A day without taking the symbols
The previous weekends our thought were with the many people who died in the many wars. In World War I it looked for many as if the world would come to an end. And after the horrible battle was finished many thought it would never happen again.

Poppies between the grass and cornflowers in Flanders, Belgium
Chris Adwards, in the first weekend of November talked about the remembrance poppy, which originally in Flanders was a sign of conquest and possibility of preponderance, because the flower was so strong it came back every year again and if nothing was done at the fields seemed to grow with thousands.
During the First World War the Canadian physician and Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae was also astonished by the beauty of that wild flower. This red rose inspired him to write a war poem in the form of a rondeau. “In Flanders fields the poppies blow / Between the crosses, row on row, / That mark our place; and in the sky / The larks, still bravely singing, fly / Scarce heard amid the guns below.”
Soldiers could take up their quarrel with the foe but no matter what happened and how the ground was filled with holes form the bombs, this beuatifu flower brought the only fresh colour next to the blood, into the fields. Many blood was shed and mingled with the red of the flowers which still kept growing as if the world could not harm it.
In Flanders for centuries there has been a battlefield for many countries.
At those battles strangely enough many called to God to help them and where sure that God was on their side. At times, on Christmas night they took time off and came together to sing songs and to remember the birth of Jesus Christ, whom they all called their saviour.
After Jesus had died his followers came together at regular times to remember a more important day than his birth. The day before Jesus was going to die should be the more important day for all Christians. On that night Jesus took bread and wine and asked his disciples to remember what he was doing that night. Later, in the breaking of the bread others could see the sign of Christ.
Jesus had declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.” His followers had to remember his actions and do the breaking of bread as a remembrance of the last meal the apostles and Christ had together, but in the first place as the sign of the New Covenant.
Normally on several days in the year we come together to remember the death of Christ and this breaking of bread on the night before he died.
Bread and wine are also symbols of life and of the products of the earth and the products of God the Creator. It is also a symbol of unification. In a family the members come together to eat with each other and to share the wine. Most welcome friends are also invited at the table. People are not able to live without food, and Jesus has become our food. God has provided the food for life and we can accept Jesus peace offering by sharing the bread and wine with each other.
In the ecclesia we come together as brothers and sisters and invite others to come and join us. The gathering is about welcome, meeting our desperate need, recognising Jesus, compassion, acceptance, undeserved love, God’s provision and the right response of our hearts. This time of the year we not only think about Jesus’ death, but about many who lost their life in ridiculous battles, which could have been avoided when people would have lived more according to the Will of God and not according to their lusts.
Greed and want are those things which bring problems and let other people want to have property what does not originally belong to them. It makes people wanting more than that what God has already given them.
Perhaps therefore it is not bad to stand still and think about our wishes and about our greed and wrong intentions. Even when people where saved from slavery and on their way to the promised land they where not pleased whit what God gave them. Some of them also preferred to take more manna than needed. Israel was given manna and quails when they had no other food in the wilderness. They got fed up with it and we must be careful that our remembrance services don’t become ordinary and turn the special privilege we have of remembering Jesus in bread and wine into the mundane.
Therefore last Sunday we contemplated and we remembered the difficult moments Christ had to go through and the horrible nightmare which befell so many youngsters when they had to go the war in the Great War. We thought of the storm Paul and the members on the ship had to face (Reading of the day: Acts chapters 26-27)
English: A remembrance poppy from Canada, worn on the lapel of a men’s suit. In many Commonwealth countries, poppies are worn to commemorate soldiers who have died in war, with usage most common in the week leading up to Remembrance Day (and Anzac Day in Australia and New Zealand). The use of the poppy was inspired by the World War I poem In Flanders Fields, written by Canadian physician and Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
Accused by the Jews of being a “pestilent fellow … a mover of sedition … and the ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes … [who had] gone about to profane the temple” (Acts 24:5, 6), Paul took his stand, as a follower of Jesus Christ, on the basis of the promises to Israel. The focus of the apostle’s faith was on the promises to the fathers of Israel. On those promises we need to meditate more often.
In all those previous time people did not listen to God and did not have their eyes focused on the love of Christ. Today we still see these people who are blockheads and stick their fingers in their ears so they won’t have to listen. They screw their eyes shut so they won’t have to look, so they won’t have to deal with me face-to-face and let me heal them. (Acts 28:27)
Sunday the 11th of November those who lost their lives fighting in two world wars were remembered at war memorials throughout the world. Not only at war memorials but in hundreds of thousands of homes across the world the eye may have rest for more than a moment on a fading photo of seventy years ago: so too the fresher photos of those lost in many conflicts since. Not only are the soldiers remembered but the many civilians too who lost their lives because of enemy action. Many people in wars were bullied or even killed because of their believes. Our thoughts were with those who gave their live for not giving in to false teachings and for wanting to serve the only One God.
Only those over about seventy-five years-of-age will perhaps recall the joyful release of 1945. Like people imprisoned and delivered from a tremendous storm, people spilled out onto the streets in joyful celebration as the news spread that hostilities had finally ceased. The restrictions, dangers and distresses of six years of war seemed to be over. But it took years to recover. For years in the schools pupils had to share one book with three pupils and ot be happy to have enough chalk to write on the slates. In Belgium, Holland, France and Britain many items that we now take for granted remained rationed for several years. For a decade or more, buildings gutted by bombing remained as silent witnesses.
It took more forty years after the end of the war to pay the U.S. for the loan provided by their government to help economic recovery.
The winter of 1946-47 was the coldest for half a century in England, Holland and Belgium had to face a terrible storm and flood in 1953. Combined with consequent power shortages, post-war life was hard. Normal life did not return for a long time.
At our time of wealth it is not bad to take a moment to stand still at all those hardships.
Because there is still so much trouble in the world, we had a special talk on the Paris meeting on the 17th of October with a collection for the help funds. On the 11th of November we took distance of partaking the breaking of bread at the service, because it was a moment of silence and part of coming to proper understanding of what Jesus had done and why.
As children of God, we have a destination. There are, and have been many storms on the way. We may have suffered loss of property. We, or those near to us, may have been (or are) ill. The record in Acts 27 does not say that Paul was ill, but few people can resist the violent motion of the heaving sea on their stomachs. The people around Paul were afraid of ‘the sea and waves roaring’ but he remained calm. So should we. So must we. The tyrants and the terrors of this world must necessarily come and go but the Word of the Lord remains sure. Peter writes:
And although it wasn’t revealed to them, [it was] to you. For they were just servants of things that those who preached the good news to you have shown you, through the Holy Breath that was sent from heaven, and which even the messengers [of God] want to learn more about. As the result, prepare your minds to understand! Be perfectly sober about your hope of the loving care that will be conveyed to you at the revelation of Jesus the Anointed One. As obedient children, don’t go back to being what you used to be by desiring ignorant things. But, like the Holy One who called you, become holy in all your ways. For it is written, ‘You must be holy, because I am holy!’ So, if you are calling on this Father (who doesn’t discriminate, but judges each one by what he does), it’s time for you to fearfully turn back from your isolation. For, you must recognize that the ransom, which was paid to release you from the worthless way of life that you learned from your fathers, wasn’t paid for with things that corrode, like silver or gold. It was [paid for] with the precious blood of the Anointed One, who is like a spotless and perfect lamb. Although he was known before the arrangement was established, he is being recognized in you at the end of this period in time, whenever you (through him) are being faithful to God (He who raised him from the dead and glorified him), so that your faith and hope will be in God. Now that obedience to the truth has purified your lives; truly care about your brothers and reach out in sincere love for them with your whole hearts. For, you weren’t regenerated as seeds that rot, but by something that doesn’t decay… the promises of the living and enduring God. Because, ‘All flesh is like grass, and its glory is like flowers in a field. Grass dries up and flowers drop, but the words of Jehovah are age-long.’ These are the words that we preached to you as good news.
(1 Peter 1:12-25 2001)
Because our flesh is as grass, and all the esteem of man as the poppyflower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away, but the Word of Elohim, the Most High God remains forever.
As in the Newburry ecclesia where they also celebrated their communion service in a different way from the usual, we only remembered the symbols symbolically. In Newburry their lunch beforehand included bread and wine but they didn’t eat all of it. We also left over for the needy ones and had our thoughts with all the people in distress and need.
But we were very pleased to have been together in a series of an inspired meetings about life and death. The abstinence of something which seems so obvious was not a bad idea to remember all of what God has given us and that we may be blessed to have the Word, announced as Good News to us all.
+
Read also:
++
Also of interest:
- 11 November, a day to remember #1 Until Industrialisation
- 11 November, a day to remember #2 From the Industrialisation
- Leaving the Old World to find better pastures
- 1914 – 2014 preparations
- “In Flanders fields the poppies blow”
- In Flanders Fields
- My French Country Home by Sharon Santoni; 11 november, a day of remembrance
- Jeff Pelline’s In Flanders Fields
- World Agenda for Sustainability
- Apartheid or Apartness #2 Up to 2nd part 20th Century
- Palestine, Israel, God’s people and democracy
+++
Related articles
- Lord’s Table: November meditation (jonwymer.com)
Many of you who grew up in other tribes of Christianity have heard Communion, or the Lord’s Table, referred to as the Eucharist. Eucharist means “thanksgiving” and Christians truly have every reason to be thankful to God for what he has done in his Son, Jesus Christ. - A time of rememberance – where’s my red poppy? (lifeasiknowitv1.wordpress.com)
I kept seeing people wearing red poppies but I was not able to locate one for myself. - A Restoration of the Ancient Order of Things. No. 6 (On the Breaking of Bread. – No. I.) (godsbreath.wordpress.com)
That the breaking of bread in commemoration of the sacrifice of Christ, is a part, or an act of Christian worship, is generally admitted by professors of Christianity. Romanists and Protestants of almost every name agree in this. The Society of Friends form the chief, if not the only exception in Christendom, to this general acknowledgment. - Poppies to remember: Or to forget? (breathofgreenair.wordpress.com)
Poppies have always seemed rather cheerful flowers to me, with their vivacious red petals filling my borders with colour year after year. So to me it has always seemed a bit of a misfit with the somber remembrance of the loss hundreds of thousands of vibrant lives, on the 11th of November every year.
+
Perhaps the poppy is after all the perfect symbol, known as the flower of forgetfulness, its opium juice has been fueling conflict in Afghanistan for countless years. It springs hopeful from the battle-scarred earth, but its hope is cut down every year, as new conflicts arise. - Remembrance Day: Poppy History (ricksdesk.wordpress.com)
This is the story of how the red field poppy came to be known as an internationally recognized symbol of Remembrance. From its association with poppies flowering in the spring of 1915 on the battlefields of Belgium, France and Gallipoli this vivid red flower has become synonymous with great loss of life in war. - Remembrance Day: The 11th Hour of the 11th Day of the 11th Month (zaraalexis.wordpress.com)
It’s a day to remember the members of the armed forces who have died in the line of duty and their families. - How is your love life ~ A Rembrance Day Story for your heart (greatpoetrymhf.wordpress.com)
We used to say. / We would stop and gossip / No time to pray. - The invasion of the poppies – Remembrance Day in London (hanoiansnippets.wordpress.com)
Big Ben’s hands struck 11, its chimes cutting through the dead silent air of Westminster. It’s not uncommon to see thousands of people surrounding this London landmark, but very much so to witness the entire square fall silent in unison for 2 minutes. - Lest We Forget: “In Flanders Fields” (firefliesofhope.typepad.com)
Each year on Veterans Day I try to read the famous war poem, “In Flanders Fields”, by WWI soldier John McCrae [see poem below], and to listen to musical excerpts from ” War Requiem “, by Benjamin Britten, whose solos are set to poetry written by another WWI soldier, Wilfred Owen . - Why I’ll Wear a Poppy on Remembrance Day (studentlife.ryerson.ca)
Over the last week I have noticed poppies sprouting up on lapels and jacket collars.
I think that all of us at Ryerson should be wearing a poppy this week, in the days leading up to Remembrance Day on Sunday.
The poppy, a symbol of remembrance, is our visual pledge as Canadians to never forget those who have fallen in war and military operations.
Feeling-good, search for hapiness and the church
In Flanders many Roman Catholics did not feel good with the happenings in their Catholic church and asked to be written out of the community. though there is something strange with the ciphers the Church and the state are giving, which are not in accordance with certain organisations who also send request to the church to have the christening of them made unfinished.
In 2011, 1.827 Flemish requested to put a line to their registration.
Clearly they are not feeling happy. But do they have an idea what they really would like to have concerning their faith and concerning influences on their way of living?
Many people look for meaning in their lives and struggle to find it, whereas religion offers an answer to the purpose of life and a hope that things will get better. But the last few years in Belgium many people became very disappointed with their faith and with the church to which they belonged, mostly because they were baptised in it. As a so called Catholic country it was common use to have the children baptised at birth. Not many Flemish people are interested in God and the baptism is often just a formality, making part of the tradition, having the feasts marriage, baptism, first communion, second communion and confirmation.
In 2010, there where still 60% of the newborns in Belgium baptized. This number was 40 years ago still above 90%. The rate is strongly dependent on the region in which one lives. The baptism figure is significantly lower in central cities (41.8%) and significantly higher in rural municipalities or urbanized rural municipalities (81.6%). In central cities this figure is also influenced by the relatively high birth rate of the non-indigenous population. But in 2010, only 7% of the Belgian population still went to Mass every week, even though there are figures that speak of only 3%.
Not many go to church and and not many to feel affection for the Pope, which normally as Catholics they should follow. The problem often is that many do not see the difference between Christians and Catholics and between The Church, a church and a church community. To be a Christian is to “consider the others, show respect for other beliefs, religions, etc., to help people in need, …” Catholicism is often equal to violate certain religious rules (which nobody really succeeds).
Though not many follow that so-called infallible Pope, they still remain Catholic and think there is still very little for to make their Catholic infant baptism undone. Many are also afraid that they would loud chances to be happy when they brake with tradition or by not keeping to those known ‘safety bringers’ as a cross on the wall, a Christoffle in the car, etc.
While it is important to focus on the “good” in our lives, they have ideas of the goodness they can receive from burning candles or doing pilgrimage. Family, relationships, career, sexuality and spiritual psychology are matters where they are afraid of to bring something in out of tradition, because it could become deregulated by it.
Often the people are not so interested in the faith and do think it does not matter. But when there is an interfaith marriage often problems do arise because a lot of things where not thought off before. They are not sensitive to and considerate of their spouse’s feelings and belief. Because they are unable to accommodate to differences between themselves, the marriage will suffer. And this certainly includes differences in religious or spiritual beliefs.
Of course, how critical these differences will be depends upon the religious conviction each of the spouses holds. If the major decisions you make in your marriage have little to do with your religious beliefs, than your marriage won’t be very much affected.
If one or both of them has strong beliefs, however, than these beliefs play a large role in the decisions the couple and their family make in their life, in their values and practices, and how they live their life. Often they did not seriously looked into the matter how they made to live their life befor, their values, their morals.
More than once they are both “lukewarm” in their religious practices, but once married and children coming on the way they become under pressure of the family, to adjust to certain practices of tradition. In such case it could bring a solution if one of them want to consider converting to the religion of the other. Discussing it logically, rationally, and see if one of the two can convince the other of the benefits of conversion, could bring a solution. If this option makes sense, than the child-rearing concern is taken care of.
If both are attached to their particular faiths, they will need to negotiate. Beginning with an attitude of openness, acceptance and love is than very important. Talking and making no swift decisions are important than. Each of them should take turns making suggestions on how they would like to raise their children, how they would like to expose them to their respective religions. But both also consider to check their own religion and to make a balance of their faith-life. It could be interesting considering to note a turning-point in life where both choose to take another route. Both finding a new religion which should be closer to the beliefs and practices of both.
At such a point in your life it is important to look at you faith. Consider how you were introduced to your religion by your family. Was it effective? Did you embrace the choice or was it forced upon you? Did you rebel? How did you eventually decide upon your own spiritual beliefs and how strongly did you integrate them into your life?
Sometimes we need to understand what isn’t working, so that we might transcend it and move forward in our lives. We should try to put the previous traditions aside and search for what we really want and search for what is really important, either to follow people, traditions and organisations, or better to follow God, the creator of heaven and earth.
Remember, despite what you want for your children, they will eventually need to make their own choices in the world, and find their own path. This is especially true about the role of religion and spirituality in their lives. Determine ahead of time how you would like your children to be exposed to your respective religions (or even other religions as well). Eventually, they will choose what path is best for them. Give them that space!
As parents, we can point our children in the direction we would like them to go, we can expose them to many different options. Ultimately, it is how we live our lives, how we treat our family members, our friends, strangers, and ourselves, which will guide our children!Our lives are their models, not our words.
We should learn to “make things happen” and to make choice which can alternate our lives. Knowing how important it is to look at the world and the things which happen and to transpose them to our life. Never stopping questioning. Being interested and curious about yourself and about others. Don’t assume that’s “just the way it is”. Look for the choices behind your results. And to be able to find luck, you have to be able to relativate and to be interested and curious about yourself and about others. Don’t assume that’s “just the way it is”. Look for the choices behind your results. Never stopping to learn. The brain is a muscle just like any other, and it will stagnate if you let it. Make it your rule to learn something new every day. Then use what you learn to make your life better. Nurture what you want to grow. Many many people are (figuratively) wondering where the roses are in their life, yet they spend all their time planting and nourishing weeds. You reap what you sow. That’s just the way it is. there we do have to make the choice which shall bring us more goodness in life.
Very important is not to lie to yourself. Telling lies to yourself is the most harmful form of disrespect. Write out ways in which you are untruthful to yourself, and how to correct it. Never give up on life. Be interested and curious about yourself and about others. Don’t assume that’s “just the way it is”. Look for the choices behind your results.
Don’t waste your time complaining about what you can’t control (weather, other people, economy). Concentrate on what you can control, like who you hug, what you read, how much you laugh, where you go, what you do, what you think about.
And to be able to be in control you have to start with controlling yourself, and knowing which way you want to go, what you want to believe and where you want to go for.
Do you want to live your life just for the now and then are do you want to live your life because you are expecting a reward?
We think you are on the wrong track if your goal is only recognition and a reward at the end of the track.
You only live once, and it is now you have to make it. But you should be aware there could be more. There is an important promise of which you should take account and which could change your life and your future.
It is something which can enable you to “Stand like a Rock” and be sure of your life.
Instead of thinking what other people think start getting to know that it is more important to think what the Creator would think.
A feel-good factor isn’t enough for the long haul through life. You better go and look into yourself and look for the relation you want to have with everything around you and with the maker of that all.
It is first in this world we do have to find the beauty, the love and the genuine kindness. It is here that we do have to work relations. and to make our relationships work we first of all do have to build up the right relationship with the most important person in the universe. And that is the Maker of that universe Himself, who we have to get to know and to love. Without proper love to Him it shall not be so easy to have the proper love to others.
Recognising that Someone is in control is a great help to being content with your situation, whatever it is.
Many people look for meaning in their lives and struggle to find it, whereas religion offers an answer to the purpose of life and a hope that things will get better. Do not wait until tomorrow. Tackle it today. From now on make work of making choice and taking the right decisions.

This is the Burton Christadelphians new logo for their website, specially designed to show the importance we attach to reading the Bible for ourselves, individually and collectively.
Dare to question your ‘current faith’, the denomination to which you belong. Look at your church and compare it with what they do and teach with the Book they are so called following. Have a look at the doctrines at the bottom of this page of the Burton Christadelphians. There you shall the words on which Christ himself based his beliefs and of what he himself told others to belief. You should question what you want to follow if you want to be called a Christian.
On the mentioned page you shall be able to find Bible quotes. Do not just take them for guaranteed, but dare to look them up in your Bible and compare the printed words with the concordance of your Bible. As our our aim is to follow as closely as possible the teaching and example of Jesus, as recorded in the Bible, we do listen to these words written down in the Book of Books, the Bible. Can you see the importance of having Scripture to back up our beliefs?
+
Please do read more about it:
- Feel-good Factor?
- About Brethren in Christ
- About Burton Christadelphians
- Christadelphians – Bible Believing People
- What’s Wrong with “User Friendly”?
- Evangelism takes many forms
- How to Feel Good About Yourself
- Stop Comparing Yourself to Others
- Respect Yourself
- Icons and crucifixes
++
also of interest to read:
available until December 2012 on our Multiply sites (and afterwards to look for on our WordPress sites:
- Baptized by immersion to Gain membership in the church
- June’s Survey – Baptism by immersion: Necessary for salvation?
- Belief of the things that God has promised
- Rebirth and belonging to a church
- Luck
- How shall the film of your life be?
- Happiness is like manna
- Have a real happy day today!
- Rest thy delight on Jehovah
- Thirst for happiness and meaning
+++
Related articles
- The Struggle With Religion (ptl2010.com)
There is a struggle with religion in today’s church, although this struggle has been going on ever since there have been different denominations in the church. What exactly is religion anyway? What would you say religion means?
+
There are many religions out there that claim the label “Christianity”, but are not true to the definition of that label. Some don’t even understand the basic premise of true Christianity, namely the death and resurrection of Christ and that this one act purchased our freedom and eternal life.
+
Following Christ means exactly that, follow Christ…not a man. If my Pastor leaves, I am not going with him because Jesus is right where I am already. Follow Christ, not a denomination. We all have a preference in a church and their particular style of worship and so on, and that is fine. However, are you worshiping Jesus or are you worshiping or following the denomination’s particular way of worship and or ceremony? - Suffer the little children to come unto me (guardian.co.uk)
When might it be in the best interests of a Jewish 10-year-old to be baptised as a Christian? That was the question Judge Platt had to decide at Romford county court in Essex earlier this year. His judgment, released for publication at the end of last week, makes fascinating reading.It involves a couple who were divorced in 2010 after 14 years of marriage. They had two children: a girl who is now nearly 11 and a boy who is nearly six. Both parents are Jewish, as are all four grandparents.
+
What made things more complicated was that the father had decided to become a Christian. After the marriage had come to an end but while the couple were still living under the same roof, the father experienced what he described as a meeting with God. “He started attending church each Sunday which naturally excited the interest of his children,” the judge said. “They asked if they could come with him and, with the agreement of the mother, they have been attending church regularly ever since.”
+But what was the judge to do now? By law, his “paramount consideration” must be the “child’s welfare”. The court has no power to order the girl to baptised. What the judge had to do was to decide whether he should stop the father from taking steps leading towards the child’s baptism, as the mother had asked.
In the end, the judge was satisfied that the child’s “welfare interests are best served by allowing her to be enrolled in a baptism class and to present herself for baptism into the Christian church as soon as she is ready”. However, the judge ruled that her confirmation into the church should not take place before she is 16, unless the mother agrees.
- 200 Years Behind the Times (from the BBC website) (sandystrachan.wordpress.com)
Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini has described the Roman Catholic Church as being “200 years behind” the times.
+
Catholics lacked confidence in the Church, he said in the interview. “Our culture has grown old, our churches are big and empty and the church bureaucracy rises up, our religious rites and the vestments we wear are pompous.”Unless the Church adopted a more generous attitude towards divorced persons, it will lose the allegiance of future generations, the cardinal added. The question, he said, is not whether divorced couples can receive holy communion, but how the Church can help complex family situations.And the advice he leaves behind to conquer the tiredness of the Church was a “radical transformation, beginning with the Pope and his bishops”.
“The child sex scandals oblige us to undertake a journey of transformation,” Cardinal Martini says, referring to the child sex abuse that has rocked the Catholic Church in the past few years.
He was not afraid, our correspondent adds, to speak his mind on matters that the Vatican sometimes considered taboo, including the use of condoms to fight Aids and the role of women in the Church.
- How Protestantism Lost Its Mind (theamericanconservative.com)
The Todd Akin flap, in which the suburban St. Louis congressman revealed a less than adequate grasp of human reproduction, could hardly have been timed better to dramatize the implications an Aug. 7 referendum giving Missouri schoolchildren the right to opt out of science classes on religious grounds. Parents should be free to keep their children out of the public school system entirely, but an a la carte approach to classwork entirely defeats the point of general education.
+
Teaching is an exercise of what the Romans, and the Roman Catholic Church, have called magisterium, a kind of authority. It always carries moral overtones, and it’s an explicitly hierarchical concept. Why the more extreme Protestant instinctively rebels against this sort of authority should be obvious enough. And when, as in the case of science education, reflexive anti-clericalism combines with doctrinal objections, the reaction is powerful.
+
Protestantism is a matter of degrees, however: between an infallible papacy and the self-ordained soapbox preacher there are many levels. But the intermediary layers that once counteracted America’s more radically Protestant tendencies have lately collapsed. Episcopalians and other old-line, more traditionally “authoritarian” churches no longer provide a common culture for the country. What has changed is not just a question of numbers but also of status. Liturgical Christians once wielded prestige out of proportion to their percentage of the population, even when that percentage was much greater. Protestant radicalization is not only a consequence of evangelicalism’s postwar growth but also an effect of cultural leveling and rebellion against privilege (at least, old sorts of class privilege) throughout the 20th century. A mass-market commercial mentality and left-wing concerns for equality have undercut the status of the old Protestant elites from a secular direction, leaving the purer Protestantism with a greater sense of self-confidence.
+
What’s more, the distinction between popular politics and the religious congregation breaks down under the influence of radical Protestantism. - Is spirituality the antithesis of religion? (joelmlay.com)
It is not uncommon – actually it is fashionable these days – to hear people express anti-religion sentiment, saying, “I am spiritual but not religious”, especially when talking to strangers or new acquaintances. (There are some good examples in Match.com). The impetus is the desire to distance oneself from formalities. - Why Can’t This Atheist Accept Her Husband’s Loss of Faith? (patheos.com)
He had “been a Christian” because his family was, too, but when he actually thought about it, he realized it was all just ridiculous.
+
Then there’s the birth of their son and the inevitable question of whether they should take him to church (correct answer: No) just so he has a “spiritual base,” even though both parents reject it. - Switzerland: Kirchensteuer Probably Deadly Wounded. (mundabor.wordpress.com)
It is a mystery to me how a person might think he is not a Catholic anymore because he refuses to pay a mafia-like monetary contribution (truly redolent of the Sicilian pizzo) to the local Church. Still, I do not come from the German-speaking world, where people tend, erm, to be a bit more rigid.Now a Swiss citizen (a true Catholic, but fed up with the local mafia) decided to stop paying the Kirchensteuer and – obviously - remain a Catholic. Unsurprisingly, the local hierarchy was not persuaded baptism and orthodoxy are enough: if you don’t pay the pizzo to us, they said to her, you aren’t Catholic anymore. Kapiert?
+
the membership to the Catholic Church is now formally separated from the support to the administrative apparatus through the Kirchensteuer. Therefore, every Swiss Catholic can refuse to pay the pizzo (the same way you and I don’t pay it) in the full knowledge of remaining as much a member of the Church as you and I are.
- Christian/Catholic Priests Are The Victim Of Those They Molest (truelogic.wordpress.com)
The Catholic Church, unbelievably, continues to receive money fromdumb sheepChristian followers. These followers apparently think that when they stand before their God on judgement day that he will not ask them; “Why did you continue to support an establishment that had done such great harm to my children?” Giving money to the Catholic Church is to support child molesters/pedophiles by assisting in the payment of their salary, assisting in defending the priest through money paid to lawyers, money to move these guilty priest from church to church to avoid punishment, paying off victims and others to avoid justice. - When Other Christians Become Catholic (doohan.id.au)
Each year, many adults who have never been baptized become Catholic. In the United States, these adults are outnumbered by baptized Christians of other denominations who seek to enter into the full communion of the Catholic Church. In the minds of many Catholics – indeed, in many parish preparation programs – there is little difference between the two groups. Baptized and catechized Christians are often placed in programs with those who have not been baptized.
+
The appropriate rite is that of Reception of Baptised Catholics into the Full Communion of the Catholic Church and not the more commonly utilised Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. Although the former might be considered a ‘sub-rite’ of the latter, if only because they are found in the same ritual book, the two rites refer to two distinctive pastoral situations. The confusion of the two, and thus the use of the RCIA for those baptised Christians who are seeking to become Catholic, creates a confusion about their proper status, and thus a confusion within the person seeking to become Catholic. The other contributing factor is a belief that the same preparation process – of weekly meetings, and other activities – can cover the different ‘categories’ of those who are seeking to become Catholic. - Living ‘in the middle’, in between and keeping the peace. (1catholicsalmon.com)
England is a secular country, boasting secular values and ways of life. Living here has brought Faith issues to the fore and continues to do so on a daily basis. Because of this I ‘ve had to make a conscious decision about how I am to live as a Catholic Christian. There’s no room to manoeuvre half-heartedly through the secular mazes I’m confronted with from day-to-day. I’ve had to make my position as a Christian quite clear, and for me there’s no going back on this. It’s too important.
Religious Practices around the world
Religious Practices around the world, Compiled and Explained
- posted by Andy Rau
world?
What and where are the largest churches in the world? All of these questions and hundreds of others are answered at adherents.org[1], a massive repository of religion statistics, demographic information, and other facts about religious beliefs all around the world. Some interesting places to start are this list of the predominant religion[2] of every country in the world; an extensive database of famous religious figures[3], and a description of the largest religious groups in the U.S.[4] Church leaders, missionaries, and anyone who’s curious about the world’s religious practices will find hours’ worth of reading material.
– Links in this story –
- over 43,870 adherent statistics and religious geography citations: references to published membership/adherent statistics and congregation statistics for over 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, movements, ultimate concerns, etc.
- influential and famous adherents of over 100 different religious groups (famous Methodists, famous Jews, famous Catholics, famous Zoroastrians, famous Jehovah’s Witnesses, famous Theosophists, etc.)
- lists of prominent people(actors, politicians, authors, U.S. presidents, artists, musicians, Supreme Court justices, film directors, etc.) classified by religious affiliation. These lists are linked to thousands of detailed religious/spiritual biographies.
- In most countries of the world, a majority of people (over 50%) are adherents of the same religion.
- Prominent, Notable, Celebrity, Influential, Famous Members of Various Religions and Denominations
[4] http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html
- the United States has a greater number of religious groups than any other country in the world
Related articles
- How about a module on religious practices, too? (todayonline.com)
the next step is to have a compulsory module on Comparative Religion, to educate our population on the doctrines and practices of world religions.It would touch on the philosophical concerns of religion, from ethics to the various ways of attaining salvation.
One who takes the course would benefit from a better understanding of the diverse views of human beliefs and practices.
- Religious freedom: US not fit to preach (english.ruvr.ru)
“In the Obama Administration we’ve elevated religious freedom as a diplomatic priority”, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said while speaking at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “The United States will also stand for the value, the principle that religious freedom represents, not only for us but for people everywhere.”This poses two main questions: why would a government, in a country where church has been separated from state, try to impose its own vision on something as delicate as religious matters on other sovereign states? And is it in a position to do so?
+
Earlier this year, Pope Benedict XVI warned of a “grave threat” to religious liberty in the United States. He noted that America’s historical experience of religious freedom has been eroded “in the face of powerful new cultural currents” which are “not only directly opposed to core moral teachings of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but increasingly hostile to Christianity.” Currently, Christianity is practiced by more than 75% of the US citizens. - US says world has lost religious freedom (bigpondnews.com)
The United States says the world is sliding backwards on religious freedoms, criticising China for cracking down on Tibetan Buddhists and hitting out at Pakistan and Afghanistan.As the State Department unveiled its first report on religious freedoms since the start of the Arab Spring, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Monday it was a ‘signal to the worst offenders’ that the world was watching.
+
The 2011 International Religious Freedom Report noted that last year governments increasingly used blasphemy laws to ‘restrict religious liberty, constrain the rights of religious minorities and limit freedom of expression.’
+The report also warned that European nations undergoing major demographic shifts have seen ‘growing xenophobia, anti-Semitism, anti-Muslim sentiment, and intolerance toward people considered ‘the other.”
It complains of a ‘rising number of European countries, including Belgium and France, whose laws restricting dress adversely affected Muslims and others’.
- World Backsliding on Religious Freedom (theepochtimes.com)
At a time when at least some countries are loosening up on political expression, the world is sliding backward on religious freedom, says U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.Speaking on the release of the United States “International Religious Freedom Report” for 2011 on July 30, Clinton said now more than ever, it was urgent to highlight religious freedom.“When we consider the global picture and ask whether religious freedom is expanding or shrinking the answer is sobering,” she said at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in D.C. “More than a billion people live under governments that systematically suppress religious freedom.”
+In Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, and Burma, where regimes had fallen or moved to less restrictive practices, people were taking the first steps in newfound freedoms. The transition path, however, is fraught with its own dangers, particularly for minorities.
Violence against Coptic Christians had increased in Egypt, for example, as had incidents against the Muslim Rohingya ethnic minority in Burma, who remain severely ostracized.
The expanded use and abuse of blasphemy laws to further restrict religious liberty and expression was also cited as a growing trend. In Saudi Arabia, blasphemy against the Wahabi interpretation of Sunni Islam is punishable by death; while in Indonesia, the penalty is imprisonment.
In Pakistan, anyone blaspheming or criticizing blaspheming laws is vulnerable to assassination by extremists.
A rise in anti-Semitism was identified as a disturbing trend. The report cites Venezuela for anti-Semitic statements in official media and Iran for unrestrained Holocaust denial. In Europe, Ukraine and France saw incidents of Jewish cemeteries and synagogues being desecrated, and Hungary saw the rise of an anti-Semitic political party.
Some governments were also cited for targeting minorities as “violent extremists,” the report citing Bahrain, Russia, Iraq, and Nigeria for the trend.
“Authorities often failed to distinguish between peaceful religious practice and criminal or terrorist activities,” the report said.
- Fastest Growing Religious Group in America: The Amish (?!?) (patheos.com)
Ohio State University researchers are reporting that the Amish may be one of the fastest growing religious group in America. It’s arguable that that distinction currently belongs to the non-religious:
+
A new census of the Amish population in the United States estimates that a new Amish community is founded, on average, about every 3 ½ weeks, and shows that more than 60 percent of all existing Amish settlements have been founded since 1990.
+
“The Amish are one of the fastest-growing religious groups in North America,” said Joseph Donnermeyer, professor of rural sociology in Ohio State’s School of Environment and Natural Resources, who led the census project. “They’re doubling their population about every 21 to 22 years, primarily because they produce large families and the vast majority of daughters and sons remain in the community as adults baptized into the faith, starting their own families and sustaining their religious beliefs and practices.” - China steps up over religious practice in Xinjiang (fmnnow.com)
Local officials in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region have taken strict measurements to prohibit religious practices among Party members, Public officials and students, as many muslims in Xinjiang are fasting during Ramadan.According to local government website of Yecheng County in Kashi, the county conducted a full deployment during Ramadan starting from July 20. All Party members, public employees and school students were prohibited to participate any forms of religious practice. While authorities responded the restrictions of Ramadan are out of health concerns. A regional spokeswoman, Hou Hanmin, was quoted in Global Times as saying authorities encourage people to “eat properly for study and work” but would not force anyone to eat during Ramadan. - Religious Accommodations in the Workplace (blogs.lawyers.com)
f you’re Christian in the United States, you may not have given much thought to how people of other religions observe holidays. After all, many Christians in the United States take it for granted that they won’t have to work on religious holidays. With the exception of some retail stores, most companies close entirely for Christian holidays, including Good Friday, Easter and Christmas. But what if you’re Jewish and observe Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, when work is forbidden? What if you’re Muslim and want to pray five times daily, even though some of those prayer times fall during business hours? What if you are you are a Sikh man who wears a turban but works at a business that wants you to wear a baseball hat with the company logo on it?It is against the law for your employer to treat you differently or to harass you because of your religious, moral and ethical beliefs. Your employer must respect your sincere and meaningful religious beliefs, and must make a reasonable effort to accommodate your religious practices unless they cause an undue hardship on the company. - Austria gives go ahead on circumcisions after religious leaders make appeals (lampandherald.wordpress.com)
In an article for Reuters, Michael Shields writes that physicians ”in Austria’s westernmost province have been cleared to resume circumcisions after the Justice Ministry reassured them that they can perform the religious practice without risking criminal charges.”Shields says that apparently a regional court ruling in Germany caused confusion when it was reported that “the practice supported by Muslims and Jews amounted to physical abuse.” Doctors were then advised to suspend the ruling.
+If your employer discriminates against you on the basis of your religion, you may be entitled to relief in the form of back pay, hiring, promotion, reinstatement, front pay, reasonable accommodation, or other forms of relief. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 also allows you to recover your attorney’s fees.
If you believe that you’ve been discriminated against on the basis of religion in your employment, an employment discrimination attorney can help you review your options.
- The DC Folly Trolley – 07/29/12 (dcwreck.wordpress.com)
Eric Cantor seems to believe he could not practice his religion anywhere else in the world as freely as he can in the United States.I wonder how countries like England, France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and many others would interpret such a statement, to say nothing of Israel.
Of course, he could be a Pastafarian. In which case I’m not certain which countries allow freedom to practice those beliefs.
Taking his remarks about the right to practice religion freely in the U S more as a statement of American exceptionalism rather than one of limitations on religious practices in other countries, Eric Cantor’s statement does not quite ring true.
I wonder how countries like England, France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and many others would interpret such a statement, to say nothing of Israel.
Tragic coach crash in the Swiss Alps
Last week was a black one for Belgium, but in which we saw a lot of solidarity and a certain unity of feeling in the Dutch, French and German speaking parts of the country.
Though every three seconds a child dies and annually in the USA only 8,000 children are injured in school bus crashes annually, this road accident called for much attention because so many died in one go.

Coach crashed Tuesday night, in a tunnel on the A9 road between Sierre and Sion
Shortly after 9PM on Tuesday night a Belgian coach carrying school children from schools in Heverlee (Leuven) and Lommel (Limburg) had crashed in Sierre in the Swiss Alps. The entire front of the coach was destroyed as a result of the impact. Several victims were stuck in the wreckage. The front seats of the bus were all smashed against each other and there was blood everywhere.
22 youngsters aged 11 and 12 and hailed from the Sint-Lamberts School in Heverlee near Leuven (Flemish Brabant) and from the primary school ‘t Stekske in Lommel (Limburg) their live was ended suddenly after a week of a lot of fun at a skiing holiday in the resort of Saint Luc in Val d’Anniviers in the Swiss alps. 28 people were also seriously injured. The two drivers from Aarschot, teacher Raymond Theunis, 54, and youth leader Veerle Vanheukelom, 38, both of whom were from Lommel lost their lives with another two adults.
Under the victims was also the 11-year-old British boy Sebastian Bowles, a pupil at St Lambertus school in Heverlee, Belgium, had moved with his parents to the country from Crouch End, north London, two years ago. Sebastian’s father, Edward, a banker, and his mother, Ann, returned to Belgium from Switzerland on Thursday night.

The front wall of Saint Lambertus school in Heverlee, Belgium, has been adorned with flowers and sympathy messages. Photograph: Getty Images
The headteacher of Our Lady of Muswell, in north London, Teresa McBride, said: “Our school community is still reeling from the shock of this terrible accident. Our thoughts and prayers are with Sebastian’s family at this tragic time.
“He was a wonderfully vibrant boy who is so fondly remembered by pupils, staff and parents at Our Lady of Muswell. He was known by staff as ‘the little cherub’. He will be greatly missed.
More than 20,000 people have signed the online book of condolence that was opened by the Sint-Lambertus School in Heverlee (Flemish Brabant). The book of condolence was closed on Saturday evening. Within just three days 20,089 people left messages of support.The Federal Health Department confirmed the news that Swiss doctors had given the green light for the injured child’s return early on Saturday. The girl has been treated for her injuries in a hospital in the Swiss capital Bern.
She will be transferred to the Gasthuisberg Hospital in Leuven where another 14 children are currently being treated for injuries they sustained in the crash.
While the injured children from Heverlee are close to home, the Leuven hospital is still a long way from the Limburg town of Lommel where a number of the injured children come from.
The authorities will look into the possibility of transferring the Lommel children to hospital closer to home.
Six children were already able to return to their homes in Belgium with their parents on Thursday evening.
The bodies of the 6 adults and 22 children that died in Tuesday evening’s accident were repatriated to Belgium on Friday. They are now awaiting their final resting place in their respective home towns of Lommel (Limburg), Aarschot and Heverlee (both Flemish Brabant).
For the parents of the children aged 11 and 12it must have been terrible moments, and the waiting for news of their children must have been horrible. for those who had only one child their family is totally broken and left with an empty space never to be replaced again.
The previous days and this weekend we took the time to pray for the sorely tried, but also looked at the many other children who die every three seconds and who never get such attention as those who died in this tragic car accident.
Friday was a national day of mourning.
At 11am local time in Belgium, children, politicians and workers marked the minute’s silence. Travellers at bus, underground and railway stations were asked to pause until church bells sounded the end of the moment of remembrance. In Brussels, government officials and politicians gathered outside buildings.
At the European commission headquarters, flags were flying at half-mast and a number of commercial television stations halted transmissions for much longer than a minute, cancelling some programmes altogether.
At St Lambertus school, children who gathered in the playground for the minute’s silence were handed white balloons to release.
Staffan Nilsson, President and Martin Westlake, Secretary General on behalf of the European Economic and Social Committee offered their heartfelt condolences and deepest sympathy to the family and friends of the persons so tragically killed. Tey said: “We are bereaved and mourning together with the 11 million citizens of Belgium in particular and 500 million Europeans in general.”
Pope Benedict XVIassociated himself also in prayer with the suffering of the mourning families, entrusting the victims to the mercy of God and asking Him to welcome them into His light.

The bus carrying 46 children, four teachers and two drivers slammed into an Alpine tunnel wall as they returned from a week-long ski trip. The crash is believed to be one of the deadliest in Switzerland for 30 years
We do know that people when they die become at their end of their life. According to the Bible then it is finished and the body becomes dust again, while the victim cannot feel, see or do anything, because it knows nothing any more, because life has left the body and there is nothing more to go out of it or to continue a certain afterlife. It may seem hard but we should see this gives more comfort and makes it less hard to continue living for the others. Because they know there is no more suffering for the child any more, not having to be conscious of the anger and sorrow of those who are still alive.
Though our profound sympathy goes to the injured and their families we do hope they shall be able to find some light in the dark and that this moment of grieve can strengthen them to continue this life, keeping in their mind the pictures of the beautiful moments they had with their children.They should nourish those warm nice moments they had together and get together their strength to tackle the daily life in remembrance of their daughter or boy.
We do pray that they can find reasons for all the things that happened in the short life of the child, and that they may find the hope in the promise God has given us, that one day it shall be possible again to meet each other again. We all should look out for that time, which can come soon, that Jesus shall resurrect all the dead to give them allowance to enter the Kingdom of God.
Let us take every sad moment to learn from and to grow, preparing ourselves to be ready to enter the promise of a future life, without pain or any suffering.
In Lommel on the Dutch border, where several of the children went to a local primary school, a memorial service is to be held next Wednesday.
The Belgian royal family and the Queen of the Netherlands are due to attend: six of the dead children were Dutch.
+
Dutch version / Nederlandse versie: Jongeren gedragen in de harten van vele Belgen
++
Accident in pictures: Busongeval in beeld
duizenden ontroerende steunbetuigingen
Busongeluk in Sierre – Stad Leuven Rouwpagina
‘t Stekske Schoolkolonie Lommel
Condoleances: Lommel Steunbetuiging
Facebook funeral parlour: Facebook Rouwpagina
+++
Related articles
- Swiss coach crash kills dozens, most of them schoolchildren – The Guardian (guardian.co.uk)
Two small Belgian towns are in mourning after a bus crash in the Swiss Alps left at least 22 schoolchildren dead. - Swiss coach crash: London school pays tribute to British victim (guardian.co.uk)
- ‘No alcohol’ in Switzerland coach crash driver – autopsy – BBC News (bbc.co.uk)
- At least 28 killed in Swiss Alps bus crash: WSJ (marketwatch.com)
- School bus horror: 22 kids and six adults killed in Swiss Alps ski trip coach crash (mirror.co.uk)
- Twenty-eight killed in Swiss bus crash (oyiabrown.wordpress.com)
The head of the Cantonal police Christian Varone described the crash as “unprecedented”. - Belgium coach crash in Switzerland tunnel kills 28 (mygreekbooking.wordpress.com)
More than 200 people and eight helicopters were involved in the rescue operation.Swiss journalist Ruth Seeholzer told the BBC that the two-lane tunnel was not busy with traffic when the accident happened and driving conditions were normal. - (Switzerland)Belgian coach crash in Swiss tunnel (leggotunglei808.wordpress.com)
- 22 schoolchildren among dead in Swiss bus crash (ctv.ca)
- 28 people, including 22 children, die in Swiss bus accident (theprovince.com)
- 28 people, including 22 children, die in Swiss bus accident (calgaryherald.com)
- Swiss bus crash leaves 28 dead (cbc.ca)
- Schoolchildren among 28 dead in Swiss bus crash – CTV.ca (ctv.ca)
- Switzerland coach crash: ‘we should all pause for thought’ – euronews (euronews.com)
It was Belgium’s first National Day of Mourning for eight years.At EU institutions in Brussels, in workplaces, train stations and elsewhere around the country, people came together to remember the victims of the school bus crash in Switzerland. - Over 20 Belgian children die in Swiss bus crash (foxnews.com)
- Bus crash kills 28 on Swiss ski holiday – CBS News (cbsnews.com)
- Mystery deepens over Swiss bus crash (smh.com.au)
+ ‘This was worse than anything you can imagine’: 28 dead in school bus crash - Blog chronicles joy of Belgian kids before crash (sacbee.com)
A torch-light march. Ravioli and meatball dinners. Rides in a funicular railway. A sing-a-long and a dress-up casino evening.Those were some of the things that made last week “mega-cool” for 24 sixth graders at the St. Lambertus school in a hotel in Saint-Luc, high in the Swiss Alps.
Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant
In 2007 there appeared already a Manifest for the believers in the Low Countries. It was started by people from the Protestant church of the Netherlands (PKN = Protestantse Kerk Nederland) and at the turn of the year the Flemish Catholic priests launched a Manifest for believers Manifest “Gelovigen nemen het woord”, “Believers take the word”. Both the manifests wanted to take care that their church community would be growing and be a union of believers.
Both manifests with a new one this month are concerned by the falling church-membership and the loss of believers. The first manifest: Manifest ‘Wij kiezen voor eenheid’ or ‘We choose for unity’ consecrated on the union we would like to see between all those who call themselves Christian. For the writers of the manifest it does not go up that there is so much enormous disunion in the churches in the Dutch-language religiously of the Beneluxand therefore they want to call the believers to go for a joint slogan: ‘We choose for unity’.
Their “Manifesto for unity” got not such an attention from the public and did not get so known. The manifesto for believers Manifest “Gelovigen nemen het woord” presented to the Belgian belief community at the turn of the year hit like a bomb. It got the approval from 8233 religiously but had probably more counter parts. A lot of Roman Catholics launched a counter attack. In the month January the reaction was so violently that the initiators against the end of the month, or begin this month took away their website with further definitions. (The manifesto itself can still be found.)
The intentions of the Manifesto for religiously had been meant honourably to have the Roman Catholics embrace their Catholic Church in Flanders. The writers of the manifesto are well disposed towards the Roman Catholic Churchand do not want to bear it ill feelings but life in the brewery appeared when they outed their grievances and presented their proposals to get some more life in church again.Quickly they were compared to unbelieving and their ideas as “disbelievingly” and they became reproached to have taken over the protestant language and by doing so already committed treachery to the Roman Holy Catholic Church.
By the religious that followed masses by the undertakers of the manifest now even more confusion crept in and created despair. That enthusiast priests that called up the ordinary man in the street to come to work together building up the church for today and for the future felt now abused and contemplated through the Catholic establishment as “Heretical “.
Although we may know we that heresy or heterodoxy points to a deliberate and intentional deviation of what in a particular belief community or belief or church community is considered as being part of their fundamental belief teachings and laws. As it is also an accusation levied against members of another group which has beliefs which conflict with those of the accusers, we can see certain conflicts came up in the debate, but which should not be in contrast to the Roman Catholic Law.
The signatories of the “Manifesto for believers” had certainly no intentions at all to let an other separation follow the already awful thinned out group of religious men in the small country Belgium. The sex-scandals in the Roman Catholic Church did already too much damage. The clergy as well as the believers needed the commotion like they needed a hole in the head. They want to adhere to the Catholic teachings but would prefer to go back to the first century church. They do think they have enough teachings provided in the Holy Bible so that men do not need to bind others to man made teachings or to restrict others by their own teachings. They just wanted to go back to the teachings which were already part of the church life in early centuries. They also found that the church had to put away certain teachings which where brought into existence for all sorts of reasons, of which some were financial (as protecting the church property).
We are also not quite sure that the signatories could be charged with Apostasy because their action should not be considered as ‘a defection or revolt’, and they do not want to get a disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by any person. The debate on the function of the woman in church has been a difficult point for many years already in the Roman Catholic Church. Rudolf Bultmann and the “character” of debates over ordination of women and gay priests brought forward many accusations of heresy in the past and again today.
Writing amidst the turbulence of the political, monetary, clergy paedophile abuse sex-scandals, and church population crisis, the writers of the Flemish manifest did not want to counter the high-handed or stubborn traditionalist and conservative Catholics. They saw how the Church was loosing souls and wanted to save them and to get people back into the church.
The same as smoking is harmful for your health, the Rooms Katholieke Vliegenmeppers (The Roman Catholic Flyswatters) do find that the priests who wrote and signed the Manifest for believers are as harmful for the people souls welfare. They do call the believers not to receive the Holy Sacraments of these priests and not to go to partake their Holy Mass. They, with many others, do find that those priests who call for a change in the Roman Catholic Church, are heretics and unworthily to do the Mass or ‘ Misoffer’, the “Sacrifice of the Mass”.
According Katholieke Actie Vlaanderen (Catholic Action Flanders) there has come a schism in the Belgian Catholic Church. (See: Ketters in Vlaanderen = Heretics in Flanders) The accusation levied against those Catholic priests who are concerned about the decline of the Roman Catholic Church is somewhat strange. First of all those makers of the manifest do everything to keep the Roman Catholic Church on its feet in those turbulent times. They want the best for the survival of the Catholic Church in Belgium.
They do not want to undermine accepted morality and cause tangible evils, damnation, or other punishment. Contrary they are against the silent hierarchical Roman Church, who wants to do a cover-up operation. They do not want to sweep the many child sex abuses under the carpet. They want to make an end to the possible cause of so much damage. Therefore they ask that priests could get a normal sexual life, have a wife and children.
The Roman Catholic Church holds Protestantism as espousing numerous heresies, while some Protestants retrospectively consider Roman Catholicism the “Great Apostasy“.
Today several people do find the makers of the ‘Manifest for believers’ to be priests who use the terminology and ideas of protestants, and therefore should be called protestants and not Catholics any more.
The stressing and enlargement of the role of the laity is being considered one of the main points of protestantism. For the Roman Catholics Ordination is sacred and comprehends that the person who is following the ‘call of God’ becomes consecrated (set apart for the administration of various religious rites) in which he acts as the bride of Christ. Being ‘married’ to Christ he should not have any other woman and abstain from any form of sex or sexual contact, because he has given his full life and body to the Lord. Calling for an ordination of women is desacralising the priesthood, opponents say. For the conservative Roman Catholics the role of the priest and servant of God giving out the sacraments should remain the role that an ordained male person has to fulfil.For the Roman Catholics who shout “everything for Flanders and Flanders for Christ” a layman perhaps could ‘lead’ administratively a parish, but would not be a shepherd. For them the manifestos confuse or mix lay and clergyman with each other. The language of the manifest, using words like “voorgaan” ‘precede in the Sunday celebrations’ or conduct the services and “liturgisch voorganger” ‘liturgical minister’ is protestant talk and not worthy of a Roman Catholic. For the conservatives words as ‘liturgical leader/pastor/minister’ for a priest is not recognising the sacramental holiness of that servant of God. Several Catholics question what those notions mean. For the conservatives a ‘Sunday celebration’ is not Mass per se a Holy Mass or Eucharistic Offering!
The matter brought forward by the Flemish manifesto that not only ordained people who abstain from sex can bless the bread of the Lord’s Supper and say “This is my body” after which they may hand out the symbol of Christ his Body and Sacrifice is for the conservative Catholics also degrading the Holy Sacrament and blasphemy. *
Their call also to become all, men and women, workers in Christ, is considered an awful protestant idea.
From the homily of Pope Bendict XVI (11 June 2010): “The Church too must use the shepherd’s rod, the rod with which he protects the faith against those who falsify it, against currents which lead the flock astray. The use of the rod can actually be a service of love. Today we can see that it has nothing to do with love when conduct unworthy of the priestly life is tolerated. Nor does it have to do with love if heresy is allowed to spread and the faith twisted and chipped away.”
The conservatives do find that a lay men can not bring a sermon because according to the Roman Catholic Church such a task is only for the ordained, priest, bishop, cardinal or Pope. “Lay may not may preach. Point. A sermon is not ‘the word Gods’, but an explanation by the H. Gospel” the Catholic Action says and therefore the writers of the manifest asking to have laymen also to be able to preach is one more reason they are heretics.
In the next chapter we shall look at the reaction about disrespect for the body of Christ the believers who take the word have, according to the conservatives who are fed up with the idea that ordinary man put their hands in the goblet with the Holy Host. Certainly women keep off their hands from the tabernacle! the conservatives say.
In the next chapter we shall see why for the dis-pleasured the matter of the Eucharist and the believe in transubstantiation is so important for the Roman Catholic believe. While the writers of the manifest give the impression they want to dispose of some dogmatic laws which were not in the church of the first centuries of this time, the conservatives hold fast to the historic popes like Pope Innocent III and Paul VI .
According to Staf de Wilde the Catholic church is standing in front of a firm dogmatism and for a pyramidal, say dictatorial structure in which the basis church has to squeak little or nothing. Him remains it surprising that critical religious people within this institute wishes to remain active. According to him an organized belief community does not really has to be church with the qualities of the church of Rome. And as you take away these qualities, then you hold something else over: something resembling the original Christianity perhaps, at that time there did not exist yet an infallible pope and yet no dogmas.
Ignace D’Hert, Dominican and instructor theology at the Higher Institute for Religious Science in Antwerp; Marc Van Tent oblate and former instructor theology at the Centre for Ecclesiastic Studies in Louvain and the Higher Institute for Religious Science in Ganshoren; Eddy Van Waelderen, priest of the diocese Antwerp and many years active as theologian on the Theological and Pastoral Centre in Antwerp, were some of the first theologians that signed the manifesto “Believers take the word” . When these Catholic theologians may not bring in a contribution the mental world of the Catholicism in Flanders, may wonder one self who may well do. Were orthodoxy is for them remaining to seek in fidelity to new sense coming from the Jesus-happening lighting up in the variable circumstances of life. According to me that holds not in that they reject therefore that Catholic Belief.
Today we hear the Flemish priests and serious Christian believers of the Catholic Religion call for some reform. They let Belgium hear their protest about what happened in the Roman Catholic Church in Belgium and how it is degrading or falling to pieces. In case you would call such whistle blowers who protest against a situation “Protestants’, than perhaps you could consider them belonging to the “Protestants’, but because they have no similar teachings as those of the ‘protestants’ of the ‘Protestant Church’ they can never belong to the Protestant Church as such. They may engage in prolonged efforts to make their early efforts intelligible to Rome but they are not aiming to spawn separate movements in their own names. On the other hand we do seem some thoughts to get the people liberated from the mediation of sacramental and clerical system and to give them a freer experience of grace.
An other protestant twinge is their act to want to go more to the Biblical teachings instead preferring to keep to human doctrinal laws. We can notice that they manifesters turned to the Bible for guidance about church governance.
They are still real integer Catholics who want to bring a signal to save the Roman Catholic Church. As in both the Protestant and Catholic Church those people serving those churches should in first instance bringing over Gods Word. They should proclaim the Good News. It should be about the Sacrificial Offer by Jesus. Both have to talk about atonement and reconciliation.
The believers who took the word rang the alarm-bell but did not commit treason to their Roman Catholic Faith. These signatories of the manifesto agree that it is not simple to face those differences which came to light now. The differences that came onto the surface may have lingered already for many years, though those in charge of the Belgian Catholic Church did not want to face them. It will not be easy to go about with the differences on a sober and evangelic manner. Plurality becomes quick disunion. That makes it so difficult in our chaotic world to hold in front the vision of someone else, and to experience it full of joy.
“Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptised into {Or in; also in verse 15} the name of Paul?” (1 Corinthians 1:13 NIV) asked Paul already at the torn municipality of Corinth.
All ought to yield the courage with each other over these fundamentally different views, to come in dialogue. With an open mind and without fear for mutual questioning.
+
* God can not die, but Jesus, being a man could die but only once. A “re-sacrifice” of Jesus Christ for our sins, or a “re-offering / re-presentation” of His sacrifice is not necessary. Scripture says, that Jesus died “once for all” and does not need to be sacrificed again (Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18). Hebrews 7:27 declares, “Unlike the other high priests, He (Jesus) does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when He offered Himself.” The bread and the wine are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus, but are not a representation of God nor His body or his blood (Because God is a ghost and has no body or blood as human beings.) The bread Jesus was breaking represented what he was going to do. The same for the wine he gave them – his blood hadn’t yet been shed, but the wine represented the blood that would be shed. These words were not meant to be taken in a literal sense then, nor are they now.
°°
To be continued: Manifests for believers #4 Eucharist + Manifests for believers #5 Christian Union
Preceding article: Manifests for believers #2 Changing celibacy requirement
+
++
Please do find to read:
- A Call for National Dialogue on the Future of Priestly Ministry
- Celibacy and the Priesthood
- Bishop of Derry calls for end to celibacy in Catholic church
- Tracing the Glorious Origins of Priestly Celibacy
- Is Jesus Christ actually present in the bread and wine of the Eucharist/communion?
The Lord’s supper is done both to help Christians remember what Jesus has done, and also to proclaim what Jesus has done (‘For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes’: 1 Cor. 11:26). - What is Holy Communion? Why is it necessary to a Christian’s life?Children ate the OT passover so why not NT bread and wine?Are the bread and wine just symbols, or are they really Jesus flesh and blood?Why did Jesus say he wouldn’t drink wine again until the kingdom when he ate and drank other things? (Mark 14:25)Why wasn’t the lying prophet killed? (1 Kings 13)
- What is transubstantiation?
In Dutch:
- Beminde gelovigen
- Gelovigen nemen het woord: Manifest van Vlaamse gelovigen Najaar 2011
- Een Manifest voor Gelovigen
- Manifest tot protestantse kerk
- Manifestanten Protestant of Katholiek
- Manifest: [On-]Gelovigen nemen het woord
- Terecht scherpe kritiek op “Manifest Gelovigen nemen het woord”
- Alfabetische lijst van 8.228 ketters in Vlaanderen
- Mgr. Johan Bonny, bisschop van Antwerpen: ‘Ik versta verzuchtingen van het manifest Gelovigen nemen het woord ‘
- Theoloog Stijn Van den Bossche:’Woord- en communiediensten zijn niet de eerste oplossing’
- Manifest: Wij kiezen voor eenheid
- Gelovigen ‘nemen’ het woord niet… Gelovigen ‘AANVAARDEN’ het Woord
- Manifest voor het Katholieke Geloof: http://www.petities24.com/gelovigen_aanvaarden_het_woord
- Schisma in de Vlaamse Kerkhttp://kavlaanderen.blogspot.com/2011/11/schisma-in-de-vlaamse-kerk.html
- Werkdruk te hoog voor priesters
+++
Related articles
-
The Pope called for “profound renewal” in the Roman Catholic Church on Monday in an appeal sent to the first conference ever held by the Vatican on the subject of paedophile priests and child abuse.
+
A Vatican statement said that Benedict “supports and encourages every effort to respond with evangelical charity to the challenge of providing children and vulnerable adults with an ecclesiastical environment conducive to their human and spiritual growth.”
+“You can have all the symposiums you want, but why don’t they open a constructive debate? The Church is too closed in on itself,” Roberto Mirabile, the head of La Caramella Buona, an Italian victims’ group, told AFP.
Sue Cox, from Survivors’ Voice, a coalition of support groups from the US, Britain, Ireland and Germany, said: “You don’t need a jolly in Rome to learn what the right thing to do is. This is just a PR stunt. It’s just theatre really.”
- The Catholic Church (theobamacrat.com)
Recently, the catholic leadership came out in opposition to the mandate in our new healthcare law that all health insurance providers offer coverage for prescribed birth control, even for employees in some catholic institutions. But, let’s be clear about what the real issue is here. It is not about government controls, and it is not about infringement of our religious beliefs. It is about a church that has lost touch with reality. The leadership of the catholic church either is ignoring or is unaware of the disconnect between catholic teaching and catholic reality.
- Unholy War (annem040359.wordpress.com)
In the last couple of weeks, the President Barack Hussein Obama White House, like hitting a bald face hornets nest during the daytime when it ought to know better, “declared war” on not only the Roman Catholic bishops in the United States, but also the Roman Catholic Church in the United States of America. - Catholic Church ready to declare war on Obama (promoteliberty.wordpress.com)
From the campaign trail last month, GOP contender Newt Gingrich said US President Barack Obama had declared a “war on the Catholic Church.” Some clergy have heard that call and are warning the president: look out, we’re ready to rumble. - Gulf Exists Between Catholic Bishops And Laity On Contraception (lezgetreal.com)
For those who do not grasp the significance of the gulf between the Catholic Bishops and the Catholic laity, what eventually happens is that the laity will drift away from the Bishops. The recent decision by the Obama Administration to require Catholic owned businesses- schools, hospitals and so forth- to carry healthcare choices that cover contraception has the bishops up in arms, but not the laity. - Catholic Church ready to declare war on Obama (rt.com)
“It’s not about contraception. It’s about the right of conscience,” Archbishop Timothy Dolan tells reporters. “The government doesn’t have the right to butt into the internal governance and teachings of the church,” he insists.“Never before has the federal government forced individuals and organizations to go out into the marketplace and buy a product that violates their conscience,” adds Dolan. “This shouldn’t happen in a land where free exercise of religion ranks first in the Bill of Rights.”
- US Catholic Bishops Don’t Know Their Congregants (lezgetreal.com)
The statement issued by the Bishops called contraception against “the mandate of Jesus Christ.” They pulled that one out of their fancy hats. Christ said very little about sexuality and nothing whatsoever about preventing pregnancy. Only the leaders of the church have ever addressed the issues, and did so from some very warped personal positions. They were also the ones who said that clergy should be celibate. They just assumed that since no one bothered to mention any wives that the Apostles might have had, that there weren’t any. - Grimm And Murphy Spar Over Obama Contraception Plan (timesunion.com)
Mr. Murphy also had less-than-kind words for Mr. Grimm’s approach to the issue.“Once again, when faced with controversy, my opponent is playing the Washington game of seeking publicity and creating division instead of seeking a workable solution,” he said.
- Nancy Pelosi: ‘I am going to stick with fellow Catholics’ in Pres. Obama’s war on Catholics. Wherein Fr. Z rants. (wdtprs.com)
Even as the United States’ Catholic bishops have launched an all-out campaign against the Obama administration’s birth control mandate and urged their flocks to resistance, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has invoked the support of “fellow Catholics” to justify her position in favor of the mandate.
Manifests for believers #2 Changing celibacy requirement
In the previous article Manifests for believers #1 Sex abuse setting fire to the powder we saw that the role of the priest in the child and adult abuse has included cover-ups, neglect, and arrogance. In documents of the church, letters between victims and church, and in the media we could find enough proof the Church has contributed to the spirit of permissiveness. First there were not many attempts to bring everything in good order and to show guilt and reconciliation attempts have resulted in compromises that allowed for the deviancy to continue.
For decades, the problem of paedophilia has been badly managed within the church and now that everything comes out of the cesspool this brought the church in discredit and got even more people leaving their church and their faith. Some wonder if you can you blame Catholics for leaving the faith when these types of attitudes run rampant in the church? The problem becomes bigger when they do take it that “the Church” is bad and that they should not go to any church or return to the Catholic Church because they get the impression that nothing is being done to prevent abuse from happening. It certainly doesn’t seem that the Catholic church has a screening process that will eliminate paedophiles and child molesters.
Steven van der Hoeven talks about his book in which he describes how the sexual abuse he suffered as a child changed his life - Photo Vera de Kok
The atheist Child & Family Therapist Katie from British Columbia, Canada, works professionally with children who have experienced sexual abuse and she is by no means claiming that most sexual abuse happens within the confines of religion, because it doesn’t. “However, religion has the tendency to override rationality and good judgment.” according to her. * “Parents need to acknowledge that religion does not make you any more moral than others and that bad people will do bad things… so teach your children to recognize those people.” And that is what we do agree with; everywhere you can find extreme cases and people who do the wrong things. It has nothing to do with God, except that you would call Him guilty of giving men free spirit and allowed him to do whatever he wanted.
Also the problem of priests not being able to marry made that many who wanted to do some churchwork did not come forward to offer their life for the Church.
°°°
The very planet revolves around actions, thoughts, and words that are fueled by ethics. By the years people and situations change.
With all the tribulations and sex scandals many have lost their faith. Many do claim God for what happens in the world, but then they forget that at the beginning of the world-existence God had given men liberty to go his own way. The first humans had doubted the good meaning of the Creator. They challenged Him and wanted to know the Good and the Evil. They wanted to know as much as God and wanted to direct their own thoughts and life. God did not want to play a dictator to whom everybody had to listen other-while he would vanish. But now that humankind wanted to go its own way it had to bear the consequences of its deeds itself and can not blame God because other humans do something wrong.
If a person lives a holy life and believes in God, he would be better off weather there was a god or not, because his life would be much happier and honourable. The same goes for ethics. If someone lives an ethical life, he or she is destined to be much happier than people who do not follow ethics.
But those ethics have to be fed.
In all religions there exists a connection between religious doctrine and social ethics. In Christianity one of the goals is the establishment of a holy, organized society, ideally based on eternal principles of righteousness and fair dealing, cleanliness and sobriety, honesty and helpfulness. Ethics have an impact on an individual, and they should come out of the Word of God for those who want to spread the Word of God. In such an instance they should work on their character and should try to live according to the Laws of God. The laws governing human conduct in the Bible define both social and economic justice, and the pursuit of a good life in society. Born out of the Judaic system with Hebrew code, the Christianic code of social ethics sets also forth spiritual guidelines regarding lawful and unlawful actions, and rewards for the virtuous and threats of punishment for the wicked.
A community should have people who take care to look at ways of living and to talk about them. There should be people in the world who would not mind helping others to find a good way of living, and to protect those who are not able to come up for them selves. In the previous centuries churches have taken most of that role on to them. But now the church has come in discredit.
Therefore, though the storm is not yet at its height, it can well be that the Roman Catholic Church has shot his bolt.
The Roman Catholic Church has always proclaimed that it is the only Church which offers “special” access to salvation, by way of truly God’s servants. But those bulletproof servants have received a real good roasting the last few months.Today several Belgian believers, priests and even bishops do find that since the requirement for celibacy is not a doctrinal issue or dogma, but more of a disciplinary rule, there is no reason why this requirement cannot be amended to reflect the changing times. The majority of parishioners, including many members in the hierarchy of the Church, believe that changing the celibacy requirement may prevent abuse from happening in the first place (National Catholic Reporter, 1998). Because of the decline in those entering the priesthood, there are fewer priests to serve their communities.
The discipline by which some, or all members of the clergy in certain religions, are required to be unmarried is not any more for this time. Considering deliberate sexual thoughts, feelings, and behaviour outside of marriage to be sinful, clerical celibacy also requires abstention from these, and as history has shown that does not seem to work on a lot of ‘spiritual men’. That the Roman Catholic Church demands sacred ministers celibacy because than they would be more able to adhere more easily to Christ with an undivided heart and dedicate themselves more freely to the service of God and humanity, is a superseded idea.
It is long our of date that people would not be able to do their job properly when they are married. As for a worldly job, the spiritual job can even make more use of the inside information a married person can get from the family members and his situation in a common form of living together.
In some Christian churches, such as the Latin Rite Catholic Church and some Eastern Catholic Churches, priests and bishops must as a rule remain unmarried, while in others, such as the Eastern Orthodox Church, the churches of Oriental Orthodoxy and some of the Eastern Catholic Churches, married men may be ordained as deacons or priests, but may not remarry if their wife dies. Since celibacy is seen as a consequence of the obligation of continence, it implies abstinence from sexual relationships. The Catholic Code of Canon Law prescribes: “Clerics are to behave with due prudence towards persons whose company can endanger their obligation to observe continence or give rise to scandal among the faithful.”
People should know that the rule of clerical celibacy is a law of the Church (the human institution) itself, not a doctrine and can not be found as a Biblical obligation. According to the Roman Catholic Church, a very few times exceptions can be made, and it can, in principle, be changed at any time by the Pope. Nonetheless, both the present Pope, Benedict XVI, and his predecessor, under pressure to change it, spoke clearly of their understanding that the traditional practice is unlikely to change.
Clerical celibacy and monastic vows, made in Roman Catholic, Anglican, and Eastern Orthodox Churches, deprived the church of the services of many men who might have become shining stars. On the other hand, it has been calculated by Justus Möser in 1750, that within two centuries after the Reformationfrom ten to fifteen millions of human beings in all lands owe their existence to the abolition of clerical celibacy. {Ranke states this fact.} More important than this numerical increase is the fact that an unusual proportion of eminent scholars and useful men in church and state were descended from clerical families. Among distinguished sons of clergymen may be named Linné, the botanist; Berzelius, the chemist; Pufendorf, the lawyer; Schelling, the philosopher; Buxtorff, the Orientalist; Euler, the mathematician; Agassiz, the scientist; Edward and Ottfried Müller, the classical philologists; John von Müller, Spittler, Heeren, Mommsen, Bancroft, among historians; Henry Clay, Senator Evarts, and two Presidents of the United States, Arthur and Cleveland, among statesmen; Charles Wesley, Gellert, Wieland, Lessing, the brothers Schlegel, Jean Paul, Emanuel Geibel, Emerson (also the female writers Meta Heusser, Elizabeth Prentiss, Mrs. Stowe), among poets; John Wesley, Monod, Krummacher, Spurgeon, H. W. Beecher, R. S. Storrs, among preachers; Jonathan Edwards, Schleiermacher, Hengstenberg, Nitzsch, Julius Müller, Dorner, Dean Stanley, among divines; Swedenborg, the seer; with a large number of prominent and useful clergymen, lawyers, and physicians, in all Protestant countries.*Many dioceses engage in the morally questionable practice of importing priests from the developing world despite even more severe priest shortages in those countries.
In recent years Pope Benedict XVI has made allowances for married Anglican ministers to transfer to the Catholic church after a number made the move in protest at controversial Anglican issues including the ordination of women priests, and acceptance of ministers in same-sex relationships. In 1980 married Anglican/Episcopal pastors were ordained as catholic priests in the U.S.; also in Canada and England in 1994, while simultaneously dismissing Catholic priests who marry and failing to recognize the vocations of Catholic married men. Some bishops are changing priests’ retirement age from 70 to 75. Many are embracing several of these strategies simultaneously yet none will arrest the steep declines looming ahead.
The stubborn Belgian knows the ropes and the celibate is something which is already sticking in his throat to long. They are at their wits’end what to do with it and with the scandals the church had to encounter. The clergy men became upset by the conservative and silent attitude of the Church leaders in Rome. According to many it is a myth that the vocation shortage is due to materialism and lack of faith. Research (1985 Lilly endowment) showed that “there is no evidence to support loss of faith for less vocations…youth volunteer and campus ministry is rising.”
The Bishop of Bruges, Jozef De Kesel, has questioned celibacy for priests and called for an open discussion on the position of women in the Church. The bishop of Hasselt, Patrick Hoogmartens and Bishop Johan Bonny of Antwerp have also said that married men should not automatically be excluded from the priesthood. (Reuters,9/22/10)
In several countries there is a “Call To Action and FutureChurch” from Catholic lay people as well as priests and nuns, who respect the Catholic tradition and are working respectfully to effect change in the Church because they love it and want to make it better. Those ‘FutureChurch‘ members consider themselves parish-based because the resolutions which founded that church came from individual parishes and because so many of their members consider the parish their primary place of worship.
Jesus did not ordain anyone. Ordination was a practice that started to occur decades later in church history. Jesus had both male and female disciples and those who helped to spread the faith were men and women, who often had regular jobs and children. It were people who gathered around Jesus and went back to their own places to tell about this special man. Others became so much interested in the teachings of this master teacher from Nazareth that they loved to spread his teachings. Men and women continued to teach what they had learned from either Jesus or from his disciples. It were common people who continued the tradition of spreading the Word of God by coming together in each others houses or in synagogues. (So at first there where not even special build places to meet and to have the worship services.) Later when they were not welcome any more in the synagogues and their private houses became to small they came together in public places or they build meeting houses or ecclesiae to congregate , gather or meet.The Flemish priests who were not afraid to let the Roman Catholic world hear their voice believe as many other priests in the world, that priests should be allowed to marry and that women have an equal right to have their call to ordination tested along with male candidates. Some of them believe also that celibacy is a gift of the Spirit, as is the call to marriage and the single life. Gifts cannot be mandated, so it is from a deep respect for the gift of celibacy that they request that it be made optional and not forced upon those who do not feel called in this way.
At the end of 2011 more Belgian priests urged Catholics and compatriots to start talking about what the priest shortage means to them and their parishes. Some ideas were written down in ‘A Manifest for Believers‘ so that the subject would become more known and that the public debate could bes started. By the manifest they want to encourage the formation of dialogue groups in parishes and small faith communities.
According to a survey taken between December, 2010 and January, 2011, seven out of ten Flemish priests are against celibacy for priests, are for the access of women to the priesthood, (La Croix, 2/19/2011)
The Belgian Manifesto urges the bishops to find solutions to the priest shortage and open discussion about ending mandatory celibacy as a requirement for the diocesan priesthood.
It may be a surprise that still so many people want to go for that institute which has received so much damage from people who were in charge of it. Strange also that they keep clinging at this institute which has betrayed so many people. The manifesto can be an expression of a liberation movement. In civic culture we have seen the emancipation movement, and now perhaps time has come that we get such an emancipation movement in church as well.
But can this corroded pre-eminently paternalistic institute take off its ‘old garments ‘ and transform itself in a contemporary, modern belief community, characterized by a basic democracy.
In this 21st century the Roman Catholic Church still seems to be a nearly dictatorial institution which by requiring at least some of its clerics and its religious not to marry, the Catholic Church falls under Paul’s condemnation in 1 Timothy 4:3 against apostates who “forbid marriage.”
The Catholic Bible writes: “the spirit expressly states that in the \@acharit-hayamim\@ some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. such teachings come from the hypocrisy of liars whose own consciences have been burned, as if with a red-hot branding iron. they forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods which god created to be eaten with thanksgiving by those who have come to trust and to know the truth. for everything created by god is good, and nothing received with thanksgiving needs to be rejected, because the word of god and prayer make it holy.” (1 Timothy 4:1-5 CJB)
or in a Protestant translation:
“The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.” (1 Timothy 4:1-5 NIV)
God has created man and woman, told them to live with each other, to marry and have children. So why is it forbidden to those men and women to choose somebody of the other sex, marry, live with each other and have children from each other?
In the old times most Catholics married, but today most live together without having had a marriage, tough all Catholics are taught to venerate marriage as a holy institution—a sacrament, an action of God upon their souls; one of the holiest things we encounter in this life. A lot of Belgian Catholics also quite often switch partner. But the servants of God should know the Laws of God and should be the first ones to keep to them. According to the Laws of God the man or the woman who does not keep to the Laws of God and has not an ethic acceptable good honest life, should not be allowed to do some church work. In the New Testament are several writings were we can find women and man teaching the Good News of the coming Kingdom of God, and also writings from the apostles how they have to comply to the Law and how they have to comply with certain expectations. So, in the early church also women had their tasks and helped the church grow.
Even the old Father Edward Daly, who was the Bishop of Derry for 20 years during the Troubles, has become the first senior Irish Catholic cleric to call for an end to celibacy in the church. His intervention in the debate over whether priests should be allowed to marry is highly significant because he is still one of the most respected figures in the Irish Catholic church at a time when faith in the institution has been shattered by the paedophile scandals involving clergy. Challenging centuries of Catholic theocracy, Daly has said that allowing the clergy to marry would solve some of the church’s problems. “There will always be a place in the church for a celibate priesthood, but there should also be a place for a married priesthood in the church,” Daly writes in his book A Troubled See, Memoirs of a Derry Bishop, published in September 2011.
While Daly accepts he might be out of step with current Vatican thinking he points out that he is “not engaged in a popularity contest”. He says that during his time as a bishop he found it “heartbreaking” that so many priests or prospective priests were forced to resign or were unable to get ordained because of the celibacy issue.
Many young men who once considered joining the priesthood turned away because of the rule, the 74-year-old cleric argues. From most people who were interested to become a priest, but did not follow their vocation, the rule of celibacy was the main reason not to go for it. Because of that we do have to face the catastrophic shortage of priests and see a serious neglect of the Eucharist, and a widespread breakdown of pastoral care.
Merging parishes into “pastoral units” did offer less services to the believers who became less interested in worshipping in a far away church, ministered to by badly overworked priests who did seem to have lost the zeal and interest as well.
And this is something we can hear in many countries.
Though parishioners not receiving enough opportunities to go to mass or take part of the sacraments is against other writings in the Catholic Faith.
“Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people,’ have a right and an obligation by reason of their Baptism.” (Sacrosanctum Concilium)
“The laity have the right, as do all Christians, to receive in abundance from their sacred pastors the spiritual goods of the Church, especially the assistance of the Word of God and the sacraments.” (Lumen Gentium, 37).
“Christ’s faithful are at liberty to make known their needs, especially their spiritual needs, and their wishes to the Pastors of the Church.”(Canon Law 212.2 )
“They have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church.” (Canon Law 212.3 )
Today that Church is not willing to provide the means to take care of their believers. In many villages there are no regular church services any more. At the village were our office is there is only once a month a service with Eucharist. It is for such bad situations the priest ring the Alarm and want that the Roman Catholic Church does everything to let the parishes to stay open and the Eucharist to remain the centre of Catholic worship.
Internationally there is already a ” Save our Parish Community project” that has helped parishioners hold their bishops accountable by appealing mistaken decisions to close their vital, solvent parishes because of the priest shortage.
The Flemish priests and several important political and civilian figures plead in favour of having as well married men as women being permitted as priest in the Church office. They do hope the permission shall be given very soon, because there is an acute shortage of priests and those who want to do some religious work are now so much-needed.
+
*of Intro: Child Sexual Abuse within the Dutch Catholic Church
* Reflections on Clerical Family Life
To be continued: Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant
Preceding article: Manifests for believers #1 Sex abuse setting fire to the powder
++
Read also:
- A Call for National Dialogue on the Future of Priestly Ministry
- Celibacy and the Priesthood
- Bishop of Derry calls for end to celibacy in Catholic church
- Tracing the Glorious Origins of Priestly Celibacy
In Dutch:
- Beminde gelovigen
- Gelovigen nemen het woord: Manifest van Vlaamse gelovigen Najaar 2011
- Een Manifest voor Gelovigen
- Manifest tot protestantse kerk
+++
Related articles
- Child Sexual Abuse within the Dutch Catholic Church (patheos.com)
- Sex, Celibacy, and Priesthood: A Bishop’s Provocative Inquisition (prweb.com)
- Bill Donahue: PHILLY JUDGE SHOULD STEP DOWN (gloucestercitynews.net)
- Seducing Spirits – Can they live in the church? Pt. 2 (endtimeebookreviews.wordpress.com)
- Seducing Spirits – Can they live in the church? Pt. 2 (pamsheppard.wordpress.com)
- Should Catholics return to an abusive home? (haphazardgirl.wordpress.com)
- Seducing Spirits – Can they live in the church? Pt. 2 (endtimeebooklibrary.com)
- Seducing Spirits – Can they live in the church? Pt. 2 (settingcaptivesfree.me)
- Priest gives up his vocation, not his religion, for love(mumbailaity.wordpress.com)
Like many Roman Catholic men who feel called to the priesthood, the Rev. Jim Hearne wrestled with whether ordination was right for him.The youngest of seven in an Irish Catholic family, he saw the joy of family life firsthand and never could quite extinguish the desire to one day have children of his own.But spurred to help stem the priest shortage and strengthen the integrity of the cloth, Hearne donned a priest’s collar in 2005 at age 25.Now he wonders if his six years in the pulpit as “Father Jim” might have been preparation to become Jim, the father.
+“They can teach you all they want” about celibacy, he said. “You can read all the books about it that have been printed _ volumes and volumes. Until you live it and experience it, it’s a far different thing.”Returning to the rectory after a busy day of work or a joyful day with family became increasingly difficult.“There was something nice about entering into the quiet rectory. But there was also something kind of sombering,” he said. “No one was there waiting for me. It was silent.” - The 6th Floor Blog: Reintroducing Joe Eszterhas (6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com)
The church’s position on homosexuality is awful and hypocritical, antimoral, especially when you consider that such a huge percentage of priests are gay. It’s just nuts, as is the church’s position on celibacy. There are reasons why the Catholic church is dying. - LA Bishop With Secret Family Resigns (newser.com)
A Los Angeles bishop has resigned after he revealed to his superiors that he has a secret family. Mexican-born Auxiliary Bishop Gabino Zavala, 60, is the father of two teenage children who live with their mother in another state, reports the BBC.
+
“It’s self-evident—celibacy does not work,” said Father Richard McBrien, a professor of theology at the University of Notre Dame. - Being a Catholic Priest – and Married (frstephensmuts.wordpress.com)
My experience as a married Catholic priest for 28 years brings to mind several thoughts, both practical and spiritual. First, the church must support new priests’ families financially. During my first years as a married Catholic priest, there were times when we could not pay the heating bill. When I was ordained, it was made quite clear to me that I should not look to the church as my main source of income but rather to a full-time job outside of the church. My parish duties have thus always been secondary.
+
I am a firm supporter of the celibacy of the Catholic clergy. Its basis is not found in councils or popes but rather in the person of Jesus Christ. The heart of the Catholic priesthood is sacrifice, and celibacy, in imitation of Christ, frees the priest to give himself totally to the church and its people.
+
Reform of the priesthood is sorely needed today. The answer is not married priests. The answer is priests who understand the sacrifice that is at the center of their lives—whether they are married or not… - Vatican warns on sex abuse (smh.com.au)
The Vatican has asked national bishops’ conferences from around the world to submit by May their guidelines on how to deal with abusive priests and co-operate with local law enforcement.”In some cultures, it’s hard for victims to come forward. We are debating how to change a culture that favours silence over denunciation,” he said. - Thousands abused by Dutch priests, says report (windsorstar.com)
About 20,000 children have been sexually abused by 800 Roman Catholic priests or lay workers in Holland since 1945, an independent inquiry has estimated. - Thousands abused by Dutch priests, says report (vancouversun.com)
- Tens of thousands of children abused in Dutch Catholic institutions, report says (mumbailaity.wordpress.com)
Children in institutional care, regardless of religious affiliation, in the Netherlands were at substantial risk of being abused during the period, the molestation rate – 20% – being twice that of elsewhere. The investigation led by Wim Deetman concluded that several tens of thousands of children had suffered sexual molestation.
+
A powerful “We Are the Church” movement in Austria has gained broad support, challenging the Vatican and raising schismatic potential. Earlier this month in Belgium, a new movement was founded by dissident priests, dubbed “Believers Speak Out”, calling for the ordination of married men and women, the lifting of curbs on divorcees, and other reforms.“The Belgian church is a disaster,” said Father John Dekimpe when launching the new organisation. “If we don’t do something, the exodus of those leaving the church will just never stop.” While officially the church refuses to admit that priestly celibacy is in any way connected with priestly abuse, Deetman on Friday made the link. “We do not consider it impossible that a number of cases would not have happened if celibacy was voluntary,” he said. His report said that compulsory celibacy in the priesthood made priests more likely to engage in “transgressive conduct”.
Manifests for believers #1 Sex abuse setting fire to the powder
In the 50s and 60s of the previous century many acolytes and young boys became confronted with not such a nice site of human nature and his urge to have physical contact. Growing older and not having been able to cope with the old trauma some got up from their quit seat and started to tell tales out of school.
Telling their secret the Roman Catholic Church became once more confronted with the problem of celibacy and sexuality.
These people left disillusioned those churches in which they had faith at first, but those whom they trusted misused their power. They went out from the closed community where their parents at that time had no ears for their unbelievable stories. Though they had already to fight their shame to talk about it with somebody else they did not find an ear at that time to be sympathetic. Many of them a lack of self esteem and also got mental disorders, or after many years having it put away it came up when they got older and started to bother them more. Some dramatic and well-publicized cases involving allegations of childhood sexual abuse have raised very controversial issues, such as the right of children’s testimony and recovered memories of sexual abuse.
As in many other countries it looked as if the church used remote villages to dump their child-molesting priests. Several youngsters took at that time or later in life their own life. In several countries the abusers were specifically sent to certain isolated places “to get them off the grid, where they could do the least amount of damage” to the church’s public image, but in Belgium they still received high places and even got to do important work with youngsters.
At the time of the many boarding schools boys found themselves in the “internaat” its boys dormitory an easy prey, but several were also raped during their private catechism class.
The history of child molestation in the Catholic Church goes back centuries. The first official decree on the subject was written at the Council of Elvira, held around A.D. 305 near Granada, Spain. The precise history is complicated, but the council is traditionally believed to have set down 81 rules for behaviour, the 71st of which is: “Those who sexually abuse boys may not commune even when death approaches.” It was the harshest one-strike policy: If you’re caught abusing a child, you are not only laicized, but permanently excommunicated—damned for all time.*
The problem with sex in the church can be seen by many pops in history who got many wives or many mistresses, until the church found it high time to put some order in the pigsty.
In the history of clerical celibacy conciliar legislation marks the second period during which the law took definite shape both in the East and in the West. The earliest enactment on the subject is that of the Spanish Council of Elvira (between 295 and 302) in canon xxxiii. It imposes celibacy upon the three higher orders of the clergy, bishops, priests, and deacons. If they continue to live with their wives and beget children after their ordination they are to be deposed. This would seem to have been the beginning of the divergence in this matter between East and West.
“As a rule”, remarks Bishop Wordsworth from his anti-celibate standpoint, “the great writers of the fourth and fifth century pressed celibacy as the more excellent way with an unfair and misleading emphasis which led to the gravest and moral mischief and loss of power in the Church.” (The Ministry of Grace, 1902, p. 223).
The Council of Agde in Gaul, in 506, forbade subdeacons to marry, and such synods as those of Orléans in 538 and Tours in 567 prohibited even those already married from continuing to live with their wives.
The synods of the sixth and seventh centuries, while fully recognizing the position of these former wives and according them even the formal designation of female bishops, priestess, deaconess, and subdeaconess (episcopissa, presbytera, diaconissa, subdiaconissa), laid down some very strict rules to guide their relations with their former husbands. The bishopess, as a rule, did not live in the same house with the bishop (see the Council of Tours in 567, can. xiv). For the lower grades actual separation does not seem to have been required, although the Council of Orléans in 541, can. xvii, ordained: “ut sacerdotes sive diacom cum conjugibus suis non habeant commune lectum et cellulam”; while curious regulations were enforced requiring the presence of subordinate clergy in the sleeping apartment of the bishop, archpriest, etc., to prevent all suspicion of scandal (see, e.g., the Council of Tours, in 567), canons xiii and xx).
St. Dunstan, Archbishop of Canterbury from 960 to 988, a period during which the papacy was subjected to oppression and disorder of the worst kind, more than any other character in early English history can be identified with the cause of a celibate clergy . But the seventeenth century, seemingly was not inconsistent with at least ordinary fidelity to their vows of continence.
Before the middle ages it was allowable for Catholic priests to have multiple wives and mistresses (concubines). During the Middle Ages clergy were known to solicit sexual favours from their female penitents and some priests kept concubines. It was also known that Pope Alexander VI had several illegitimate children and that the nuns of Godstow were the ones who spread syphilis to the husbands of the families who lived around their convent (Durant, 1980; Mee, 1972). This type of abuse has continued down through the centuries.
But with concerns for protecting Church property from inheritance Pope Pelagius I made new priests agree offspring could not inherit Church property. Pope Gregory then declared all sons of priests illegitimate (only sons since lowly daughters could not inherit anyway in society).
>> Is this a joke or serious? > “Webster’s dictionary defines catamite as “the youthful lover of an older man derived from the Latin name Catamus.” Catamus was the first Catholic priest, who didn’t even wait until the rock of Lord Jesus‘ tomb was rolled back to get a young boy spread eagle on a altar (a practice that resulted in the early church adopting the name “altar boy.”) The first Pope was so impressed with Catamus’ ability to bugger young altar boys while never losing his place in scripture during service, that he coined the name for the new church “Catholic,” using Catamus’ name and the activity for which Catamus had become notorious. The traditions establish by Catamus have become sacred rites of passage for all Catholic priests, often taking 40-50 years to perfect and master. What once was ostensibly a Christian Church has become little more than a excuse for grown men to wear dresses and bugger young boys – with the so-called “church” offering the vocational perk to its priests of often relocating pedophiles to new parishes so that they may “sample some new flavors.” “(The Landover Baptist Catamite Hotline) <
The other major condemnation of clerical sex abuse was The Book of Gomorrah, completed by radical church reformer Father Peter Damian (a Benedictine monk, as it happens, who became a cardinal) in 1051. He appealed directly to the pope about the abuse of children, as well as consensual sex among clergy—in howling language: “O unheard of crime! O outrage to be mourned with a whole fountain of tears!… What fruitfulness can still be found in the flocks when the shepherd is so deeply sunk in the belly of the devil!”*
In the 15th century there are still 50% of priests married, but at the 1545-63-Council of Trent it was stated that celibacy and virginity are superior to marriage.
The Reformation has changed the moral ideal, and elevated domestic and social life. Philipp Schwartzerdt Melanchthon, collaborator with Martin Luther, the first systematic theologian of the Protestant Reformation, intellectual leader of the Lutheran Reformation, and an influential designer of educational systems, was the first among the Reformers who entered the state of matrimony; but being a layman, he violated no priestly or monastic vow. He married, at the urgent request of his friends, Katharina Krapp, the daughter of the burgomaster of Wittenberg, in November, 1520, and lived with his plain, pious, faithful, and benevolent wife, till her death in 1557. He was seen at times rocking the cradle while reading a book. {C. Schmidt, Philipp Melanchthon, pp. 47 sqq., 617, 710 sqq.}Jean Calvin or John Calvin, the influential French theologian and pastor, was likewise free from the obligation of vows, but the severest and most abstemious among the Reformers. He had the air of being so hostile to celibacy but his first engagement did not turn into a marriage. He knew a good reason why it would not be bad to marry: “If I take a wife it will be because, being better freed from numerous worries, I can devote myself to the Lord.”
He married Idelette de Bure, a widow who had two children from her first marriage of an Anabaptist minister John Storder from Liège. whom he had converted to the Paedobaptist faith or Anabaptism. Calvin’s fellow labourer Martin Bucer had known Idelette and recommended her to Calvin in confidence that she would be the woman who was “chaste, obliging, not fastidious, economical, patient, and careful for (his) health”. Idelette busied herself attending to Calvin in his many illnesses, faithfully visiting the sick and afflicted, and making her home a refuge for those who fled for their lives and their faith. Though she survived the plague when it ravaged Geneva, Idelette died after a lengthy illness in 1549. Calvin had lived with her for nearly nine years, had three children who died in infancy, and remained a widower after her death.
In the 1930s, a priest-psychiatrist—and also a Benedictine—named Reverend Thomas Verner Moore researched the higher-than-usual rates of insanity and alcoholism among Catholic clergy. He suggested the church build an asylum for priests. The U.S. Catholic Bishops turned down his request in 1936. Father Moore became a Carthusian hermit.*
In 1947, Father Gerald Fitzgerald founded the Servants of the Paraclete in Jemez, New Mexico—the same institution Father Poole was to visit almost 50 years later.*
In a 1957 letter to the Bishop of Manchester, Father Fitzgerald wrote that predatory priests (who he euphemistically refers to as “schizophrenic”) cannot be effectively treated and should not be allowed to continue in the ministry:
Their repentance and amendment is superficial and, if not formally at least subconsciously, is motivated by a desire to be again in a position where they can continue their wonted activity. A new diocese means only green pastures… We are amazed to find how often a man who would be behind bars if he were not a priest is entrusted with the cura animarum [the cure, or care, of souls].*
By the early 1960s, Father Fitzgerald had seen enough chronic paedophiles that he did not want to treat them and have them re-released into the ministry, but, as he proposed in a letter to Archbishop Davis, to build an “island retreat… but even an island is too good for these vipers.”*
Cardinal Ratzinger in 2001 issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church’s interests ahead of child safety. The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated. Crimen Sollicitationis was enforced for 20 years by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became Pope Benedict XVI. It imposes an oath of secrecy on the child victim, the priest dealing with the allegation and any witnesses.
Breaking that oath means excommunication from the Catholic Church.
This culture of secrecy and fear of scandal that led bishops to place the interests of the Catholic Church ahead of the safety of children was a time bomb ticking and last year in Belgium the alarm shook Belgium awake. The Adriaenssens commission published a 200-page report on 10 September 2010. According to the report, the commission heard testimony from 488 complainants, concerning incidents that took place between 1950 and 1990. The report contained testimony from 124 people. Two-thirds of the complainants were men, now aged in their 50s and 60s. {Caroline Caldier, “Belgique : un rapport analyse les conséquences de la pédophilie dans l’Eglise”, France Info, 10 September 2010.+ Radio Canada, “Rapport accablant de l’Église belge”, 10 September 2010, accessed 22 September 2010.}
In 1998 it was reported that a catechism textbook for Belgian children called Roeach 3, edited by Prof. Jef Bulckens of the Catholic University of Leuven and Prof. Frans Lefevre of the Seminary of Bruges, showed comic-book-style pictures of toddlers asking sexual questions and engaging in sexual play, for example: a drawing which showed a naked baby girl saying: “Stroking my pussy makes me feel groovy,” “I like to take my knickers off with friends,” “I want to be in the room when mum and dad have sex.” The drawing also shows a naked little boy and girl that are “playing doctor” and the little boy says: “Look, my willy is big.”

"I like it to fondle my little chink" or "I like to caress my little pussy"
The drawing also showed three pairs of parents. Those with the “correct” attitude reply: “Yes, feeling and stroking those little places is good fun.” In Belgium religion is a compulsory subject and this “catechism textbook” was used in the catechism lessons in the catholic schools, until one day the Irish-Belgian Alexandra Colen, member of Parliament for the Flemish-secessionist party Vlaams Blok (now Vlaams Belang), discovered it among the schoolbooks of her eldest daughter, then 13 years old. On 3 September 1997 she wrote a letter to Cardinal Danneels, saying: “When I see this drawing and its message, I get the distinct impression that this catechism textbook is designed intentionally to make 13 and 14 year olds believe that toddlers enjoy genital stimulation. In this way one breeds pedophiles that sincerely believe that children actually think that what they are doing to them is ‘groovy’, while the opposite is the case.”
After the wife of Paul Belien, the editor of the conservative-libertarian blog The Brussels Journal, started her campaign against the Roeach textbook, many parents contacted her to voice their concerns. Stories of other practices in the Catholic education system poured in. There were schools where children were taught to put condoms over artificial penises and where they had to watch videos showing techniques of masturbation and copulation.
The Belgian Catholic hierarchy stated that the textbook was intended for adolescents, and that the pictures were meant to convey the idea that young children experience lust, a prevalent theory in contemporary psychology. Nevertheless the textbook was withdrawn after public protests by Catholics, which elicited media coverage as well as support from Church officials around the world.
Over the last decade Belgian society has become increasingly aware of the problem of abuse and neglect of children. Several court cases, and the ensuing media coverage, has brought the discussion to the public forum.In 2010 Peter Adriaenssens said cases of abuse, mostly involving minors, had been found in nearly every diocese, and 13 alleged victims had committed suicide.
The child psychiatrist, who has worked with trauma victims for 23 years, said nothing had prepared him for the stories of abuse, which multiplied as former abusers gave testimony.
“We saw how priests, called up by the commission and asked to help seek the truth, were willing to set up the list of 10, 15, 20 victims they abused during boarding school while the commission knew only of one,” he said.
Many alleged victims came forward to testify to the commission after the Bishop of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe, resigned in 2010, admitting to having sexually abused a boy before and after becoming a bishop.
The commission also stressed that sexual abuse happened within all religions and organisations, but sufficient evidence is provided to suggest that crimes have been consistently covered up. Repeated denial by the church is hardly credible in the face of evidence provided by independent investigations.

Ostrich policy
Unfortunately, however, the Roman Catholic Church tried to minimise the happenings deny all charges at first but when more and more documents could proof the charges they came up with all different stories to defend their clergymen.
Other situations where clerics have sexually acted out with adult women and men, nuns and seminarians, have not been looked at; nor the effect on any offspring they may have sired in the process. For that matter, the personal cost to victims and their families remains uncounted. How many lives destroyed through alcohol, drugs, unsafe sex or violence have there been? How much abuse has been repeated by its victims? How many suicides and ruined families? How can the total cost ever be calculated?
In any case the Roman Catholic Church lost all her credibility with the many scandals and her trying to cover it up.
The whole story made it that the already very empty churches became even more empty, but also started the debate about celibacy. More voices, even from priests and bishops called to have the possibility for a priest to get married and to have a ‘normal sexual life’.
With the call to end celibacy also came the call to give married people, lay men and women.

Child-molestation kept silent by Vatican. - Oh nooo, you are joking! Terrible! The income of the church is dropping by 2%
Statistically 75% of Belgians are called inscribed by the Roman Catholic Church, because the people let their child be baptised. By doing so they are taken into account to have their clergymen being paid by the Belgian government. As elsewhere in Europe, secularization has hit hard in Belgium and the scandals did not help to stop the decline. Sunday church attendance has dropped well below 5% .
In the year 2010, the number ‘ontdopingen’ or the ‘ending of baptism in the Roman Catholic Church’ (a ‘disposal of the baptism’) became multiplied nearly 10 times in Flanders compared to 2009; the total number was in 2010 , 5115 (2009: ca. 626), but that could be even more1because the dioceses Ghent and Mechelen/Malines-Brussels did not yet have all figures. For sure that went up even more in 2011 were people got every day some more surprising facts on radio and television and people openly declaring they were leaving the catholic Church. The most important reason they gave up, was that they could not find themselves no longer in the Catholic Church through the abuse scandals or in the manner on which the church leadership went around with these ‘paedophile crisis’ .
But, the declining number of new priests was the only thing the cardinal and bishops were concerned of. As of 2010, there are about 1,900 priests in the archdiocese of Malines-Brussels, but most of them are either retired or on the verge of retirement. Only two were ordained in 2007. {Robert Mickens, “Where have all the thinkers gone?” (interview), in The Tablet, May 31, 2008: 6-7.}
Though sexual abuse is the most shaming of all abuse and a misuse of power the church had seemed it to happen and thumbed her nose about it. As long as it happened with priests at odd moments and not publicly it did not seem to matter and the world would not have to know about it.
But honestly believing priest who had the urge to have a sex live but did not want to do wrong against Gods Will got no answers to their questions to find a solution and to break with the celibacy. Now that many priest are put in the corner and others became to old to serve properly, the Catholic Church has a real problem in shortage of priests.
Celibacy for the clergy of the Catholic Church is “the renunciation of marriage implicitly or explicitly made, for the more perfect observance of chastity, by all those who receive the Sacrament of Orders in any of the higher grades”. The character of this renunciation is differently understood in the Eastern and in the Western Church.
This law of celibacy often has repeatedly been made the object of attack, but now it got to the apogee. Those preferring that they could marry found now enough reasons to bring it forth. For them denouncing this unscriptural rule would also take away a lot of prejudices thus created. according the Catholic Church the conviction that virginity possesses a higher sanctity and clearer spiritual intuitions, seems to be an instinct planted deep in the heart of man. But common sense breaks with that. “The more holy and exalted we represent the state of marriage to be, the more we justify the married priest in giving the first place in his thoughts to his wife and family and only the second to his work” according to the New Advent Catholic Encyclopaedia.
With Pope St. Leo IX, St. Gregory VII (Hildebrand), and their successors, a determined and successful stand was made against the further spread of corruption, but today we can see that a hidden form of corruption came into existence which was more delicate, more dangerous, and more damaging.
According to Hans Küng the time has come to challenge that celibacy requirement. Celibacy is not solely responsible for these crimes of child abuse but it is the most important structural expression of the Catholic hierarchy’s inhibitions with regard to sexuality, evident also in its attitude toward birth control and other questions that caused a lot of harm. He writes: “Although there is no question that abuse also occurs in families, schools, and youth organizations, as well as in churches that do not have the rule of celibacy, why are there such an extraordinary number of cases specifically in the Catholic church, whose leaders are celibate?
The rule of celibacy is the main reason for the catastrophic shortage of priests, the serious neglect of the Eucharist, and the widespread breakdown of pastoral care—a problem that has been papered over by merging parishes into “pastoral units” ministered to by badly overworked priests.
In previous times the problem for the church was mainly the financial matter. The clergymen or monks in sacred orders who went through the marriage ceremony with any woman, or in which children were born after his ordination claimed to inherit his property upon his death. The church wanted not only a dowry when the person came to be a servant in the church. After the ‘marriage portion’ everything earned while serving had to come back to the church. Having heirs would bring the treasury of the church in danger as well as the position of certain persons, because before the celibacy people inherited also the degree of their father (bishop, cardinal, etc.)
In 1970, the decline in priesthood vocations persuaded nine leading theologians to sign a memorandum declaring that the Catholic leadership “quite simply has a responsibility to take up certain modifications” to the celibacy rule. Extracts from the document were reprinted in January 2011. Not least because one of the signatories was the then Joseph Ratzinger, now pope Benedict.
With modernization and having to be more open, the time has come that the Roman Catholic Church goes back to the first Christians and to what is written in the Holy Scriptures do find also many Belgian catholic priests and even some bishops.
For them the opposition to the law of celibacy, which frequently took the form of open agitation, both in the earlier Middle Ages and again at the Reformation period, not only calls for notice in modern times of such movements, today time is ripe to turn back to first years of Christianity and to accept priest and people who work in the church-community for the congregation, to be married.

Official report on Child abse in the Roman Catholic Church - Eindrapport van de commissie-Deetman
For the Belgian priests in charge today it is clear that ethic is driven by a moral, an idea of what is right and wrong, what should and shouldn’t be, no matter believer or non believer. but for them and for us it is clear that those who want to work for God and proclaim the Good News of the Coming Kingdom, they should even take more care to live according to the Laws of God. In those laws it is not forbidden for men of God to marry, most of the apostles and disciples who worked in the community were married. But it is totally wrong to indulge in sexual acts which or against the normal human condition and which or against the Will of God. Sexual plays with children or people of the own sex or disgusted by the Most High god of gods, who also does not like sluttish attitude.
For the priests the men are normal human beings with their needs. That the Belgian Catholic Church will ask trainee priests to take psychological tests, as it moves to tackle scandals over clerical child abuse, shall not help much.

Belgian commission for treatment of the complaints about sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church - Rapport Adriaenssens
The church may have here internal laws but they should adapt to the times. Today people have a total different attitude then some centuries ago when there had to be called a halt to the sordid sexual life clergy had. Ethic rules are different today, as well as the attitude about relationships. though on that point we notice the ordinary people gone wild and not so much sticking to healthy regimen. The pattern of living of a lot of young people is not exactly a nice pattern of living to be an example.
But the Belgian clergy do have their point to call for change.
+
To be continued: Manifests for believers #2 Changing celibacy requirement
+
Related stories:
Child-molesting priests:
- Pedophile priests scandal and Roman Catholicism in Belgium + Belgische katholieke kerkprovincie
- A Report on the Crisis in the Catholic Church in the United States
- The Nuns’ Stories
- * The “Pedophile’s Paradise” of which the part of the history of child-molestation is taken. (with thanks to the writer and The Stranger company)
Watch Sex Crimes and the Vatican - Catholic Pedophile Priests: The Effect on US Society + A Report on the Crisis in the Catholic Church in the United States (PDF format)
- Child Abuse in the Catholic Church
- Child abuse report Adriaensens
- Open wounds of the Catholic Church
- The Fall of the Belgian Church byAlexandra Colen member of Parliament for the Flemish-secessionist party Vlaams Blok
- Paedophile Priests Scandal Rocks The Church of Rome
- The World-Wide Scandal of Christian Child Abuse Which The Child Welfare Charities Kept Hidden From Your Gaze

One of the Much spoken about pictures in a religious schoolbook for teenagers
- No congregation escaped Belgian sex abuse. “It’s the Church’s Dutroux,” referring to mid-1990s trauma in Belgium + arrest of serial rapist / child killer Marc Dutroux, serving life for six rapes and four murders. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/11/3009013.htm YouTube Video: Catholic Church Pedophilia Horrors in Belgium more about father Marciel
Vangheluwe’s nephew secretly recorded Danneels pressing him to keep quiet about his uncle at least until he retired next year. “I don’t think you’d do yourself or him a favour by shouting this from the rooftops,” the cardinal warned the victim, who replied angrily that his uncle had abused him for 13 years from the age of five. The recordings were made in April; the bishop resigned 2 weeks later, the most senior clergyman in the Catholic church to have quit after being exposed. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/10/belgium-child-abuse-catholic-church - In Dutch with English fragments > Deel 4 De RK Kerk en de ‘Bedrijfsongevallen’.
- Bewijs dat paus Benedictus loog over kindermisbruik priester
- Meer dan honderd slachtoffers van seksueel misbruik in de jeugdzorg
- Uitkomsten eindrapport schokkend
- Getuigenissen uit het rapport Adriaenssens
On Clerical celibacy:
- Reflections on Clerical Family Life.
- A Brief History of Celibacy in the Catholic Church
- Celibacy and the Priesthood
- Tracing the Glorious Origins of Priestly Celibacy
- Why Celibacy Should Be Abolished
- Celibacy in church- local ministers speak out
Adding to / Aanvullend aan:
- Een Manifest voor Gelovigen
- Manifest Gelovigen nemen het woord
- The Dutch Pdf Gelovigen nemen het woord
Manifest van Vlaamse gelovigen Najaar 2011
+++
Related articles
- The Ladies Room: The Bible and Child Sexual Abuse by Ressurection Graves (thelifechangeministry.wordpress.com)
How many more religious cases of abuse will happen before we start including sexual abuse and molestation conversation in the church? As a victor of child sexual abuse, and a Christian I just wanted to know if there was any mention at all of sexual abuse as a sin in the bible. We hear so much from the Catholic Church, and from situations in the Baptist, and Non-Denominational Churches. Regardless of sect, we are self identified Christians. Did you know that 93% of predators are religious? - Bill Donahue: PHILLY JUDGE SHOULD STEP DOWN (gloucestercitynews.net)
Common Pleas Court Judge M. Teresa Sarmina said, “Anybody that doesn’t think there is widespread sexual abuse within the Catholic Church is living on another planet.”
+
Almost all the problem with priestly sexual abuse occurred between the mid-1960s and the mid-1980s. In other words, the scandal ended a quarter century ago! Are there news stories of a more recent vintage? Yes, but they are not recent cases. The John Jay College of Criminal Justice report last year said, “The most common time period for allegations reported in 2010 was 1970-1974.” Moreover, as Penn State professor Philip Jenkins said in 2010, “Out of 100,000 priests active in the U.S. in this half-century, a cadre of just 149 individuals—one priest out of every 750—accounted for over a quarter of all the allegations of clergy abuse.” In short, there is no widespread problem today. - Sex abuse ‘widespread’ in Catholic Church, Philadelphia judge says (philly.com)
The 124-page document outlines years of allegations against at least 37 clergymen and condemns the church hierarchy for failing to report the claims to police and shuffling the accused between parishes for years. - Child Sexual Abuse within the Dutch Catholic Church (patheos.com)
An independent Commission of Inquirywas conducted recently, investigating historical child sexual abuse within the Dutch Roman Catholic Church.They found tens of thousands of victims and (wait for it) about 800 possible perpetrators over the span of around 60 years. It’s incredible how much “sin” took place in a place that’s supposed to be holy.
+
The Dutch Church set up a fund for financial compensations to the victims, scaled based on the nature and severity of the abuse and are making some other attempts at reparation. While I suppose that something is better than nothing, it’s not nearly enough. Acknowledgement and change needs to happen on a much larger scale. - Should Catholics return to an abusive home? (haphazardgirl.wordpress.com)
If you ask a devout Catholic today about the violence that was blessed by the Catholic Church during the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition, they shrug it off and tell you that the current church doesn’t condone such things. They shouldn’t be persecuted for things that happened so long ago. Okay, that’s fair. We shouldn’t blame the current Catholic Church for things that happened many centuries ago. No one alive today is responsible for what went on back then.What about the current abuse in the Catholic Church? Should someone be held responsible for that? According to Catholics Come Home, the church shouldn’t be blamed for that either. All the good they do should cancel out all the bad.
+
Can you blame Catholics for leaving the faith when these types of attitudes run rampant in the church? Why should people return to the Catholic Church when it seems that nothing is being done to prevent abuse from happening? It certainly doesn’t seem that the church has a screening process that will eliminate pedophiles and child molesters. - Retired U.S. cardinal dies amid abuse testimony controversy (vancouversun.com)
Child sexual abuse controversies have rocked the Catholic Church in the United States in the past decade, and the church has paid out some $2 billion in settlements to victims, bankrupting a handful of dioceses. The Catholic Church has faced similar controversies over allegations of sexual abuse by priests elsewhere around the world. - Austrian priest publishes names of ex-Catholics (thegreatone22.wordpress.com)
Isn’t it amazing that priests can sodomize boys and girls (mostly boys) and be protected by the corrupt Catholic Church as well as the State? In other words, a child molester can become a priest, sexually abuse kids until caught (if ever) then leave the Church and go about his merry way without a worry in the world! What’s even more amazing is that parents keep paying to send their children to Catholic schools and churches so they can become prey for sexually abusive priests! TGO - Seducing Spirits – Can they live in the church? Pt. 2 (endtimeebookreviews.wordpress.com)
- Seducing Spirits – Can they live in the church? Pt. 2 (pamsheppard.wordpress.com)
Church abuse from pastors and members is the DIRECT result of seducing spirits. Seducing spirits, in the form of religious demons, have taken up office in the organized church.Another manifestation of a seducing spirit is the presence of abuse within a church system, whether it be physical, sexual, emotional, mental, financial or spiritual in nature.
+
Creepy, repulsive church abuse is widespread, and has become an epidemic in the organized church. Let me rephrase that. Creepy abominable organized church abuse, has been going on since the days of Christ. Case in point, the crucifixion. We know ALL was God’s plan, but abusive, caustic, abominable, hurtful, lying, thieving Christian leaders were easy to find then, just as they are now. The religious have a seducing spirit. The religious and their comical religiosity, have been taken over by religious demons. They feel quite at home in the organized church. - Seducing Spirits – Can they live in the church? Pt. 2 (endtimeebooklibrary.com)
The ULTIMATE seduction is the seducing-or deceiving-of one into believing a LIE.Then once someone believes the lie, that person is capable of almost committing ANY crime, ANY act…no matter how reprehensible or horrendous!This is how sexual and physical abuse has seemingly been on the increase in the organized church. (It really is just more people are coming out and telling their horror stories of how they have been abused by the church system) - Sex, Celibacy, and Priesthood: A Bishop’s Provocative Inquisition (prweb.com)

Sex, Celibacy, and Priesthood is a pastoral review of the research, sexual activity, and celibacy among Roman Catholic priests. It features heart-wrenching, anonymous, and candid self-disclosures about the sexual behaviors of heterosexual, gay, and bisexual priests. It explores the meaning of celibacy in accordance with Roman Catholic Church teachings, doctrine, and canon law. It is an honest, raw, and frank study of current perspectives on celibacy in light of priestly sexual behaviors. This new book allows for Roman Catholic priests to speak out in their own voices about their struggles and conflicts between celibacy and their sexual activities.
+
“Mandatorycelibacy creates a host of problems. This study begins to address them by letting those who live the problems speak for themselves. It is a first step toward shifting the focus from sexuality to duplicity, from hierarchically imposed restrictions to personally embraced commitments. A sobering but useful read for all who want a healthier, holier Catholic community.”Mary Hunt, Catholic feminist theologian; co-founded the Women’s Alliance for Theology Ethics and Ritual (WATER) - Thousands abused by Dutch priests, says report (windsorstar.com)
About 20,000 children have been sexually abused by 800 Roman Catholic priests or lay workers in Holland since 1945, an independent inquiry has estimated.The investigation received 1,800 reports of sexual abuse by clergy or volunteers within Dutch Catholic dioceses, congregations and religious orders.
At least 105 of the alleged abusers are still alive.
Children involved in Church organisations were twice as likely as non-Catholics to be exposed to abuse and the “mild, severe or very severe sexual behaviour” was covered up by senior clergy.
Archbishop Wim Eijk (L) and Dutch Religious Conference KNR chairman Cees van Dam hold a press conference in Zeist on December 16, 2011, after an independent Dutch inquiry into child sexual abuse committed by Catholic priests said today it found "tens of thousands" of victims since 1945, identifying 800 alleged perpetrators. Dutch bishops said they were filled with "shame and sorrow" over the Deetman Commission's findings, the latest allegations of abuse which have rocked the Catholic Church in several countries in recent years. Photograph by: Koen van Weel, AFP/Getty Images
Profitable disasters
We cannot ignore what happens today and have to be conscious of what happened yesterday.
We cannot remain isolated and detached from the world. Though, some people try to hide behind their cell phone or computer or television screen indulging in imaginative pictures. Today we have a lot of extraction and ways to exercise our imagination.
Knowledge is situated, being in part a product of the activity, context, and culture in which it is developed and used, and that is often forgotten by people.
We have to face the dualism of society and nature. We cannot ignore the central themes and perspectives that have to do with fabricated uncertainty within our civilization: risk, danger, side-effects, insurability, individualization and globalization.
Today it looks like that everything that matters can be bought and sold. Lots of people do not find it harmful that commitments can be broken because they are no longer to their advantage. The media push everybody to earn as much as possible but also to spend their money just as if it is nothing. On Sundays you can find families to whom shopping has become salvation. At work you can find colleagues to whom advertising slogans have become their litany. You can wonder when our worth is measured by how much we earn and spend if then the market is not destroying the very virtues on which in the long run it depends. The people with money who are literally invested in preventing change may have the majority of power, but they are still a minority of the actual populace. Some of them are also infected with the contemporary decease of greed. The source of greed and very fabric of their society makes it that our society gets being eaten away by crime, immorality, violence and corruption in every sphere of life.
Every disaster is taken by somebody else to make profit out of it.
The earthquake and tsunami that devastated Japan’s north-eastern coast on March 11 of 2011 shattered infrastructure, caused power outages and forced temporary factory shutdowns — meaning shipments of key parts to different countries stopped. Japan being a key supplier of components and equipment used in the assembly of cars, laptops, iPods, refrigerators and flat-screen televisions saw its position weakened and taken over by other countries from the East. Others came to help but found that aid has often come with a price of its own for the developing nations. What we always can see and what we as church also felt when we tried to get our relief supplies to the needy that the aid did not always reach the right persons and often does not actually go to the poorest who would need it the most. Aid amounts are dwarfed by rich country protectionism that denies market access for poor country products while rich nations use aid as a lever to open poor country markets to their products. We cannot give donor tax refunds because we are not sending our materials to the recognized aid funds or to the countries of which Belgium have an agreement with. Large projects or massive grand strategies often fail to help the vulnerable; money can often be embezzled away.
Several groups misuse the situation of others to enrich themselves. They find opportunities to sell products as consumer goods but also weapons. The attitude to the others brings in corruption. At first it starts whit no bad feeling to those living far away but soon it concerns also an attitude of neglect for those close by. Neglect and misuse of his own life has corrupted the stream of human life itself, and left evils which fall on succeeding generations.
The apostle Paul and the people of his time knew it already that all the creatures groan together and travail in pain together until now. (Romans 8:22) Being conscious that all living things are weeping and sorrowing in pain together we have a responsibility in our community. As Jeremiah you can question how long the land shall mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? Lots of lands have grief today, and many plants and animals have already become distinct. Destruction has overtaken the beasts and the birds. Humankind made waste of its environment.
We only can agree with the old writer that it is because a lot of people do not know or do not want to know the Creator of all things. Most of the people say: “God does not see our ways.” Because they don’t want to believe in Him. (Jeremiah 12:4) When He looks down to earth He shall be able to say that men are weeping to Him, being wasted; all the land is made waste, because no man takes it to heart. (Jeremiah 12:11)
Also for themselves humans are not so kind either when we look at the ciphers of the Great War and the Second World War. The time before and after that, measurements were taken and each continent experienced social tensions as a consequence of its choice.
The intellectual history of the last three centuries is full of mostly unfulfilled prophesies of doom. Men has looked for all sorts of answers to come to a solution and tried to find the best help in technology.
Technology can help to solve the problem of food shortages by increasing the rate of production of food. It increases the rate by manufacturing machines to aid the farmers in their daily farming processes (e.g. a tractor for harvesting crops) or by inventing a new farming technology to revolutionize the traditional farming methods.
Technology can help to solve the problem of floods by having the possibility to build mega structures to keep the water out. (E.g. building that magnificent wall in front of Louisiana).
For health scientists are inventing a new farming technology to revolutionize the traditional farming methods and are looking into matters of getting away with diseases. Often people do not notice that they have become too dependent on technology and as a result have become isolated rather than more sociable; an example would be our newest generation of children that spend countless hours playing by themselves video games, computer games or sitting in front of a TV for hours. These children rarely interact with others, except through technology.
Science and technology has helped man created a higher standard of living and jobs among its other benefits and it can contribute to get a better world for everybody.
When earthquakes, tempests, famines and floods are called ‘acts of God‘ because usually there is no other explanation for their occurrence people should go and look into their own hearts. Though we are aware that not all the people involved are guilty to what had caused the problems, but we find that it falls upon all, innocent and guilty alike.
As soon as we begin to question the suffering of innocent victims of these disasters another dilemma is raised. Are we saying that the calamities should be selective in their working, searching out only those who deserve to suffer’?
An Evil or a Symptom?
Please do find out how disobedience of men brought dislocation in the relationship between the Creator and the created.
Men live in a universe in which the consequences of what they do are inescapable, and therefore their responsibility for what they do is equally inescapable. Without this burden of ‘natural law’ man could do as he liked with impunity, and there would be no responsibility.
Such is the extent of world problems today that every individual is in some way affected – in his work, his home and family, and in what he regards a “essential services.” Peace of mind escapes him as the media bombard him with news of the latest world “situation.”
Those who solve more of a given type of problem tend to get better at it—which suggests that problems of any given type should be brought to specialists for a solution. For students of the Bible there is a guide to their daily life. The Word of God gives so many solutions that they can dig in a treasure house full of answers. Those studying the word can develop informed, balanced views.
>
An article exploring who has benefited most from aid, the recipients or the donors can be read to learn more: “Foreign Aid for Development Assistance”.
For those who seek to serve God, suffering takes on new meaning; they are in a new relationship to the Creator, and will learn to see tragedy in a new light. What is it?
Read more in: Should People be Saved from Themselves?
+
Related please do read:
- About suffering
- Disappointed with God
- Gods design in the creation of the world
- Gods instruction about joy and suffering
- Gods promises
- Gods measure not our measure
- Gods non answer
- Gods promises to us in our suffering
- Gods hope and our hope
- Gods salvation
- Hope for the future
- Importuning for suffering hearts
- Looking for blessed hope
- Miracles in our time of suffering
- Our relationship with God, Jesus and each other
- Promise of comforter
- Seems no future in suffering
- Suffering
- Suffering – through the apparent silence of God
- Suffering continues
- Suffering leading to joy
- Surprised by time in joys & sufferings
- Words from God about suffering
- Working of the hope
Hallo Wereld!
Welkom op deze door WordPress.com overgenomen Ruimte. Voorheen kon u de Christadelphian Ecclesia vinden op MSN Spaces, maar met het afsluiten van deze service zijn wij overgegaan op deze voorziening van WordPress.
Wij hopen dat de overdracht van de pagina’s van Microsoft Network Spaces naar Belgische Christadelphians Ecclesia Leuven WordPress web pagina’s goed verlopen is. Indien u fouten op de pagina’s zou tegenkomen mag u ons dit steeds melden.
Wij vinden het tof u hier op het web te mogen aan treffen. Noch fijner zou het zijn indien wij ook elkaar eens zouden mogen ontmoeten in het echt. U bent steeds van harte welkom op een van onze bijeenkomsten. Verder nodigen wij u ook uit een kijkje te gaan nemen op onze Hoofd Webpaginas Belgian Christadelphians, of Broeders in Christus. Daar kan u wie weet ook verdere antwoorden vinden over Bijbelse onderwerpen en een beeld vormen hoe en wat wij denken.
Indien u nog vragen hebt zouden wij het fijn vinden als u deze rechtstreeks durft stellen aan ons of nog beter algemeen op het web op bijvoorbeeld ons Multiply Platform: Christadelphian Journal.
Op Bijbelonderzoekers kan u ook kerkelijk nieuws,bezinningen, reflecties, gebeden en andere boeiende teksten vinden.
Wij zijn geasscieerd met de wereldwijde vereniging van Broeders en zusters in Christus: Christadelphia
Read Full Post | Make a Comment ( None so far )Belgian Christadelphians shall open their first Bible study classes in Leuven
Broeders en Zusters in Christus
Foksweg 14, B.3061 Leefdaal, Vlaams-Brabant, Belgium, EU















