic testimony necessitate it, we could not have so clearly and satisfactorily comprehended without them. They explain to us the appearance and character of Christ, and make us privy to the divine method of procedure, from its incipiency onwards, in the most wondrous work of God among men.

That Christ was an example in the sense of being “holy, harmless, and undefiled” is beyond doubt; but it is also true that he was a great deal more. The speciality of his mission is so plainly stated as to leave no room for the Unitarian doctrine of moral example. “Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world, ” said John the Baptist, on seeing Jesus (John 1:29). How did he take it away? The answer is in the words of the apostle Paul:—“He put away sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Heb. 9:26). Jesus himself had said, “I lay down my life for my sheep.” Paul also says to Timothy, in the second epistle, first chapter, tenth verse, “Jesus Christ hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”; a fact which is stated by Christ himself in this form, “God sent His Son, that the world through him might be saved” (John 3:17). Furthermore, Peter says, “There is none other name under heaven given whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12). Salvation is thus directly connected with the first appearing of Christ, and with what he accomplished then; not on the principle of moral stimulus supplied, but in virtue of the essential result secured by the course he fulfilled.

Incarnation of the Virgin Mary with the Three-Une God- Giulio Cesare Procaccini, Incoronazione della Vergine (Getty Museum) about 1604 – 1607

Leaving both Trinitarianism and Unitarianism, we may find the truth in the Scriptures for ourselves. The simple appellation of “Son,” as applied to Christ, is sufficient to prove that his existence is derived, and not eternal. The phrase, “Son of God,” implies that the one God, the eternal Father, was antecedent to the Son, and that the Son had his origin in or “out of” the Father to whom he must therefore be subordinate in a sense inconsistent with Trinitarian representation. “This day have I begotten thee” is the language of Scripture, dearly pointing to a commencement of days. This view is confirmed by the statement of Christ:—“As the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).
Christ, therefore, though now possessed of inherent life, had been invested with it; it is not in this case underived. It is only the Great Uncreate, the Father, that can say, “I am, and there is none else beside me.” Yet, though Christ’s is not an underived existence, it is more directly divine than the human. A man is an embodiment of his father’s mortal life-energy. Jesus was not born of the will of the flesh, but of God. He was begotten of Mary through the power of the spirit. This was the origin of his title, “the Son of God.” See the angel’s words to Mary:—“Therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35).
But, though Son of God, he was flesh and blood. “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of THE SAME.… He took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren” (Heb. 2:14, 16, 17). He was made sin for us, who knew no sin (II Cor. 5:21). As he was in character sinless, this could only apply to his bodily constitution, which, through Mary, was the sin-nature of Adam. As Paul says elsewhere (Rom. 8:3), “God sent his Son in the likeness of sinful flesh.” “He was sent forth made of a woman” (Gal. 4:4), “of the seed of David according to the flesh” (Rom. 1:3). Jesus was “a man approved of God by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him (after his thirty years’ preparation) in the midst of Israel” (Acts 2:22). This is Peter’s description of him. Paul speaks of him as “the man Christ Jesus” (I Tim. 2:5). He was tried and disciplined as Adam was, but succeeded where Adam failed. “Though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered” (Heb. 5:8). This precludes the idea of his being “very God.” He was the Son of God, the manifestation of God by spirit-power, but not God himself. “The life was manifested, ” says John, “and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested unto us” (I John 1:2).

Again, in his gospel narrative (chapter 1:14), he says:—“The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth,” from which it is evident that Christ was a divine manifestation—an embodiment of Deity in flesh—Emmanuel, God with us. “God giveth not the spirit by measure unto him,” says the same apostle (chapter 3:34). The spirit descended upon him in bodily shape at his baptism in the Jordan, and took possession of him. This was the anointing which constituted him Christ (or the anointed), and which gave him the superhuman powers of which he showed himself possessed. This is clear from the words of Peter, in his address to the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius—(Acts 10:38)—“God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed.”
This statement alone is sufficient to disprove the popular view of Christ’s essential Godhead. If he were “very God” in his character as Son, why was it necessary he should be “anointed” with spirit and power? He did no miracles before his anointing. He had no power of himself. This is his own declaration: “I can of mine own self do nothing” (John 5:30). “The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works” (John 14:10). On Calvary, left to the utter helplessness of his own humanity, he felt the anguish of the hour and cried out, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46). Before his anointing, he was simply the “body prepared” for the divine manifestation that was to take place through him. The preparation of this body commenced with the Spirit’s action on Mary, and concluded when Jesus, being thirty years of age, stood approved in the perfection of a sinless and mature character. After the Spirit’s descent upon him, he was the full manifestation of God in the flesh. The Father, by the Spirit, tabernacled in Christ among men. “God was in Christ,” says Paul, “reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them.”

The Lamb of God exhalted.- Cellar painting in Peace church in Schweidnitz (an Apocalyptic scene) – Photo Qasinka

When raised from the dead and glorified, he was exalted to “all power in heaven and earth ”; his human nature was swallowed up in the divine; the flesh changed to spirit. Hence, as he now exists, “In him dwelleth all the fulness of the God-head bodily” (Col. 2:9). He is now the corporealisation of life-spirit as it exists in the Deity. But this change from what he was “in the days of his flesh” has not obliterated a single line of his human recollections. This is evident from Paul’s words in reference to his priestlyfunction: “We have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities” (Heb. 4:15). This can only be on the principle that Jesus retains a memory of the infirmity with which he himself was encompassed in the day of his flesh career upon earth.

When Jesus said, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father,” he did not contradict the statement that “no man hath seen God at any time,” but simply expressed the truth contained in the following words of Paul:—Christ is “the image of the invisible God” (Col. 1:15); “the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person” (Heb. 1:3). Those who looked upon the anointed Jesus, beheld a representation of the Deity accessible to human vision.

Jesus declares things of himself which are held to sanction the idea that he existed as a person before his birth of Mary; such as that “he came down from heaven to give life to the world” (John 6:33); that “he proceeded forth and came from the Father” (John 8:42; 16:28); that he had “power to lay down his life and power to take it again” (John 10:18); that he “had glory with the Father before the world was,” and was “loved of Him before the foundation of the world” (John 17:5–24), etc.

It is evident, however, that we must understand these expressions in the light of the undoubted facts of Christ’s life and mission. These literal facts are that he was begotten of the Holy Spirit, and born a baby at Bethlehem (Luke 1:35; 2:5–7); grew up to be a man, increasing in wisdom with years, stature, and experience (Luke 2:52); remained the private and undistinguished son of Joseph the carpenter, until the power of the Spirit was shed upon him at his baptism (Luke 3:21–23): AFTER WHICH, he did the works and spoke the words recorded; that he was put to death through weakness (II Cor. 13:4); was deserted of the power of the Father when suspended on the cross; and that he was afterwards raised from the dead by the Father (Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 37, and so on).

Baptism of Jesus Chrits represented by a masterpainter from Lake Constance of 1466, with the Trinitarian idea of the Godheads – 1450 – Paris, Musée du Louvre, Département des Arts Graphiques

With these facts in view, we are enabled to attach the proper sense to statements which, in a naked and detached form, would appear to teach a personal pre-existence. For instance, when Jesus said to the Pharisees that he came down from heaven, he could not mean that the person standing before them had bodily descended from the clouds, as his words, literally understood, would have taught, and as the Pharisees appeared to have understood; he meant to say that his origin was from heaven. The “Holy Spirit” that came upon Mary—the “Power of the Highest” that overshadowed her, came down from heaven; consequently, the resultant man could, without extravagance, say he came down from heaven. The sense was literal as applied to the Power of the Highest that produced “the man Christ Jesus”; both at the stage of his begettal and the stage of his anointing on the banks of the Jordan, when the Spirit descended in bodily form and abode upon him; but not literal as applied to the man Christ Jesus.
When he said he proceeded forth and came from God, it was in the sense of these facts. He could not mean that as a person he had emanated from the very presence of the Almighty, but that the Father had sent him in the way disclosed in the record of his birth and baptism. John is described as “a man sent from God,” without meaning to suggest that John existed before he was born and sent.

When Jesus said he had power to take up his life after it should be laid down, he expressed the confidence that God would raise him. It was not power in the dynamic sense; but authority (εξονσια); he immediately adds, “This commandment HAVE I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER”; that is, the taking up of his life would result from the Father’s power and authority, exercised in accordance with the pledge given by the Father. Literally, Jesus did not take up his life; the Father raised him (see the references to Acts, three paragraphs back); but because it was the Father’s purpose, and because the Father spoke through Jesus (John 14:10), Jesus could appropriately say that he had power to raise up himself. An example of this style of language, in which what a person has a relation to in the divine purpose, is considered as under his control and referable to his power, occurs in Jer, 1:10:—

“See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.”

Literally, the prophet did none of these things, but was overpowered and slain, as nearly all the servants of God were; yet the things he predicted came to pass, and this is taken as a sufficient basis for the highly-wrought language above quoted, which imputes the result of Jeremiah’s predictions to Jeremiah’s individual operations.
Christ’s statement that he had glory with the Father before the world was, must in the same way be understood in harmony with the elementary facts of the testimony. The glorification of Jesus was a purpose with the Father from the beginning: and, in this sense, he had glory with the Father before the world was. This may appear a strained explanation; but a regard to the scriptural habit of speech will justify it, in view of the testified facts of the case.

The Lord said to Jeremiah (chapter 1:5):—“Before I formed thee in the belly I KNEW THEE; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I SANCTIFIED THEE: and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” Now Jeremiah did not exist before his conception. Yet these words would seem to teach it, if understood as those who believe in the pre-existence of Christ, understood the statements about him. As a purpose Jeremiah existed; his person was as clearly present to the divine mind as if he had stood before Him in actual fact. This is the explanation of words, which, rigidly construed, would imply Jeremiah’s pre-existence.

Look again at the words spoken of Cyrus, the Persian ruler, more than a hundred years before he was born (Isaiah 45:4):—“For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name; I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.” The same remark applies here: Cyrus was present to the divine contemplation as really as if he existed. Hence a style of language which would seem to assume his existence before he was born.

On the same principle, the purpose to raise a dead man is expressed by ignoring his death, and assuming his continued existence. Thus Jesus deduces the resurrection from the fact that God styled Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, at a time when these men were dead. The Sadducees saw the force of the argument, and were silenced (Matt. 22:31–34). The principle of the argument is expressed in the words of Paul (Rein. 4:17)—“God who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not (but are to be) AS THOUGH THEY WERE.”

Anointing – Priestly Code the high priest is anointed

The words spoken of Jesus are of this order. When he said in prayer to the Father, “Thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world,” he did not teach that he existed from “he foundation of the world,” but that the Father regarded him with love from the beginning, and that, therefore, to the Father’s mind, he was present. In the words of Peter, “He was fore-ordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times.” (I Peter 1:20).
The same style of language is adopted with reference to Christ’s people: “He hath chosen US in him before the foundation of the world.” Literally, this would prove the existence of believers before the world began, for properly, a thing must exist to be the object of choice; actually, it only proves divine foresight. The glory which Jesus had before the world was, was the glory which God purposed for him from the beginning. Literally, he had not the glory referred to before the world was. What was the nature of that glory—the glory Jesus received in answer to this prayer? HE—the bodily Jesus—the body prepared —that which was evolved from the substance of Mary and made the subject of the anointing—was made incorruptible in substance, and the spirit shed upon that substance so abundantly, that it made him more luminous than the sun (Acts 26:13), and gave him power to bestow the spirit, and control providence in heaven and earth. Was Jesus possessed of this glory before he was born? Was he a body anointed with the spirit before he was the body prepared? Was he a real resurrected Jesus before Jesus of Nazareth was born in Bethlehem? Yet this was the glory he had with the Father before the world was. It was a glory he had in the Father’s purpose, but in no other sense.

In the same way are we to understand the words, “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58). This was Christ’s answer to the incredulity excited by his statement, “Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it, and was glad.” The Jews thought he meant to insinuate that he was contemporary with Abraham, whereas he only meant to express the fact stated by Paul in the following words:—“These all (including Abraham—see verse 8) died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them AFAR OFF” (Heb. 11:13). It was this seeing of the promise of Christ “afar off” that made Abraham glad. It was the day presented in the promises that he saw, but, as they almost always did, the Jews mistook Jesus, and, as he was prone to do, he deepened their bewilderment by using another form of speech, which still more obscured his meaning, on the principle indicated in Matt. 13:11–15: a form of speech which in one phrase expressed two aspects of the truth concerning himself, viz., that he was purposed before Abraham existed, and that the Father, of whom he was then the manifestation, existed before all.

Jesus said, “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30). He could not mean, in view of all the testimony, what Trinitarians understand him to mean, that he and the Father were identically the same person (“the same in substance, equal in power and glory”), but that they were one in spirit-connection and design of operations. This is apparent from his prayer for his disciples, “That they may be one, EVEN as we are one.” The unity is not as to person, but as to nature and state of mind. This is the unity that exists between the Father and the Son, and the unity that will be ultimately established between the Father and His whole family, of whom Christ is the elder brother. When this unity is established, Christ will take a more subordinate position than he now occupies, in relation to the race of Adam. Paul says, “When all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all” (I Cor. 15:28).

—————

Robert Roberts. (1984; 2002). Christendom Astray from the Bible (On The Nature Of Jesus Christ p154–165). Logos Publications. (Re-edited by the Belgian Christadelphians (2011)

Preceding articles: Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve

How The Seed Of The Woman Was Bruised On The Heel

Hashem השם, Hebrew for “the Name”
God is one
Creator of heaven and earth and everything aroundיהוה
The wrong hero
Only one God
God of gods
A god between many gods
Gods salvation
The Great Trinity debate
The trinity – the truth
Jesus was not God, Reasons that
Preexistence in the Divine purpose and Trinity
How do trinitarians equate divine nature
A promise given in the Garden of Eden A covenant of grace or the covenant of redemption.
Christ begotten through the power of the Holy Spirit
Reasons that Jesus was not God
2 Corinthians 5:19 – God in Christ
How the Coctrine of the Trinity came to the Church
Why the trinity was accepted in Europe
Christ begotten through the power of the Holy Spirit
Nature of Preexistence in the New Testament
Pre-existence
Pre-existence of Christ
The so-called “preexistence” of Jesus in John refers to his “existence” in the Plan of God.
He has given us the Pneuma, the force, from Him
Holy Spirit a Person
The Spirit Of Jesus
Word – John 1:1
God has visited His people
The radiance of God’s glory and the counsellor
Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father
The Naturalness of Jesus
Mary, who was she & what was her role
A “seed” for the blessing of all mankind would come through the family of Abraham
The way of the wheat grain! & Oneness of this love
Mission son of God perceived as failure
Jesus spitting image of his father
Jesus and his God
One mediator
One Mediator between God and man
The true vine
Promise of Comforter
Promises, God’s
Rabboni, Knowing —
Ressurection of Jesus Christ
Sacrifice, Expiatory
True riches
Yahushua, Yehoshua, Yeshua, Jehoshua of Jeshua
Lord or Yahuwah, Yeshua or Yahushua
Scriptures That Show That Jesus (Yahshua) Is Not Yahweh (Jehovah)
Yeshua a man with a special personality
Jesus as fully human
Da Vinci Code: Was Jesus Human or Divine?
Good-News Jesus among the partisans Jesus was the son of “The Father” in the fullest sense as he said on numerous occasions.
Clean Flesh #2 Purity of Jesus
Who is Jesus Christ?Biblical Unitarians do write:The Bible is the Word of God. It tells us about the life and death — and resurrected life — of the greatest man who ever lived. His name is Jesus Christ. For centuries men have debated the identity of this unique man. Was he God? Was he a “mere” man? How did he do the things he did?We assert that the answers lie in the Bible. If so, the question is: “What does the Bible say?”
Who is Jesus #1 Introduction
Who is Jesus #2 Jesus Christ, man who died
Who is Jesus #4 Clear statements that our heavenly Father is his “God”
Who is Jesus #6 Jesus prays to God
Who is Jesus #7 Also. Trust in God; trust also in me
Who is Jesus #8 Father greater than Jesus
Who is Jesus #9 100% or not
Who is Jesus #10 Jesus was tempted in every way
Who is Jesus #12 Conclusion
Reason to believe: did Jesus of Nazareth really died on the cross and rose again
Why did Jesus have to die
Jesus Christ, His Sacrifice
How people see Jesus placed in history
A Jewish Theocracy

+++

2012 September update:

Early Trinitarianism (leithart.com)
Building on the work of Robert Jenson and especially JND Kelly, Jason Vickers argues in Invocation and Assent: The Making and the Remaking of Trinitarian Theology that the proto-creedal affirmations of Trinitarian theology that are found in the various “rules of faith” specifically aim to undergird confidence in the efficacy of the rites and liturgies of the church for salvation. They are not simply “summaries of Scripture” (they leave out Israel entirely) nor simply doctrinal identity markers. Rather, they identify the name of the God who saves so that He may be invoked in praise and worship.
The God Of The Scriptures (aparticularbaptistblog.wordpress.com)
The chief trouble is that so much that passes for faith today is really only maudlin sentimentality. The faith of Christendom in this twentieth century is mere credulity, and the “god” of many of our churches is not the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but a mere figment of the imagination.
Who God says I am (davidmuia.wordpress.com)

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The Seed Of The Woman Bruised

Posted on December 14, 2011. Filed under: Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Covenant, Cross, Crucifixion, Divine Character, Fulfilment, God the Father, Holy Spirit, Jesus, Lamb of God, Mary, Plan of God, Pre-existence, Promise, Seed of Eve, Son of God, Virgin Mary |

How The Seed Of The Woman Was Bruised On The Heel

How Christ Fulfilled The Promise.

In fulfilment of the promises of God, Jesus, as “the seed of the woman,” was born of the virgin Mary by the overshadowing power of the Holy Spirit. His mother was told:

“The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35.)

Christ had no corporeal existence before that point of time. Though he was in the mind and purpose of God from the very beginning, and in that sense was “with God,” be did not exist as a person until the “word was made flesh and dwelt among” the Jews 1900 years ago (John 1:14).

Unfortunately, confusion reigns concerning the person of the Lord Jesus, and his purpose and place in the plan of God, as a result of the reaching that claims be is the second person of a Trinity, or that he preexisted before his birth.

We ask that if the reader believes either of these doctrines, he suspend judgement upon what we have stated above, until all the evidence is before him. We undertake to explain any verse of Scripture in the light of the teaching we have set down, but we fail to understand how anybody can logically believe that Jesus and God are two persons and Net one, or that the Lord Jesus existed before he was born.

Jesus was born of his mother, and grew up to reverence God, his Father. We learn that he “increased in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man” (Luke 2:52). This expresses normal development; but if Jesus were God such a statement is incomprehensible; or if he pre-existed, it meant that he must have forgotten everything he knew in his previous existence, and had to learn it all again!

Virgin Mary and Jesus, old Persian miniature. ...

Born of a human mother, he inherited the nature common to all mankind. This is a nature subject to death, so that the Lord was in need of redemption from death, just as much as those he came to save. He was subjected to the some trials and temptations as is mankind generally, but whereas all others have failed, be triumphed over the nature he possessed, and rendered sinless obedience to God.

Where did Christ derive the strength to conquer, whereas all others possessing the same nature have failed? The answer is: from God. God was his Father and a spiritually-minded woman was his mother, so that from birth the Lord inherited qualities that be was able to develop by his own independent freewill as he grew towards maturity (see Luke 2:40, 42–47, 52). In addition, he was granted the spirit of God without measure (John 3:34), and this quickened him in the understanding of God’s will and purpose (Isaiah 11:2–3; Luke 4:18–19). By these means, Jesus, who was the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth” (John 1:14), received strength that enabled him to render sinless obedience to the requirements of his Father, and manifest a character which reflected the Divine image (1 Peter 2:21–24).

This was necessary for the work of redemption, so that it is not solely the work of Christ, but that of the Father and the Son acting in conjunction one with the other. The Bible teaches: “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself” (2 Cor. 5:19). Jesus leaned heavily upon the Father, and God strengthened him, with the result that the fullness of the Divine character was revealed in a human body, that inherited the consequences of the first sin.

The lesson of redemption, therefore, teaches that we must seek a Strength apart from flesh, even that which comes from God (James 1:17), if we would develop a character pleasing unto Him. Moreover, such Strength is available to us, as Paul taught. He declared: “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me” (Phil. 4:13).

How The Seed Of The Woman Was Bruised On The Heel.

Muthmannsdorf parish church St Peter im Moos, Lower Austria: 13th century fresco at the vault of the crossing. In the centre Agnus Dei (Lamb of God), surrounded by the Twelve Apostles Date 20 September 2009

Thus, being the “begotten son of God,” Jesus was the perfect “seed of the woman” promised in Genesis 3:15. In accordance with that prophetic covenant, his righteousness so excited the enmity and malice of his fleshly contemporaries, that they conspired to put him to death. They, (the seed of the serpent), by “wicked hands” brought him to the cross, thus, unconsciously, fulfilling “the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God” (Acts 2:23–24). God had decreed he should thus die (Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10) as a sacrifice for sin (Psalm 40:5–9; Heb. 10:5). They did not realise that he was the “lamb of God” to “bear away the sin of the world” (John 1:29), and therefore, they imagined that once they bad crucifiedhim, they had seen the last of him.

How mistaken they were was revealed three days later when he rose from the dead.

Why did God permit His son to die upon the cross? What was accomplished in his death? First of all, it constituted a public exhibition of what is due to flesh which the history of mankind has revealed to be evil and sinful in its tendency.

Jesus rendered perfect obedience to the Father, in spite of the flesh, not because of it (John 6:63). If Jesus had yielded to his own will instead of that of the Father, be would not have rendered perfect obedience “even unto the death of the cross,” for in submitting to the requirements of God, did he not say: “Not my will but Thine be done.”

Flesh which has proved so rebellious against God throughout the ages, could only be atoned for by one way: the shedding of blood (Heb. 9:22). The flesh of Jesus, hanging lifeless upon the cross, presents the lesson of salvation to humanity. Being of our nature, he had to conquer it in order to attain unto immortality. This he did by rendering perfect obedience unto God through the strength he derived from that source. In a figurative sense, therefore, he had crucified the flesh in life by controlling its desires, and subjugating his will to that of his Father. When, at last, he hung lifeless upon the cross, the struggle was at an end. In that final act of dedication, the flesh had been silenced for ever, and no longer could assert itself against the will of God.

The “crucified Jesus” is a public exhibition of what God requires of mankind if they would seek after salvation, whereas the risen Christ” is the symbol of hope for those who are “in Christ.”

Mansfield, H. (1997). Key to Understanding of the Scriptures (electronic ed.). Findon, South Australia: Logos Publications.

Please do also read:

Jesus begotten Son of God #6 Anointed Son of God, Adam and Abraham (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #8 Found Divinely Created not Incarnated (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Jesus begotten Son of God #9 Two millennia ago conceived or begotten (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Sunday Series – Christmas Edition – Away in a Manger (1inawesomewonder.com)
Away in a manger. Meaning: In a different place, possibly far from a place one normally would be, in a trough where animals feed. Talk about an inauspicious start to life. That’s how God planned it. That’s how man arranged it.
Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
When people say that Jesus came down from heaven they should know that all the good things come down from heaven.

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve

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Jesus begotten Son of God #8 Found Divinely Created not Incarnated

Posted on December 10, 2011. Filed under: Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Begotten, Conceived, Conception, Divinely, Divinity, Incarnation, Jesus, Mary, Messiah, Miryam, Pre-existence, Son of God, Virgin Mary |

The Anointed begotten Son of God

17. To be found

In case people would read their scrolls handed over by their forefathers they could learn from the Torah and the Prophets who God was and what He was going to provide and even which signs could be noticed to know that the time had arrived.

Several people claimed to be the saviour, and in history there have been many who had been called Jeshua or Iessou or Jesus, even today we do find people called Jesus or Chésu.

When the angel appeared before the virgin Miryam/Miriam, she Mary/Maria had a very reasonable objection that she was as yet unmarried and therefore would not have had intercourse. Gabriel declared, “holy spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, and for that reason indeed (dio kai) the holy child to be begotten will be called Son of God” (Luke 1:35). As the angels says it was a son of God who would become begotten, it is to say would become in existence or would be born.

“In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favoured! The Lord is with you.” Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favour with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called {Or So the child to be born will be called holy,} the Son of God.” (Luke 1:26-35 NIV)

18. Divinely created

The Son of God of Gabriel’s announcement is none other than a divinely created Son of God, coming into existence — begotten — as Son in his mother’s womb. All other claimants to divine Sonship and Messiahship may safely be discounted. A “Son of God” who is the natural son of Joseph could not, on the evidence of Gabriel, be the Messiah. Such a person would not answer to the Son who is son on the basis of a unique divine intervention in the biological chain. Equally false to Gabriel’s definition of the Son of God would be a son who pre-existed his conception. Such a son could not possibly correspond to the Messiah presented by Gabriel, one whose existence is predicated on a creative act in history on the part of the Father. And it was Gods spirit who took care that Mary was conceived. It was an action in that time.

Gabriel does not present a Son of God in transition from one state of existence to another. He announces the miraculous origin and beginning of the Messiah. Mary became with a child from the Spirit. The apostle Matthew lets us know that the child of whom he is writing got its “origin” [Gk. genesis] from the special force the Holy Spirit or Ruach haKodesh. So Jesus Christ, the Son of the Most High God came from Mary found to be pregnant or found to be with child from the Ruach haKodesh.

“here is how the birth of Yeshua the Messiah took place. when his mother Miryam was engaged to Yosef, before they were married, she was found to be pregnant from the \@Ruach haKodesh\@.” (Matthew 1:18 CJB)

“but while he was thinking about this, an angel of \@ADONAI\@ appeared to him in a dream and said, “Yosef, son of David, do not be afraid to take Miryam home with you as your wife; for what has been conceived in her is from the \@Ruach haKodesh\@.” (Matthew 1:20 CJB)

Mary her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, does not mean that she therefore would have been without sin. She was chosen By God, probably because she was very clean and a real worshipper of God. But that does not mean that she always has been free from original sin and from the start filled with the sanctifying grace. Miryam or Mary/Maria got a virginal conception and became a mother to Jesus but not as she herself who was the daughter of a human father and mother, traditionally known by the names of Saint Joachim and Saint Anne in Roman Catholicism, Jesus coming directly from the Father, the Most High in heaven.

19. No Incarnation

The later concept of the Incarnation of a pre-existing “eternal Son” cannot possibly be forced into the mould revealed by Gabriel. A pre-existent Person who decides to become a man reduces himself, shrinks himself, in order to adopt the form of a human embryo. But such a Person is not conceived or begotten in the womb of a woman. He merely passes through that womb, adopting a new form of existence.

Some think God is a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions, but the Bible is clearly saying that God is a Spirit and not a human being. And a spirit has no flesh and bones, while Jesus for example has such flesh and bones.

“saying, “The Master was truly raised, and has appeared to Shim’on!” And they related what took place on the way, and how He was recognised by them in the breaking of the bread. And as they were saying this, יהושע Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” And being startled and frightened, they thought they had seen a spirit. And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” And saying this, He showed them His hands and His feet.” (Luke 24:34-40 The Scriptures 1998+)

““But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him. “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.” “ (John 4:23-24 The Scriptures 1998+)

God is a Spirit – Not only remote from the body, and all the properties of it, invisible to men, but likewise full of all spiritual perfections, mighty, powerful, and influential, having all the wisdom, love, and holiness.

God has not implanted himself in a human being. Perhaps you could say He did bring over a spark of this spirit, or immortal divinity, in a foetus through its mother. As God had created the first man he now could bring in to the woman Many elements which would bring into live a new human being, a second Adam, created as a fleshly likeness of his Creator, who is a spirit being, but that still would not make that Adam the same as its Creator. Nor would be any conceived child the same as his or her father or mother.

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God 7- a matter of the future

To be continued: Conceive + The one who spoke 2 millennia ago + Begotten

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