Christendom and Christianity

Follower of Jesus part of a cult or a Christian

Posted on October 24, 2012. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Bible Study and Bible Reading, Christendom and Christianity, Faith, History, Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Barack Obama, Billy Graham, Calvinists, Catholic Church, Charismatic Catholics, Christian, Christian Faith, Christian Truth, Confession, Cult, Denomination, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Disciple, Doctrine, Example, Followers of Christ, Following Christ, Franklin Graham, God Son, God the Father, God the Son, Good News, Heathen, Heretic, Holy Spirit, Jehovah Witnesses, Jesus, Jews, Judeo-Christian values, Justification by Works, Karl Barth, Kingdom of God, Lord of lords, Love for God, Lutherans, Marcel Lefebvre, Mitt Romney, Mormons, Nazi Regime, New Age, Non-Trinitarians, Opus Dei, Paul Tillich, Pray, Prayer, Proclaim, Proclaiming, Rabbi, Salvation, Son of God, Talmidim, Tea Party, Teacher, Teaching, The Way, Theologian, To be Saved, Tradition, Trinity, Truth, United States |

Often you hear people calling non-trinitarians heathen and heretics, members of a cult.

Becoming a member or Getting in and out

Normally you would consider a group as being a cult when it is easy to get in but very difficult to get out. Most of the non-trinitarian groups are not so easy to become a member of because they require full notice of their teachings, the Biblical teachings and a life which is acceptable in the eyes of Jesus and most important acceptable for God. Once allowed to become a member and to be baptised, with some, after a questionnaire to cheque if you fulfil the requirements, the person has to live a Christian life according to the ordinances of the Holy Scriptures. As soon as the person does something against the Law of God he or she is mostly requested to leave the association. No foul play or being unfaithful to a partner are accepted so slutty actions are penalised by being put out of the congregation. Fornication is a good reason not to be allowed in the group any more.
Therefore groups like the Jehovah Witnesses are very easy to get out. Even if you have done no whorehopping but tell them so, you may leave for ever. (By matter of speech.) As you can see not really according to the real definition of a cult.

In case you consider every minority group a cult, then yes you can see in the whole history that many groups which started small, like the followers of Jesus where called a cult (The Way), but as soon as they got more money and political power they became integrated in the normal system and where even taken as the normal standard. As such history has seen growing the Lutherans, Calvinists or recently the Mormons.

The Most profitable considered to be the Main

In the United States once again it is proven that people prefer to choose the groups which they think could bring most profit. The Tea Party which has its mouth full of Judeo-Christian Values would never want to go in the sea with Obama, but do not see the danger into giving hands to Mitt Romney. In earlier days they shouted that Mormons where of the devil and today they call everybody to go and vote for Mitt Romney so that he can save America. Once considered a cult to avoid and never to work with is now the hope of American evangelists and conservative Christians.

In the past we have seen when push came to shove (or prison, or death) also most Protestants supported like the Roman Catholic Church, the Nazi regime regardless of where they fell on the theological spectrum. And prominent liberal theologians like Paul Tillich were just as hostile to the Third Reich as were prominent conservative theologians and pastors like Karl Barth and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. And the tragic thing is that while Catholic Church and the Confessing Church rigorously opposed Nazi claims to totalitarian power over their churches and other church-related organizations, neither said much at all in the way of denouncing Nazi policy towards Jews, Jehovah Witnesses, or to the mentally-handicapped.

Lefebvrists SSPX Priest and altar server of the guild of St. Stephen.

When a group Catholics did not want to agree with the teachings of Pope John Giovanni XXIII and preferred to keep to the Latin rite they where considered heretics and the world was confronted with different Catholic Cults like the Lefebvrists or Marcel Lefebvre his Society of St. Pius X. Pope Benedict XVI had declared that, for doctrinal rather than disciplinary reasons, the SSPX had no canonical status in the Catholic Church and, because of that lack of canonical status, the ministries exercised by its ministers were not legitimate in the Catholic Church. Tensions between the society and the Holy See reached their height in 1988, when Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated four bishops against the orders of Pope John Paul II, resulting in a declaration of excommunication against the bishops who consecrated or were consecrated, an excommunication remitted for those still alive in January 2009 with a hope expressed that all members of the society would quickly return to full communion.
At the end of last century and beginning this century when everything was turned back to previous days they were taken up again in the Roman Catholic Church and are today not seen as a cult any more.

Some years ago people spoke about Catholic institutional cults like the Charismatic Catholics, Opus Dei, a.o.

Several people also used to speak out boldly against the Church of Rome and considered it from the devil or to be the Babylon of which the Bible spoke. Though it no longer seems to be in vogue to speak of the pope as “the antichrist” (Although the following people unhesitatingly did: Martin Luther, John Bunyan, John Huss, John Wycliffe, John Calvin, William Tyndale, John Knox, Thomas Bacon, John Wesley, Samuel Cooper, John Cotton, and Jonathan Edwards.) or the Catholic Church as the “whore of Babylon”. Now many Protestants unwittingly believe that “our differences are not so great”.

Alliances

Franklin Graham told the Indianapolis Star (6/3/99) that his father’s longstanding ecumenical alliance with the Catholic Church and all other denominations, “was one of the smartest things his father ever did.” The charismatic Charisma magazine in 10/95 contained a 7-page article on Franklin Graham. They quoted him as saying, “I thank God for the warmth I see within many of the charismatic churches — their love for the Lord and love for the scriptures. …” He also said, “Probably (Samaritan’s Purse) largest base of support comes from the charismatic community.” He has referred to “Mother” Teresa as an “example of the woman God uses” (4/1/99, Calvary Contender). {Billy Graham General Teachings/Activities}

New Age movements also at one time were considered cults but after a few years many protestants found solace in such groups. Norman Vincent Peale advocated New Age and/or occult teachings as visualization, pantheism, human potential, positive confession, positive thinking, etc. Once on the Phil Donahue Show, Peale, a 33rd degree Mason, said, “It’s not necessary to be born again. You have your way to God, I have mine. I found eternal peace in a Shinto shrine.” (Shintoism is an ancient Oriental religion that fuses ancestor worship with mysticism.) He also denied the necessity of believing in the virgin birth.

Trinity to follow or not

Others would say those who are not following the trinitarian teachings can not call themselves Christian and can not be any different than belonging to a cult.

They forget that being a Christian should mean that one is a follower of Christ. In such respect that person calling himself should be following the Master Teacher Jesus Christ (hence the name Christian).

In case people consider a cult any group which teaches doctrines or beliefs that deviate from the biblical message of the Christian faith, they should first confine that Christian Faith. In Christendom we see lots of denominations and in each denomination people shall be able to find many more opinions and deviations from their main confession. Some say that “cults often teach some Christian truth mixed with error, which may be difficult to detect.” But they do not give a proper definition of that Christian Truth, which would be, according to the words of the many denominations being something very different from one to the other denomination, so that every denomination could be categorised as a cult.

Features

According the fundamentalism’s leading spokesman evangelist Billy Graham there are some features common to most cults:

• “They do not adhere solely to the sixty-six books of the Bible as the inspired Word of God. They add their “special revelations” to the Bible and view them as equally authoritative.”
As such all the believers who accept the apocryphal books as worthy spiritual food, would be considered a cult. This also means the Roman Catholic Church is for those Americans a cult. Especially the Roman Catholics should then also be seen as a cult, because they also have several revelations by the saints they take for granted and of inspirational value. But in several protestant denominations we also do find groups which like to use several theological and devotional books by human writers which they consider to be inspired by God. According to Billy Graham they should also come under the denominator of being a cult.

English: The icon was painted by artist Nicholas Morosoff in 1935 at the request of Bishop Wedgwood for the St Francis Church in Tekels Park, Camberley, and hangs above its main altar. Courtesy Liberal Catholic Church of St Francis of Assisi. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

• “They do not accept that our relationship to Jesus Christ is a reality “by grace through faith” alone, but promote instead a salvation by works.”
By saying this they do not understand what those Christians get from the Bible, the infallible Word of God. For those, like Christadelphians, who agree that Christians should live up to their faith it is clear that it is not enough to be baptised to be saved, because faith without works is death. Strangely the others forget that they also dismember people from their congregation because they have done something which they consider to be bad. But that is in contradiction with what they say, because when that person would be saved for ever than he also should be accepted as Christian for ever. It is not right to think any murderer or wrongdoer shall go to heaven because there is the reality of Christ dying for all sinners. If they do not repent they shall not enter the small gate of the Kingdom of God (which also shall be on earth).

• For lots of Christians non-trinitarians “do not give Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, full recognition as the second Person of the Trinity, composed of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.”
Yes they do not recognise him as a part of some trio. They recognise him in his full potential. They do not see a God who came onto the earth to fake his death. Jesus really died, while God, as a spirit, can not die and has ever been and shall have no end. Jesus had a beginning (being born) and an end (died at the stake).
Fully recognising the offer Jesus brought, makes his action much more important than trinitarians want to see Jesus. His humility and his preparedness to give his life for people he did not kno, has more value than a God who could straight ahead, in heaven when the first sin was committed, take action and bring everything to an end. In such instance not so many people had to suffer so much. This would make God also to a very cruel person. But God is a God of love, who wanted to give men a change to prove that they could rule the world better than Him. (Part of the question in the garden of Eden).
We had to wait such a long time because it was only with Jesus, that God did find it time to bring a solution with giving a God send man, who could be tempted (remember God can not be tempted) but did not let himself go. Jesus kept straight in line with God’s teachings. Jesus choose to follow his father and to keep totally to His commandments. He is the only one man who could prove to be able to follow God, out of love for God and not wanting anything in return for it. As such, though at first lower than the angels, Jehovah God gave him a higher position and made him unto a mediator between God and men. The ones who consider, like it is written in the Holy Scriptures that Jesus is the son of God and not god the son or God Son, give Jesus full honour for all the work he has done.

Listening and reacting to Scriptures

When Scripture is life-changing, as God’s Word is “living and active” (Hebrews 4:12) people who get to know the Bible to be infallible should under its inspiration come to insight and how more they come to get to know they should adjust their thinking and their way of living.

When we hear God’s Word, whether at a meeting, church service or in private reading, we should “devour” God’s words to us and allow them to become the joy and happiness of our heart (Jeremiah. 15:16).

After the Torah we got Prophesies and Writings to gut us under way to the Gospels to be able to recognise the God send man Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Jeshua) who was son of men and as son of God brought salvation unto many. His disciples and followers coming out of all sorts of layers of the population where preachers brought the Word of God and the Word of Christ “were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles” (Acts of the apostles 2:42; cf. 2 Timothy 1:14) long before the New Testament was written–and centuries before the New Testament canon was settled. Those who call themselves Christians should carefully to the life and beliefs of those first followers of Christ.

Doing the same

In case you want to call yourself Christian you should do the same as the first Christians who also believed that Jesus never took himself to be God himself or to be equal with Him.

“I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.” (John 13:15 NIV)

“To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.” (1 Peter 2:21 NIV)

“Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.” (1 John 2:6 NIV)

“5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature {Or in the form of} God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,” (Philippians 2:5-6 NIV)

They believed in Jesus, to be the long awaited saviour who as son of men and son of God brought God to us all to be our Father as well.

“I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one “like a son of man” {Daniel 7:13} with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.” (Revelation 14:14 NIV)

“When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.” (Matthew 10:23 NIV)

“And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”” (Matthew 3:17 NIV)

“”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, {Or his only begotten Son} that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16 NIV)

For us it should be as for them that Jesus shall have to be the Master Teacher and the example for us to come to God and a better life. He, Jesus, should be our main teacher and not theologians or scholars who say they speak in the name of God. Christians should take Jesus as their Rabbi.

“”You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord’, and rightly so, for that is what I am.” (John 13:13 NIV)

“Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Hebrews 12:2 NIV)

“”But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi’, for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.” (Matthew 23:8 NIV)

“Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1 NIV)

Christians do believe salvation belongs to God and is in Christ who came into existence only a few centuries ago, after 42 generations, when he was born (begotten) in a special way.

“Today in the town of David a Saviour has been born to you; he is Christ {Or Messiah. “The Christ” (Greek) and “the Messiah” (Hebrew) both mean “the Anointed One”; also in verse 26.} the Lord.” (Luke 2:11 NIV)

“But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.” (1 Corinthians 15:38 NIV)

“17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ. {Or Messiah. “The Christ” (Greek) and “the Messiah” (Hebrew) both mean “the Anointed One”.} 18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 1:17-18 NIV)

“26 In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favoured! The Lord is with you.” 29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favour with God. 31 You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; his kingdom will never end.” 34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called {Or So the child to be born will be called holy,} the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37 For nothing is impossible with God.” 38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.” (Luke 1:26-38 NIV)

“Then those who were in the boat worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”” (Matthew 14:33 NIV)

“I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”” (John 1:34 NIV)

“But these are written that you may {Some manuscripts may continue to} believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31 NIV)

“and who through the Spirit {Or who as to his spirit} of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God, {Or was appointed to be the Son of God with power} by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 1:4 NIV)

“(and for this we labour and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, and especially of those who believe.” (1 Timothy 4:10 NIV)

“And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Saviour of the world.” (1 John 4:14 NIV)

“And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”” (Revelation 7:10 NIV)

“30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Saviour that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.” (Acts 5:30-31 NIV)

“For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:9 NIV)

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in {Or through} Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23 NIV)

Jesus Christ, the Messiah, left his followers as a Church in case they listen to him Jesus, with divine authority to teach in his name.

“13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, {Or Messiah; also in verse 20} the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, {Peter means rock.} and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades {Or hell} will not overcome it. {Or not prove stronger than it} 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be {Or have been} bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be {Or have been} loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.” (Matthew 16:13-20 NIV)

“”I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be {Or have been} bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be {Or have been} loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 18:18 NIV)

“”He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”” (Luke 10:16 NIV)

“And I tell you that you are Peter, {Peter means rock.} and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades {Or hell} will not overcome it. {Or not prove stronger than it}” (Matthew 16:18 NIV)

“19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in {Or into; see Acts 8:16; 19:5; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13; 10:2 and Gal. 3:27.} the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”” (Matthew 28:19-20 NIV)

“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you for ever—” (John 14:16 NIV)

Following Jesus his teachings

Christians are those who follow Jesus teachings and are also prepared to do what he asked them to do, to go out in the world and to let the name of God, to whom belongs all authority, be known all over the world.

“”I have revealed you {Greek your name; also in verse 26} to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.” (John 17:6 NIV)

“5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, 6 so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 15:5-6 NIV)

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.” (Romans 13:1 NIV)

“Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 2:3 NIV)

“So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.” (Ephesians 4:17 NIV)

“19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. 20 You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.” (Ephesians 4:19-24 NIV)

“Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2 NIV)

“”You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10 NIV)

“I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD {Jehovah}, “that I am God.” (Isaiah 43:12 NIV)

“1 Keep on loving each other as brothers. 2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it. … 4 Marriage should be honoured by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. 5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” {Deut. 31:6} 6 So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?” {Psalm 118:#6,7} 7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever. 9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. … 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come. 15 Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name. 16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. … 20 May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, 21 equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. ….” (Hebrews 13:1-25 NIV)

“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”” (Acts 1:8 NIV)

“Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ. {Or Messiah}” (Acts 5:42 NIV)

“I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.” (Acts 20:21 NIV)

“When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. {Or Messiah; also in verse 28}” (Acts 18:5 NIV)

“Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17 NIV)

Praying Christian

Over the times people could get to read the Word of God. They could learn about Adam, Eve, Abraham, Isaac, David, Christ and God. The apostles could seen and we testified that the Father has sent His son, so did not come down Himself as deliverer of the world, but send a man who could feel how every other human being could feel. He really suffered and died in the hope that many would understand his words and come to the Father to whom he often prayed and learned everybody to pray. As Jesus kept his Father, Elohim Hashem Jehovah holy, he also wanted us to keep his Fathers Name holy and to make it be known all over the world until His Kingdom comes. In our prayers we can make our requests known to God by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving because it is God who chooses us and has commissioned us to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last; so that whatever we ask from the Father in Jesus his name God may give us. It shall be in the name of Jesus {Jeshua} that Jehovah God shall give his followers, trusting only His one mediator between Him and humanity, Jeshua the Messiah, himself human.

“”This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,” (Matthew 6:9 NIV)

“Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.” (Philippians 4:6 NIV)

“You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.” (John 15:16 NIV)

“In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.” (John 16:23 NIV)

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” (1 Timothy 2:5 NIV)

Preaching under Christ for God

The apostles knew that Jesus as son of men was very well aware how limited he was and how limited we are. Jesus left his disciples but promised to come back. If we love Jesus, we should be glad that he has gone to the Father; because the Father is greater than Jesus, who now sits at His right hand.

Jesus wanted us to understand that the head of every man is the Messiah, and the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of the Messiah is God. All Christians should accept that. But yes we do see that the majority does not and want to place Jesus as head of everything. It is true that for the moment the world is still in the hands of evil and that there will come a time that everything shall be subjected to the son. But then comes a time that Jesus himself will subject himself to the only One God, who subjected everything to him; so that God may be everything in everyone.

Recognising the humility of Christ, who who served, those who call themselves Christian should also let the greater among us become like the younger, and one who rules like one who serves. Whoever among us wants to be a leader must become servant of the others, and whoever wants to be first must be slave! For the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve – and to give his life as a ransom for many. As he also served his Father in heaven, he demanded us to help him and not for a single day, either in the temple court, synagogue, church, public square or in private homes, should followers of Jesus stop teaching and proclaiming the Good News that Jeshua is the Messiah. Declaring with utmost seriousness the same message to Jews and other people from all nations. Telling everywhere to: “turn from sin to God; and put your trust in our lord, Jeshua the Messiah.” Making even more people into talmidim, or pupils and disciples, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the son and the Ruach haKodesh or the Power of the Most High His Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that Jesus has commanded us.

All that call themselves Christian should acknowledge publicly with their mouth that Jeshua is lord, but God the Most High Lord of the lord of lords. Telling everybody that this Almighty God raised Jesus from the dead, so that we will be delivered.

For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance. The one following Christ should not be afraid of the world and go into it proclaiming the Good News of the return of Jesus and the coming Kingdom of God. Like the apostle Paul every Christian should not boast merely because he proclaims the Good News — this they should all do from inner compulsion. Woe is them if they do not proclaim the Good News!

“”You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 NIV)

“Now I want you to realise that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” (1 Corinthians 11:3 NIV)

“When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.” (1 Corinthians 15:28 NIV)

“26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.” (Luke 22:26-27 NIV)

“26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”” (Matthew 20:26-28 NIV)

“Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ. {Or Messiah}” (Acts 5:42 NIV)

“I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.” (Acts 20:21 NIV)

“19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in {Or into; see Acts 8:16; 19:5; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13; 10:2 and Gal. 3:27.} the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”” (Matthew 28:19-20 NIV)

“9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.” (Romans 10:9-10 NIV)

“Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God is near you.’” (Luke 10:9 NIV)

“Yet when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, for I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!” (1 Corinthians 9:16 NIV)

“Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 11:1 NIV)

Willing to follow

Are you willing to follow Jesus, the son of God? Are you prepared to step out of the world and let all traditions for whatever they may be?

Are you willing to follow the example apostles of Jesus and dare trying to imitate them, even as Paul himself tried to imitate the Messiah? Do you want to become like Christ and become a Brother in Christ, sharing with others in the world the Good News and boasting about the works Christ has done for us all?

Do you think that those who really follow up the task Jesus has given his pupils would be a cult?

The Bible affirms that he Word of Adonai lasts forever and that this Word is the Good News which has been proclaimed to many. The things we have heard from Jesus and his disciples, which were supported by many witnesses, these things commit to faithful people, such as will be competent to teach others also. We should make use of it, to give us the spirit to get others to know God and his son Jesus Christ.

Therefore, brothers, stand firm; though some may consider us a cult we should not like them keep to the traditions of the world, but hold to the traditions we were taught by the men who God had chosen, the Prophets, Jesus and his disciples.

Christians should be those who keep to the Word of God, like Jesus did, and who remembered everything Jesus and his followers told and observe the traditions just the way the apostles passed them on to us.

“but the word of the Lord stands for ever.” {Isaiah 40:6-8} And this is the word that was preached to you.” (1 Peter 1:25 NIV)

“And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.” (2 Timothy 2:2 NIV)

“So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings {Or traditions} we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.” (2 Thessalonians 2:15 NIV)

“I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, {Or traditions} just as I passed them on to you.” (1 Corinthians 11:2 NIV)

Do you want to be a as “Follower of Jesus, part of a cult, or a Christian”?

Be a follower of the real Jesus of Nazareth who was known as the son of men and the son of God.

Christadelphians or Brothers in Christ, do follow Jesus and accept him for what he did and still does for us, as mediator between God and men.

Dutch version / Nederlandse versie: Volger van Jezus lid van een secte of een Christen

Please do read also:

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Cult or True Religion (wordsonsergebenhayon.wordpress.com)
“…if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps ‘the’ religion; and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect; but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult.” Leo Pfeffer.
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The Roman Catholic Church for example has been around ever since Constantine. He was a Roman emperor who used Christianity, which was a small cult at the time, as a means to impose his belief systems on the bishops; so he promulgated the council of Nicaea and thereby gained control of the populus. Now, over 1500 years later, people in Catholic churches today still recite the creed set down by Constantine.

Many people question the Catholic Church and other religions, seeing them as some of the biggest cults in the World today: they are viewed by many as man-made constructs which have the potential to lead millions of people astray. Religion in its current form has become divisive due to it’s many man-made and dualistic doctrines which continue to divide, separate and cause wars.
Billy Graham’s group removes Mormon cult reference from website after Romney meeting (religion.blogs.cnn.com)
Shortly after Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney enjoyed cookies and soft drinks with the Rev. Billy Graham and his son Franklin Graham on Thursday at the elder Graham’s mountaintop retreat, a reference to Mormonism as a cult was scrubbed from the website of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

Billy Graham site removes Mormon ‘cult’ reference after Romney meeting

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The removal of the post from the Graham group’s website was first noted by the New Civil Rights Movement website and then later by the Asheville Citizen-Times, which reported that the information on cults was accessed as recently as Thursday afternoon.
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When asked about Graham’s beliefs about Mormonism, Graham spokesman A. Larry Ross said in a statement that “Through an inclusive evangelistic ministry spanning more than 60 years, Mr. Graham was called to preach the transformative message of the Gospel to the whole world, regardless of one’s religious background, affiliation or none. As such, he never proselytized, targeted or labeled specific people, groups, faiths or denominations.
Defining Christianity (reneland.wordpress.com)
Simply put a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ.
The Whore of Babylon? (inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.com)
Baal-vs-The “Catholic” God
Catholic Church Abuse Inquiry – Police Expose The Christian Child Abuse – Boy Scouts (truelogic.wordpress.com)
Even Mitt Romney’s Mormon cult religion has a history of molesting children. Wow, seems these holy books teach evil over moral behavior. Good thing we have several non-believers in this world or we wouldn’t have morals.
Billy Graham’s Truce with Mormonism; Scrubs Cult Reference (crooksandliars.com)
The Christian right has cried uncle and issued a truce on Mormons to try and help elect Mitt Romney.
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During the Values Voter Summit in October, sponsored in part by the influential Family Research Council and the American Family Association, it caused quite a stir when Pastor Robert Jeffress, after introducing Rick Perry as a genuine Christian, called Mormonism a cult.
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Christian political operatives are willing to throw away any trace of their contempt for Mormonism during the election cycle. This shows how much hatred they have for the left. They’d rather help elect a ‘cultist’ to the highest office in the land rather than stick to their alleged principles. Typically sickening.
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To distinguish between a cult and a religion is to distinguish between influence and impotence. Both are, in fact, spawns of a smarmy fakery.
Why converting Muslims is taboo in the Catholic Church (catholicherald.co.uk)
What are they talking about at the Synod for Evangelisation? This article by Sandro Magister tells us that the Bishops have broached the taboo subject of conversions from Islam to Christianity. It makes interesting reading, despite the rather ponderous translation, (read the original here ) and I was particularly struck by this section of it, which I beg readers to consider carefully:

“The Muslims do not see the difference between Christians and Westerners, because they do not distinguish, themselves, between what is religious and what is political and social. What precedes the Westerners is perceived by the Muslims as preceding the Christians. Now, Western behaviour, especially on the cultural and political level and in a general way, harms the religious and national sensitivity of the Muslims, their values, their ethics and their culture. Consequentially, this forms an obstacle to their openness to Christianity and to their possible evangelisation.”
Billy Graham: Mormonism No Cult (orthodoxyandheterodoxy.org)
Sociologists of religion use cult to refer to a religious group that does not regard itself as exclusively true yet has negative relations with the surrounding society. Those two factors—exclusivity and societal relations—form the basis for sociological definition of religions into four kinds of groups: church (exclusive with good relations), denomination (inclusive with good relations), sect (exclusive with bad relations) and cult (inclusive with bad relations). Yet almost no one uses these terms in the way sociologists of religion use them.
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I think what is really meant by cult in most modern Evangelical parlance is “bad/weird religious group.” And of course perhaps such a definition is right in its own way.
Grahams tighten Romney ties (newsobserver.com)
The election-year embrace of Mitt Romney by some evangelical Christians now borders on a bear hug, given a series of moves by Billy Graham and his family that appear to say it’s OK to vote for a Mormon.
Billy Graham website admits scrubbing ‘Mormons’ from ‘cult’ list after endorsing Romney (rawstory.com)
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association confirmed on Tuesday that it had removed all references to Mormonism as a “cult” from its website after their founder announced his support of Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney.

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Breaking up with a cult

Posted on September 21, 2012. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Christendom and Christianity, News and Politics, Religion | Tags: Adultery, Baptist, Blog, Blogger (writer), Cult, Eleanor Phelps, Following Christ, Fred Phelps, Jakob Phelps, Journalist, Louis Theroux, Marty Duren, Most Hated Family in America, Shirley Phelps-Roper, Sin, Topeka, Westboro Baptist Church |

In “A plea to all media outlets re: ‘the Westboro cult’” Marty Duren gives us an idea how the attitude of some one who has been in a cult does not change easily.

He let his readers know on his blog mitsilancer that he has been a member of the “Westboro Baptist Church” (WBC), which is situated in Topeka, Kansas. This so called Baptist Church which has not much to do with the original Baptist Church nor with the later American Southern and other Baptist unions.

Cult-leader dies

This week the news came out about the death of Fred Waldron Phelps (1929-2012) who jJudging by the smell and decomposition of the body, officials from the coroner’s office say Pastor Phelps’ probably died at least six months ago. Because there wasn’t any sign of foul play this would mean that nobody of his church ever questioned why dey did not see their leader or why he did not preach to them for such a long time. It also proofs that it is or are other people who are in charge of his church and several companies. It also looks more that it is Margie Phelps, daughter of Fred Phelps, who runs the Westboro Baptist Church.

Fred Phelps (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Not so surprising is that the investigators did find the pastor in front of his television still playing, and appeared to be “scrambled up 80s pornography.” From all the reactions he made and how he let his church members react on pornography and other sex related issues, we could finger out that this man was very obsessed and frustrated with sex, social and religious matters.

Davis Shields, one of the coroner officials on the scene said “I think I saw boob in there” . “But with this stuff, there’s really no way to be sure.”

Probably the members of the Westboro Baptist Church have been too busy with “all these funerals against all the fag-enablers,” like Jakob Phelps said that they were not able to take some time to visit their granddad. His grandson showed some signs of embarrassment and said “I was thinking that maybe we could sort of, prop him up and put some make-up on him to still make him look alive, like Weekend at Bernie’s.”

“Oh really? You want to put make-up on him? You must be a fag sent from hell,” said Phelps-Roper. “Get the hell out of here! God will punish you!”

Pictured

Despite some disagreement, most of the members of Westboro say they will be proud to “do the Lord’s work.” But like Louis Theroux showed already in his documentary series for the BBC, life is not as rosy and clear as it looks on first site.

Westboro Baptist Church members from Topeka, Kansas protesting in front of RFK Stadium located in Washington, D.C. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Louis Theroux, who has done several series of films on, among other subjects, various fringe groups in our culture like neo-Nazis, UFO believers, survivalists, etc. He lived with and filmed the Phelps family for “The Most Hated Family in America“, a 2007 BBC documentary, shown in many countries, on the Westboro Baptist Church. Mr. Theroux wrote an article about his time with the Phelps family for the Guardian newspaper and oddly enough, describes a family somewhat like the rest of us but whose head of the household holds some very strange beliefs which he has managed to instil in the rest of his relatives.

With the years there has been not always such unity in-between the family members; let alone the church goers.

When we see all those small kids having to picket and shouting ugly words, of which they do not understand the essence and about subjects of which they have no clue. When they would become older and starting to learn certain things at school and hearing other opinions they must become torn between many pushers and pullers, having to go into the battle on all camps.

Possibility of changes

Some think the death of Fred Phelps, apparently from natural causes, means the reasoning within the church could be shifting.

“I’m putting together a sign here for when we protest the demonic Fred Phelps fag,” said daughter Eleanor Phelps. “It says ‘Thank God For You Dying In Your Sleep’.”

Church members went on to show other signs they were preparing for future protests, including “Thank God For Car Crashes”, “God Punishes Fags With Diabetes”, and “Homo Sex = Cardiovascular Disease”.

It all does not fit a Christian.

Growing up with hate language

When somebody grows up with such hate language and with feelings against one or more groups in the society you can wonder how they shall be able to become part of that society and shall be able to work in that society.

The Westboro Baptist Church began picketing funerals in 1998 and initially targeted the funerals of individuals they believed to be homosexual. But the protests later expanded to other funerals and, starting in 2005, the church started protesting at the funerals of military soldiers who died in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We do not know how long Marty Duren has been a member of the WBC but clearly he has not unlearned the way of talking of those people. He clearly did not yet break out of the words they use, and has learned that he could reach something with throwing mud.

He calls the journalists and bloggers “cheats,” “word thieves” and “plagiarists”, and would like tht they hear to his voice and follow him. Though in the years it were many journalists and bloggers who pointed out to the dangers of this old man, they now become accused and at the same time Duren asks for their help, while they have always been on the brink of helping to open the eyes of those members of the WBC.

Having a name & Writers giving a name

He is surprised that a “Westboro Baptist Church” Google search returned thousands of stories from news outlets, but forgets that it was under that name the organisation of pastor Phelps worked and also wanted to be known as the voice of God. They always have said to be from the Old School (or, Primitive) Baptist Church. The press has always been open to listen to them and to their opponents and many have tried to give a fair picture of both parties. A lot of journalists and bloggers also kept neutrality and did not want to bring a verdict on that organisation , which presented itself as a church. several of the writers also did not want to pass sentence on one of the involved parties, but wanted to inform the public. Others gave their readers their opinion so that those could judge for themselves.

It was the WBC itself which presented, and still do, that they adhere to the teachings of the Bible, preach against all form of sin (e.g., fornication, adultery [including divorce and remarriage], sodomy), and insist that the sovereignty of God and the doctrines of grace be taught and expounded publicly to all men. On one site there were the theological blogs and religious organisations and on the other site where those who had to inform the public of what was going on in the world. But all parties had to go on to press material given by the involved parties, and today that is also not different. We only can go on interviews, press material, and printed material given onto us by the different parties involved in the question we are looking at. All bloggers shall look at such material from their own point of vision. With bloggers it is possible you get a more subjective interpretation that by journalists for a general newspaper.

We do not understand Mr. Duren, what he want to accomplish, now he is throwing mud at the many writers who always have been wiling to spend time to research and to bring certain matters into discussion.

Lies and vile language

For this reason we also would like to ask Mr. Duden why he still considers it ‘to be Arminian lies’ that “God loves everyone” and “Jesus died for everyone”? He clearly still does not want to believe in the One and Only God, but looking at his site is even prepared to go to fight against those Arminian and other non-trinitarian Christians.

We do get the impression he is still running with the idea of that WBC which thinks to believe the Bible and to live according the Bible.

He himself has now become a member of the bloggosphere. This means he now has also become one of those writers, about whom members of groups could talk like he does. We do hope he shall find a way to get rid of his past education of hate-actions. It certainly would not be a good attitude for a real Christian to show such hatred and to use such vile language.

Putting away an accustomed attitude

But his way of writing shows how difficult it is for people who have been in such a hate-system or hate-group for a while. this also clearly shows the reason why people should act on such groups and in particular on the innocent little or young children. They are an easy prey for cultgroups and they often have no choice when their parents are part of a cult. For this reason it is the community who should take up her responsibility much more. They should protect the youngsters and the weaker ones as well the weak-minded.

He may be right in stating “Simply stated, Fred Phelps and his Topeka followers are a cult, and should always be designated as “the Westboro cult.” They should never be called a “church,” nor should they be called “Baptist,” ” (here we plagiarize – according his words- his writing on his site, though he asks as well, though he himself asks also to copy or use his text as a template “for your own post. Please share on social media as you have opportunity”.) But his continuing “and it is grossly inaccurate, as well as offensive to millions of Americans, to continue to do so.” is overdone and shows also how important he thought his group was, and how the figures of attendants of that cult group are still exaggerated in his head.

What we can see with cult groups is that often they attack others a lot, but they cannot stand when they have to receive comments or when they are attacked by others with the same weapons. For those wanting to cut loose the ties with a cult they shall need a lot of time to readjust and to get used to communicate on a normal manner. They also shall need time to readjust their mind, their way of thinking and their way of talking. We can only hope for Mr.Duren that he shall be prepared to learn that and that he shall be willing to take the time and energy to transform himself to cut himself loose from his old ties.

Able to change

It is only by willing to open up the mind that the spirit shall be able to change and that a person who was been taken in by a cult shall get himself free of that cult.

We wish him good luck on his journey in a new world for him.

°°°

Find Marty Duren his blog: mitsilancer and his plea: A plea to all media outlets re: ‘the Westboro cult’
Find the mainblog of the Westbor Baptist Church: God hates fags
The Most Hated Family in America
Announcing picketing upcoming funeral
Marty Duren’s Plea against Westboro Baptist Church
Leider van meest gehate familie sterft
Fred Phelps’ Death Prompts Westboro Baptist Church To Protest His Funeral

Perhaps of interest:

Fred Phelps attended Bob Jones University; rape-apologist now on BJU board
Bob Jones University is currently pretending that Fred Phelps did not go to their school. Is that FUNNY or what? I can remember when they would have been proud, but demonstrating at the funerals of Elizabeth Edwards and Steve Jobs? Even too embarrassing for BJU!
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At this time, I was borderline Opus Dei myself (saints preserve us) and was in the grip of that Old Time Religion, like really really old. I considered Protestants heretics, and the more Protestant, the more heretical. Since I live in Jesusland (see map HERE), this gave me Major Attitude. I was in the religious minority, and I enjoyed it.
I would compare my self-righteous pseudo-Opus-Dei buzz to the same buzz I got from being a Maoist for a few scant months (nobody lasts long under the Chairman)… it’s a feeling of certitude that I often miss, now that I am not certain about so many things. Being existentially certain takes a lot of the hesitation, confusion and fear out of everyday life. Therefore, I totally understand the hypnotic draw of fundamentalism.
Open Salon and God Hates Fags
This humorous slogan, a variation of Phelps’ protest mantra, has also become a common counterprotest to Westboro. It also is accompanied by actual Bible verses.
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How far do we go in permitting Freedom of Speech? At what point does one cross a line and one starts promoting hatred and/or violence? The web site Subverted Nation by Adam Austin promotes anti-Semitism. The Ku Klux Klan promotes white racism. That stuff is kind of scary, especially when you start seeing references to Hitler and the Nazis. Show me a swastika and I get a tad apprehensive.
However, Fred Phelps is so virulently anti-gay with such a bizarre, sometimes irrational message, I wonder if he doesn’t come across as more ridiculous than dangerous. Then again, after viewing some videos and listening to the bunch of them, I’m surprised how some counterprotesters keep their sense of humour without wanting to go over and slap Phelps silly.
Westboro Baptist Church About WBC A Publicity-Hungry Group Pickets Inspire Legislation and Legal Action A History of Anti-Gay Hatred Fred Phelps Disbarred In Their Own Words: On Jews On Gays On Blacks On Christians On America Responding: Responding to the Westboro Baptist Church (.pdf 116 KB)
Read More:

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Westboro Baptist Church praises Sikh temple shooting (rt.com)
Almost immediately after the shooting at the Sikh Temple in Wisconsin, leaders of the Westboro Baptist Church took to Twitter, calling the shooting a beautiful punishment from an angry God.
Westboro Baptist Church Attracts “Pigs,” Causes Clash (offthebase.wordpress.com)
This post is for all those who have turned out to protect military family members of fallen warriors when members of…
Ever-Offensive Westboro Baptist Church Praises Sikh Shooting (thedailysheeple.com)
Fred Phelps, the leader of Westboro, wrote on Twitter that the shooting was a “beautiful work of an angry God who told Wisconsin to keep their filthy hands off his people (WBC!) #godsenttheshooter.”
Westboro Baptist Church Threatens To ‘Super Picket’ Aurora Prayer Vigil For Batman Shooting Victims (huffingtonpost.com)
Using the hashtag #ThankGodForTheShooter, Examiner.com reports members tweeted out their plans to “super picket” the candle lit prayer service, saying “God is at work in Colorado.”
Westboro Baptist Church to Picket Sage Stallone Funeral (jdjournal.com)
The Westboro Baptist Church is known for its protests at funeral for military personnel because of its anti-gay agenda. Now, the church has decided to target Sage Stallone because of his father’s relationships.“Adulterous dad brought wrath of God on son. ‪#BloodOnDadsHands ‪#picketfuneral ‪#woe,” Phelps tweeted. She also tweeted, “Tell @TheSlyStallone to mourn for his sins, not pimp out son’s dead body to more proud sin!”
California Gov. Brown signs bill banning protests near funerals (earththreats.com)
California Governor Jerry Brown signed legislation Monday which makes it a crime to protest a funeral unless the protesters are at least 300 feet (91 meters) away, the governor’s office said. The bill is mainly in response to controversial demonstrations by the Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church.

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People of Faith for Obama video

Posted on September 20, 2012. Filed under: Christendom and Christianity, News and Politics, Religion | Tags: Baptist Preachers, Barack Obama, Bill Keller, Christian values, Faith, Freedom, God, Huma Abedin, Islamic Phobia, Jim Sensenbrenner, Judaism, Judeo-Christian, Liberty, Marcus Ampe, Michele Bachmann, Mitt Romney, Old World, Pluralism, Politics, Religious Diversity, Religious Freedom, Thomas Jefferson, United States, United States Constitution, Worship |

Bill Tchakirides does not think control of the Muslim Brotherhood is in America’ purview… but having extreme right Baptist preachers pushing anti-Muslim sentiments worldwide is bound to cause an extreme response. {Looking at the current relationship of religion to government I am returning to Jefferson}

Several times we did hear Mitt Romney saying that if he is elected president, he will emphasize the role of God in American society and will not “take God out of the public square.” this to the likeness of many conservative Americans. We sometimes wonder if they remember also to which denomination Romney belongs and how he sees the differnet figures: God, Jesus and his prophets.

On Monday a “People of Faith for Obama” video was unveiled as a new initiative to mobilize voters that included Web video of the president and a faith platform.

In the video candidate Obama makes the case that his faith plays a major role in his decision-making process. He says when hearing stories of faith from Americans he is touched, “They reinforce the power of my Christian faith which has guided me through my presidency and in my life, as a husband, as a father, and as a president.”

“The American people should know this: In a changing world, my commitment to protecting religious liberty is and always will be unwavering. As America’s religious diversity grows, we have the chance to reaffirm the pluralism that has defined us as a nation. A pluralism that is expansive enough to protect the rights of all to speak their minds and to follow their conscience.”

The president also made specific reference to the issue of religious liberty. “In a changing world, my commitment to religious liberty, is and always will be unwavering,” he said.

The last ten years the Islamic phobia has grown in the capitalist countries. In their fear for people they preferred to put all Muslims under the same banner and started even thinking they worshipped an other God than the Jews and Christians. Though real Christians also should adhere to One God who is Only One.

Lots of Americans do not seem to see the danger when religion and politics become tied together and certain denominations do get into power. Marcus Ampe on Marcus’ Space wrote a series on the reasons why many fled the Old World and wanted to find new pastures where they could build up a new life and have religious freedom.

On several occasions Barack Obama let the world see his family and without spending word on it showed certain Christian values.

On more than one occasion Obama let people know that a president of the United Statesof America had to be a president for all Americans. But he added also that a president without his people could do nothing. It was nothing he could do at his own. He also wanted that the different ethnic groups got to understand that they all had to work together. “We’re greater together than we are on our own. These shared moral obligations have guided me as president,” he said. For all

Though it had not been easy for him working against the stubborn negative attitude of the Republicans he tried to work on getting education for every one, diminishing poverty, and wanted to tackle immigration. On all occasions Obama showed that he was and still is “standing on the side of human dignity and the belief in the inherent worth of all human beings.”

English: Official Congressional portrait of Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Last July the longtime Republican congressman Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI) praised the Constitution’s ban on religious tests to hold office, saying Thomas Jefferson’s vision “was right.” When the constituent responded with bigoted accusations about Islam, Sensenbrenner countered: “Religion is a personal issue to every one of the people who lives in the United States…And that has been one of the most cherished freedoms that this country has had since it’s beginning.”

“I think the Constitution in saying that there shall never be a religious test for any office of trust and profit under the United States meant that people should not be judged on the basis of their religious beliefs or lack of religious beliefs. That was Thomas Jefferson that put that in the Constitution — I think he was right.” said Sensenbrenner.

More people should listen to his words and understand that the First Amendment prohibits the government from making a distinction between what is “good religion” and what is “bad religion.” “That’s none of the government’s business.” he continued, stating also that religion is a personal issue to every one of the people who lives in the United States.

Those who want to build up the United States of America, should better study their history and should better take some time to read some writings from the Pilgrim Fathers and from those who escaped the Old World for religious and political reasons.

In case people would like to live in a free country they also should be able to say and think whatever they want in respect to others. In a free democratic state all the people should be able to choose either to believe in a God, many gods or no gods at all. They also should have the liberty to choose how they want to practice their faith. No governement should be allowed to dictate which faith or how people have to practice a faith. Also when people do not want to practice a faith they should have the same rights as the other inhabitants. “Whether you say you’re a member of a faith but don’t practice it, it’s none of the government’s business. ” agrees Sensenbrenner. “And this is the whole issue of religious freedom. And that has been one of the most cherished freedoms that this country has had since it’s beginning.” he said.

America can be proud in a certain way that they can get lots of people into their many churches, even mega churches. But what is preached over there in those churches is often not according to the Bible. Lots of preachers also have more actor skills than believing in God and in following Jesus, the son of God. You should read the article Quote by a Crazy Christian – His solution? Vote for Jesus! by Bill Tchakirides to have an idea how far certain preachers, like the Televangelist Bill Keller (said by some to be the most popular televangelist in America), want to go to throw dust in the Americans their eyes. Often the churchgoers do not wonder what a certain man who had been in prison brings them. Satan is the key figure in those preachers doom-scenarios. Remembering that Satan for lots of Americans is a real demonic personality. A ghost or being hovering all over the world to get people in his nets. According to him Satan has a lot of accomplices. Mitt Romney, is such a henchman and a 5th generation member and priest of the Satanic Mormon cult.

Bill Keller forgets that many conservatives consider Romney as the one who is the Christian who can lead the country, while Obama is the Muslim who would bring their country into doom of the satanic Islamic world.

Those white American evangelicals and conservative Christians also still think that Jesus was a white Caucasian. Many even do not want to accept that Jesus would have been a Jew. For most of them it is clear that the Jews killed Jesus, and more likely they would not mind having got rid of all the Jews in the world.

Already more than fifteen years ago Marcus Ampe gave a warning that we should be careful that the West was not heading for a similar situation as in the 1920ies-1930ies, having first a financial crisis, followed by a political crisis and a swoop to the far right, with having fanatics sawing the seed for religious phobia and fanaticism. The Catholic church played a dubious role in Western Europe, and now we should be careful not to have an evangelical streaming to dictate political direction of which it shall be sorry after a few years, but then it would be too late.

Read:

Edward Wightman

Posted on September 6, 2012. Filed under: Announcement, Christendom and Christianity, History, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: 16° Century, Anabaptists, Athanasian Creed, Baptism, Bartholomew Legate, Burton, Church, Church of England, Day of Judgement, demonic possession, Denomination, ecclesia, Edward Wightman, Fallen Angels, Hades, Hell, Holy Spirit, Infant Baptism, Martin Luther, Mortality of the soul, Nicene Creed, Pilgrim-Fathers, Priesthood, Sheol, Son of God, Soul, Soul Sleep, Thomas Darling, Trinitarianism, Trinity |

One of the Pilgrims to the New World was the Wightman family. Edward Wightman (Burbage, December 20, 1566 – April 11, 1612) has the rather unenvied distinction of being the last of the religious martyrs in England to be burned at the stake. He was a Separatist (the same religion as the Mayflower passengers followed), which did not go over well with the Church of England, the only accepted religion of England back in the early 1600′s.

Edward Wightman born at Wykin Hall, Burbage, near Hinckley, was most likely as it happened in te 16° Century, baptised, as most infants were christened. He went to Burton Grammar School, served an apprenticeship as a woolen draper in the town of Shrewsbury and entered the clothiers business of his mother’s family. In 1593 he married Frances Darbye of Hinckley and settled in Burton.

Featley correctly notes the several sorts of “anabaptists” that existed in the 1640s

Edward Wightman was a person who wanted to know God and wanted to serve Him how God wanted it, and not how the State wanted the people to worship. He became very interested in the ideas of the anabaptists and became a minister of the local Baptist Church.

Martin Luther‘s view of the “soul sleep” interested him and by going through the Bible several times he got a more clear view. It seems that he must have been a very important religious and well-respected public figure, because in 1596 he was chosen as one of the leaders assigned to the investigation of demonic possession by 13 year old Thomas Darling. His involvement in the Darling case proved a turning point in his life, making him entirely amenable to the possibility of unmediated spiritual intervention. Darling claimed not just to be possessed by the devil, but engaged in a series of ‘spiritual wars’ in which both demonic and angelic voices were said to emanate from him:

“As I know at this present for a certainty, that I have the spirit of God within me: so do I with the like certainty believe, that in my dialogues with Satan, when I [quoted] sundry places of scripture, to withstand the temptations he assaulted me with: I had the spirit of God in me, and by that spirit resisted Satan at those times, by [quoting] the scriptures to confound him.” (S. Harsnett, A Discovery of the Fraudulent Practices of John Darrel, London, 1599, p 290.)

When you think that there are fallen angels who are devils, they would need a place to reside. When they hoover over the earth and try to catch people in their nets, others could see the damage those devils do to people. Would it be right when somebody else brings some one into doing the wrong things and when he got caught would be punished, but afterwards when he got his earthy penalty, once more he would have to die for his sins, and than again he would receive an third punishment, going into purgatory or in hell. But when people already spoke out the punishment on earth and afterwards fallen angels decided to get that person in their living quarters to be put to torture once more, what or whom had Christ Jesus than to judge when he would come back?

When people were wrung with anguish at lifetime with fear of the possibility to go to purgatory or in the worst case to hell to be tortured for ever, going into that doomplace for ever Jesus would not be able to get them out and would not have to judge them any more, because they were already judged and and sentenced on earth and in hell.

Wightman came more to the understanding of the mortality of the soul, adopting the “soul sleep” view of Martin Luther. In one of his early public messages he preached that “the soul of man dies with the body and participates not either of the joys of Heaven or the pains of Hell, until the general Day of Judgment, but rested with the body until then.”

He also got to see that this judge after Armageddon was going to sit next to his father, who was the Most High God. Also afterwards Jesus was going to hand over the Kingdom of God to His Father. So for Wightman there were too many signs in the Bible that Jesus Christ is not perfect God and of the same substance, eternity and majesty with the Father in respect of the Godhead.

Having now the Bible in his own mother-tongue he could find many answers to his questions about the person Jesus, his Father and the Holy Spirit. He came to the conclusion that the ‘Person’ of the Holy Ghost is not God co-equal, co-eternal and co-essential with the Father, who is One God, and the Son who is son of man.

His ideas

THAT the (Nicene and Athanasian) creeds are the heresies of the Nicolaitans
THAT the soul doth sleep in the sleep of the first death as well as the body and is mortal, and that the soul of the Lord Jesus Christ did sleep in that sleep of death as well as his body
THAT the souls of the elect saints departed are not members of the triumphant church in heaven

where not liked by the rulers and where notated in the Royal Writ from King James I sent to the Bishop of Lichfield in 1612 ordering his arrest and execution.

Wightman was fully aware of the king’s firmly orthodox stance, yet he set about to combat both his State and Church. Of the handful of fragments of his defence treatise that have survived, he refers to the doctrine and “heresies of the Nicolaitan;… most of all hated and abhorred of God himself … the common received faith contained in those three inventions of man, commonly called the Three Creeds … the [Apostles’], Nicene and Athanasius Creed, which faith within these 1600 years past hath prevailed in the world.” (Bodleian Library, ms Ashmole, A True Relation of the Commissions and Warrants for the Condemnation and Burning of Bartholomew Legate and Thomas Withman, 1521 B, 7, 1a–1b, London, 1651, p. 8.)

For many Christians it was “heresy” and the teachings of this radical where an atrocity to the common goods and values.

There had come into existence different orthodox groups, but Wightman had by now isolated himself from all the others, by his so weird ideas, calling into question many tenets of orthodox belief. For most people not baptised persons where from the devil and could not come before God but landed straight into hell when they died. So it was considered a horrendous act not to baptize the infants. For Wightman it was an abominable custom to keep doing the practice of the Sacraments as they were used in the Church of England. Those so called Sacraments according to Christ his Institution are totally against the teachings of Christ and not conform the practices of the first Christians. for him it was clear that “only the sacrament of baptism is to be administered in water to converts of sufficient age of understanding converted from infidelity to the faith”.

In Belgium many preachers of the baptism at a later age had been prosecuted. But they had also been killed for a teaching that looked even more horrible and is often today considered as totally out of bounds. There was a great public rejection of Trinitarianism. It was presumably on these points that he so vehemently rejected the formulae of the Nicene Creed of 325 and the subsequent ‘Athanasius’ Creed of 381. (Both of the Creeds had been structured primarily as responses to Arian denials of the Trinity. And like the Arians of the 4th century, Wightman flatly denied them.)

Following the words of the Bible, he could not find any grounds to believe in such Trinity which was never mentioned in the Holy Scriptures. After reading the Bible over and over again he could only come to the conclusion that the doctrine of the Trinity was a total fabrication. Following the essence of the Bible he got to see the true value of Jesus his actions. Only by being a man it all makes sense, having generations waiting such a long time, before the Messiah came to deliver them. Now he could understand why it took such a long time before there was somebody who could live up to the difficult standards of purity. All being descendants of the first sinners, everybody, also Jesus, as a man, had to fight against the temptations, while God even cannot be tempted. Stating that Christ was only a man “and a mere Creature and not both God and man in one person… [Although this did not mean that Christ was a man like all others but] only a perfect man without sin.” was considered over the top. (Bodleian Library, ms Ashmole, A True Relation of the Commissions, p 5.)

He also argued the Old Testament priesthood being abolished and now all Christians are in the priesthood. He also argued the Ecclesia is the church and not the “steeplehouse”, and may meet anywhere. for him it was clear that preaching goes before baptism and that the Church of England is not a church of God. For him the church of Christ was and is the only church, and hence, not a denomination.

He got to see and preached that men have free-will, not only in natural and moral, but also in spiritual actions, that man has freedom to choose or reject God’s Grace whereby they may be saved (through baptism by immersion, after repentance and confession)

There was no choice to put him on the stake on ‘Ordinance for the Punishment of Blasphemies and Heresies’, “principally those of the triune God, the resurrection, the last judgment, and that the Bible is the Word of God…relapse is to be punished as felony with death without benefit of clergy.”

But like many believers at the continent, who preferred to believe that the Bible is the Word of God and can explain everything, and that we should listen to that word and not as such to the Word of the Church, made that the power of the Church was undermined. Therefore those who preached such things should have been done away with. It was unacceptable that people would listen more to what is written in the Bible than what the Church predicated.

That Christianity is not wholly professed and preached in the Church of England, was much over the borderline and therefore, with the for them heretical teachings this unorthodoxy had to be called to an end, before he could get more converts.

The time he was living in was an age where it was dangerous to disagree with church teachings. And yet, the reason why Wightman believed different things was because he read the Bible and came to the conclusion that church doctrines were not taught in the pages of Holy Scripture. His will to hold vast to the teachings of the Bible, like many at the continent, brought that he was confronted with the investigation about his beliefs and with the punishment to die at the stake.

On the appointed date, Edward Wightman was taken to the stake, tied up, and set on fire. Immediately he started screaming and shouting out unintelligible words. For some strange reason, the townsfolk and the sheriffs got it into their heads that he was recanting his religious beliefs, so they quickly doused out the flames, untied him and cooled him off.

Burning at Stake

Once released, he continued to preach his heresies even more strongly than before, so a few days later they tied him back to the stake, and this time burned him to ashes, in Lichfield Market Place on 11^th April 1612, where a plaque still commemorates his status as “the last person in England so to die”. Narrowly edging out another accused anti-Trinitarian and heretic, Bartholomew Legate, burned in London three weeks earlier. History has marked him as a heretic, but perhaps he should be remembered simply because he read his Bible for himself.

To Edward Wightman, it mattered what you believed. It wasn’t enough to agree with the priest, every man had a duty to find the Bible Truth out for himself, and then to stand up for it. Such an attitude is quite rare today, but the Christadelphians are among those who firmly base their beliefs on the Bible and no other authority. In fact, we would agree with Wightman on all of the above statements which were taken into the accusation.

Burton Library is hosting a talk about Edward Wightman on Monday 17^th September, where Dr Ian Atherton of Keele University will speak on the subject ‘Edward Wightman: The Burton Heretic’. Tickets cost £3.50 or £3.00 for library members, and are available at the library or on 01283 239556. This talk is not affiliated to the Christadelphians.

Burton – Square in Lichfield next to Saint Mary’s church were the fire was lit under Edward Wightman of Burton-on-Trent

Religious Practices around the world

Posted on August 14, 2012. Filed under: Christendom and Christianity, Religion | Tags: Adherents, Anti-Semitism, Belgium, Church, Dicrimination, Europe, France, Intolerance, Jehovah's Witnesses, Judeo-Christian, Minority, Muslim, Ramadan, Religion, Religion and Spirituality, Religious Freedom, Religious Studies, Religious Tolerance, Statistics, United States, Venezuela |

Religious Practices around the world, Compiled and Explained

- posted by Andy Rau

– How many Christians–or Hindus, or Muslims, or Buddhists–are there in the
world?

What country contains the highest percentage of atheists?

What and where are the largest churches in the world? All of these questions and hundreds of others are answered at adherents.org[1], a massive repository of religion statistics, demographic information, and other facts about religious beliefs all around the world. Some interesting places to start are this list of the predominant religion[2] of every country in the world; an extensive database of famous religious figures[3], and a description of the largest religious groups in the U.S.[4] Church leaders, missionaries, and anyone who’s curious about the world’s religious practices will find hours’ worth of reading material.

– Links in this story –

[1] http://www.adherents.com/

over 43,870 adherent statistics and religious geography citations: references to published membership/adherent statistics and congregation statistics for over 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, movements, ultimate concerns, etc.
influential and famous adherents of over 100 different religious groups (famous Methodists, famous Jews, famous Catholics, famous Zoroastrians, famous Jehovah’s Witnesses, famous Theosophists, etc.)
lists of prominent people(actors, politicians, authors, U.S. presidents, artists, musicians, Supreme Court justices, film directors, etc.) classified by religious affiliation. These lists are linked to thousands of detailed religious/spiritual biographies.

[2] http://www.adherents.com/adh_predom.html

In most countries of the world, a majority of people (over 50%) are adherents of the same religion.

[3] http://www.adherents.com/adh_fam.html

Prominent, Notable, Celebrity, Influential, Famous Members of Various Religions and Denominations

[4] http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html

the United States has a greater number of religious groups than any other country in the world

How about a module on religious practices, too? (todayonline.com)
the next step is to have a compulsory module on Comparative Religion, to educate our population on the doctrines and practices of world religions.

It would touch on the philosophical concerns of religion, from ethics to the various ways of attaining salvation.

One who takes the course would benefit from a better understanding of the diverse views of human beliefs and practices.
Religious freedom: US not fit to preach (english.ruvr.ru)
“In the Obama Administration we’ve elevated religious freedom as a diplomatic priority”, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said while speaking at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “The United States will also stand for the value, the principle that religious freedom represents, not only for us but for people everywhere.”

This poses two main questions: why would a government, in a country where church has been separated from state, try to impose its own vision on something as delicate as religious matters on other sovereign states? And is it in a position to do so?
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Earlier this year, Pope Benedict XVI warned of a “grave threat” to religious liberty in the United States. He noted that America’s historical experience of religious freedom has been eroded “in the face of powerful new cultural currents” which are “not only directly opposed to core moral teachings of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but increasingly hostile to Christianity.” Currently, Christianity is practiced by more than 75% of the US citizens.
US says world has lost religious freedom (bigpondnews.com)
The United States says the world is sliding backwards on religious freedoms, criticising China for cracking down on Tibetan Buddhists and hitting out at Pakistan and Afghanistan.

As the State Department unveiled its first report on religious freedoms since the start of the Arab Spring, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Monday it was a ‘signal to the worst offenders’ that the world was watching.
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The 2011 International Religious Freedom Report noted that last year governments increasingly used blasphemy laws to ‘restrict religious liberty, constrain the rights of religious minorities and limit freedom of expression.’
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The report also warned that European nations undergoing major demographic shifts have seen ‘growing xenophobia, anti-Semitism, anti-Muslim sentiment, and intolerance toward people considered ‘the other.”

It complains of a ‘rising number of European countries, including Belgium and France, whose laws restricting dress adversely affected Muslims and others’.
World Backsliding on Religious Freedom (theepochtimes.com)
At a time when at least some countries are loosening up on political expression, the world is sliding backward on religious freedom, says U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.Speaking on the release of the United States “International Religious Freedom Report” for 2011 on July 30, Clinton said now more than ever, it was urgent to highlight religious freedom.

“When we consider the global picture and ask whether religious freedom is expanding or shrinking the answer is sobering,” she said at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in D.C. “More than a billion people live under governments that systematically suppress religious freedom.”
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In Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, and Burma, where regimes had fallen or moved to less restrictive practices, people were taking the first steps in newfound freedoms. The transition path, however, is fraught with its own dangers, particularly for minorities.

Violence against Coptic Christians had increased in Egypt, for example, as had incidents against the Muslim Rohingya ethnic minority in Burma, who remain severely ostracized.

The expanded use and abuse of blasphemy laws to further restrict religious liberty and expression was also cited as a growing trend. In Saudi Arabia, blasphemy against the Wahabi interpretation of Sunni Islam is punishable by death; while in Indonesia, the penalty is imprisonment.

In Pakistan, anyone blaspheming or criticizing blaspheming laws is vulnerable to assassination by extremists.

A rise in anti-Semitism was identified as a disturbing trend. The report cites Venezuela for anti-Semitic statements in official media and Iran for unrestrained Holocaust denial. In Europe, Ukraine and France saw incidents of Jewish cemeteries and synagogues being desecrated, and Hungary saw the rise of an anti-Semitic political party.

Some governments were also cited for targeting minorities as “violent extremists,” the report citing Bahrain, Russia, Iraq, and Nigeria for the trend.

“Authorities often failed to distinguish between peaceful religious practice and criminal or terrorist activities,” the report said.
Fastest Growing Religious Group in America: The Amish (?!?) (patheos.com)
Ohio State University researchers are reporting that the Amish may be one of the fastest growing religious group in America. It’s arguable that that distinction currently belongs to the non-religious:
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A new census of the Amish population in the United States estimates that a new Amish community is founded, on average, about every 3 ½ weeks, and shows that more than 60 percent of all existing Amish settlements have been founded since 1990.
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“The Amish are one of the fastest-growing religious groups in North America,” said Joseph Donnermeyer, professor of rural sociology in Ohio State’s School of Environment and Natural Resources, who led the census project. “They’re doubling their population about every 21 to 22 years, primarily because they produce large families and the vast majority of daughters and sons remain in the community as adults baptized into the faith, starting their own families and sustaining their religious beliefs and practices.”
China steps up over religious practice in Xinjiang (fmnnow.com)
Local officials in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region have taken strict measurements to prohibit religious practices among Party members, Public officials and students, as many muslims in Xinjiang are fasting during Ramadan.According to local government website of Yecheng County in Kashi, the county conducted a full deployment during Ramadan starting from July 20. All Party members, public employees and school students were prohibited to participate any forms of religious practice. While authorities responded the restrictions of Ramadan are out of health concerns. A regional spokeswoman, Hou Hanmin, was quoted in Global Times as saying authorities encourage people to “eat properly for study and work” but would not force anyone to eat during Ramadan.
Religious Accommodations in the Workplace (blogs.lawyers.com)
f you’re Christian in the United States, you may not have given much thought to how people of other religions observe holidays. After all, many Christians in the United States take it for granted that they won’t have to work on religious holidays. With the exception of some retail stores, most companies close entirely for Christian holidays, including Good Friday, Easter and Christmas. But what if you’re Jewish and observe Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, when work is forbidden? What if you’re Muslim and want to pray five times daily, even though some of those prayer times fall during business hours? What if you are you are a Sikh man who wears a turban but works at a business that wants you to wear a baseball hat with the company logo on it?It is against the law for your employer to treat you differently or to harass you because of your religious, moral and ethical beliefs. Your employer must respect your sincere and meaningful religious beliefs, and must make a reasonable effort to accommodate your religious practices unless they cause an undue hardship on the company.
Austria gives go ahead on circumcisions after religious leaders make appeals (lampandherald.wordpress.com)
In an article for Reuters, Michael Shields writes that physicians ”in Austria’s westernmost province have been cleared to resume circumcisions after the Justice Ministry reassured them that they can perform the religious practice without risking criminal charges.”

Shields says that apparently a regional court ruling in Germany caused confusion when it was reported that “the practice supported by Muslims and Jews amounted to physical abuse.” Doctors were then advised to suspend the ruling.
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If your employer discriminates against you on the basis of your religion, you may be entitled to relief in the form of back pay, hiring, promotion, reinstatement, front pay, reasonable accommodation, or other forms of relief. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 also allows you to recover your attorney’s fees.

If you believe that you’ve been discriminated against on the basis of religion in your employment, an employment discrimination attorney can help you review your options.
The DC Folly Trolley – 07/29/12 (dcwreck.wordpress.com)
Eric Cantor seems to believe he could not practice his religion anywhere else in the world as freely as he can in the United States.

I wonder how countries like England, France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and many others would interpret such a statement, to say nothing of Israel.

Of course, he could be a Pastafarian. In which case I’m not certain which countries allow freedom to practice those beliefs.

Taking his remarks about the right to practice religion freely in the U S more as a statement of American exceptionalism rather than one of limitations on religious practices in other countries, Eric Cantor’s statement does not quite ring true.

I wonder how countries like England, France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and many others would interpret such a statement, to say nothing of Israel.

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Liberal and evangelical Christians

Posted on July 10, 2012. Filed under: Bible Study and Bible Reading, Christendom and Christianity, Holy Scriptures, Religion | Tags: Adultery, Atheism, Christian Fundamentalism, Christianity, Complementarians, Egalitarianism, Egalitarians, Evangelicalism, Evangelicals, Fundamentalism, God the Son, Gods Word, Homosexuality, Interpretation, Language, Liberalism, Mitt Romney, Muslim, Slavery, Son of God, Trinity |

In the United States of America seems to whirl a wind bring clouds of evangelical and liberal Christians in coalition.

A few years ago we had the doom preachers, but they were overblown by the atheist bringing the end of the world onto the Aztec agenda for the end of 2012.

Cover of Holy Bible: 10th Anniversary Edition

Questions are asked if Christians who read the Bible arrive at a different place, but we better could ask if those Christians really take the whole Scripture to read and to compare the presented fragments or verses in the light of other verses in the Holy Scriptures.

According to Gary Tandy, Professor of English and English Department Chair at George Fox University, there is a cultural tendency in evangelical Christianity that does not leave room for “evolving” positions, complexity, uncertainty, or doubt. He is been discouraged with the nature and tenor of the conversation of Christians reacting in the wake of Obama’s interview stating his personal opinion on same-sex marriage. In Mitt Romney‘s commencement speech at fundamentalist, evangelical Liberty University, Romney only addressed the issue once, but he addressed it in tones of certainty: “Marriage,” he declared (to roaring applause), “is a relationship between one man and one woman.” Here’s what an audience member had to say in an NPR interview when asked about her position on same-sex marriage: “It’s wrong. There’s nothing else to say about it. It’s in the Bible.” This audience member’s attitude was pretty close to the old bumper sticker: “God said it. I believe it. That settles it.”

With it many questions were raised if people could accept that either their idea had to evolve with what is really meant in the Bible, or that the Bible would evolve with the times. We for sure know that many people would love to adopt the bile to their own ideas. Many would prefer that the world could progress and as such the Bible Words should have to interpreted according evolving times.

The Old Plantation (anonymous folk painting). Depicts African-American slaves dancing to banjo and percussion late 1700s

People do forget that it is not the Word of God that has to adapt to the time of the day. They also forget that often it are people who give it a certain strict meaning which is not exactly there black and white on the paper. Certain denominations do want to give it their interpretation because it suits their thoughts. America as such found a way to accept slavery and to not see any harm in using the black people do do all the dirty work for them at no special wage. We have seen a face in history that white people did not see any harm in ownership of a human being. Also poor white Europeans could find themselves in indentured servitude in the New World.

Historically, slavery was not just an Old Testament phenomenon. Slavery was practised in every ancient culture: Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman and Israelite. Slavery was an integral part of ancient commerce, taxation, and temple religion. For over 18 centuries Slavery in different forms has been imposed by Christians. But they did not see that they themselves also became slave of certain systems and ideas. In Catholic as well in protestant groups we can find defenders of slavery. Biblical verses pro- and against slavery, and textual argumentation were used on both sides.

The whole matter concentrates on the relationship of human beings against other human beings. It has been about colour, about sex and about age, that people tried to use or misuse Bible verses to get their right. Often the problem lay in the not understanding customs of the time and in the differences of forms of servitude, customary in ancient times, those condoned or cursed by the Torah.

The role of women in the human system has been also of a lot of debate.

And in the time of free sex, persons want to get to know the interpretation of the different denominations about the human relationship in a sexual context, between men and women, men and men, women and women, and also in relationship of different partners. All sort of mixes seem to be talk of the day.

We all want to be loved, appreciated and have pleasure and fulfilment in our lives. Today pleasure seems to receive first priority. And lots of people want to consider the Bible old fashioned.

Though we all should be aware that God gave us all the capacity to love and be loved, to have special friendships with others, but that it had to be in a way acceptable in the creation-system of the Almighty. From the first moment human was created God had foreseen that he could have a sexual nature, sexual desires and a will to create new human beings by coming close together. God want that people multiplied themselves.

In the United States some preachers teach that even an emotional tie is still considered adultery. They even consider it as a sin even when the emotional attracted people are not sexually involved. Naturally sin begins in the mind, and it is there that we do have to go to look for. In which way does our mind go strange?

Often people forget that God gives wisdom and also common sense. That last part is often put aside for doctrinal reasons.

Also cultural and language differences made that people wanted to adjust Biblical words, because they thought it would be better to adapt the language to the public. A decennia ago in the Dutch language we got for that reason a Prison Bible, a Youth Bible, a Bikers Bible, with modern slang words in it.

Because certain ideas seem to be offensive for one or an other group they have to be changed, the publishers think. In stead of putting a clear note of explanation of what is meant with such an expression. For example, today some publishers are wondering how they could cope with the words ‘son of’, because Muslims do have a problem with God who would have to have sex to get children. The idea of Jesus as Son of God is highly offensive to Muslims, therefore some of the Wycliffe Bible Translators prefer to use “Messiah” instead of “Son” in the translations and “Lord” instead of “Father.”

When we talk with Muslims about the Father – Son relationship, we do compare it to fosterparents, who also did not have to have sex, to be the ‘father’ or mother’ of the foster child. We also try to let them understand that any creation of a builder is a product and as such a child of the creator. We notice that many Muslims can find our way of thinking reasonable and not so wrong.

Naturally several Christians would encounter more problems when they say the son of God equals God the son, because then there is a real problem, for Christians like us, and for Muslims and Jews, who accept that there is only One God, who is the God of gods, but the Only One Almighty Elohim, Allah whose name is Jehovah. In such concept of the first mentioned Christians we do find the Trinity bias. For those trinitarians the Wycliff Translations are even a bigger problem than for us, who do not like the modern versions either. “Son of God” and “God the Father”, becoming God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are essential elements of the Christian concept of the Trinity, which is the Holy Core of Christianity according the Trinitarians. Many evangelical supporters of the Wycliffe organization find this very troubling, and are considering withholding support for the organization.

More “liberal” critics who see the Bible as a reflection of a particular people in history and their struggle with understanding their relationship to a deity argue that the historical contexts are a fundamental part of the meaning of the books of the Bible. Further, they suggest, reworking or changing the theology of these biblical texts will make missionary work among Muslims more difficult since Muslims claim that the Bible is corrupted and contains errors, and has therefore been abrogated by the Qur’an.

When publishers, for reasons to sell enough books, give preference to adapt the language to the times and culture of the moment, Muslims are very right that they charge Christianity with deformation of Gods Word. A pity they do not consider the main Bibles which stay in publication or can be found many years after they had been published for the first time. Even when certain changes where allowed and even the name of God had been taken away they stayed in the running, saying exactly the same thing as previous publications.

In that, having so many people working against the Holly Scriptures, but standing erect for thousands of years we see a much mightier hand than that of any human being. Even with some less correctly translated versions, people, who really read the whole Book, can find the Truth, because Gods Word is unchangeable.

Words are also part of passion. Which version you have in front of you, shall have a lot to do with your feelings and preferences. Wanting old language or modern language, being used to such a way of speaking or an other way of expressing oneself. It all depends on a matter of choice and ‘inner feeling’. Your love for words or love for telegram style messages. character of the person, his upbringing, schooling, formation on religious level, it shall all form the background to evaluate from a certain standpoint.

Several American Christians attempt to categorize the content of the Bible according to a pre-defined framework that is then passed on to others. The idea is to summarize and condense all Biblical teaching into a handful of topics, with a handy list of verses next to each topic, providing support for the idea. As a result, the framework becomes all-important when training students how to answer the question, “What does the Bible say about ?”

A big problem which we do encounter is that with many of those evangelicals, most often Pentecostals, many times, most of the verses in the list are being pressed into service on a topic to which they do not really relate. Or, perhaps, whether they are applicable depends upon other assumptions held by the person who created the list. Just because a person says something is true, and backs it up with a list of Bible verses, does not prove their point is true. Often the very framework that defines what constitutes legitimate avenues of inquiry, is up for debate.

A big problem we notice also that lots of them do not compare the verses and stories from the Old and the New Testament and do not take the whole picture in account.

The Trinitarian Christians want to place Christ Jesus dot in the centre. Mishkan David correctly observes: “There was a time when all astronomers held the premise that the earth was the center of the solar system. Working with that assumption, they concluded—based on very real and accurate observation—that the planets had some highly unusual traits in their behavior. It seemed that the planets accelerated at some points, and decelerated at others… and at different points on their orbit each time! The characteristic I always loved in high school science class was the notion of retrograde motion—the planets actually seemed to loop back in their paths, literally doing loop-de-loops as they moved along in their orbit!” though he seems to be a messianic Jew who does not believe any more in One God but in three gods, who are supposed to be one as well.

When people take the whole Book of Books, they shall see that Jesus is one part of Gods Plan, and that Israel is an other very important part of the Plan of World Peace. Jesus shall come on the throne in Israel, the municipal city of the Kingdom of God.

King James did like to have the full control of the Christian system in his country. In his edict number three he stated that his Authorised Bible was to retain the word “church” in the translation and it was not to be replaced with the word “congregation.” This he did because he had no jurisdiction over the congregation (people), but he did over the church (physical buildings). So you can see he never wanted the word “assembly” associated with the original meaning of the Old Testament which meant “congregation.” So he knew the correct translation, obviously, but he didn’t want it in there, that way they retain control over “the church.” (Read: Christ’s Ekklesia and the Church Compared, by Richard Anthony)

We always should be very careful what words we want to use and to which translation we want to preference. Having a preference for one or another version does no harm, and reading several versions can broaden the knowledge of every member in the community.

But all those members in the meeting, the ecclesia, should together, search the Scriptures to get to the Truth. This they should do in all openness for the Word of God, recognising that we are always living in a world which wants to give preference to certain ideas, which are not always according to Biblical Truth nor to the Will of God.

The Bible may be about vocation and election, but it is in the choice we do have to make our selves that we can become part of the elected or not. The Word of God gives the inhabitants of the universe the possibility to create a world where every creature can live in unity. The biblical emphasis, across the board, is on solidarity and love for each one and for everything around us.

In such a world we should not be tossed by political views but should stand firm in the Word of God which shall give us the necessary insight.

Marcus Ampe
2 June2012

Please do find additional reading:

The Bible is an anti-libertarian document
People long to do whatever they want. They don’t want anyone to tell them what to do or what to say. But they also long to order their lives in accordance with a concept of right and wrong, and join forces with others who have a same or similar concept of right and wrong. People are in search of a constitution, a commonwealth, that suits them. The contradiction is blatant. The Bible clashes with a libertarian point of view. The Bible is a conglomerate of texts assembled at the intersection of ancient polities, movements, institutions, and traditions. It is full of liberty-restricting provisions and considerations in the service of the long-term viability of said polities and traditions. The Bible simply is an illiberal book. At times it takes an anthropologist to point this out. In her still important critique of Jacob Neusner’s The Idea of Purity in Ancient Judaism, Mary Douglas pointed out that the rule-making that is part and parcel of biblical exhortation and, specifically, of Torah, both in and beyond the Bible per se, is coercive in intent.
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those who value individual freedoms above all will look elsewhere for a constitution and a res_publica. They will look for a framework that privileges and protects a more expansive concept of res privata than that found in biblical literature, Judaism, and Christianity.

Reimagining the Historicity of the Bible
It might also be important to try again to conceive of a history of the religion of Israel, a history of emergent Christianity and normative Judaism, insofar as they can be constructed from biblical, post-biblical, and non-biblical sources. Now is an inopportune time to walk away from the questions which have animated modern biblical studies from the beginning.
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Historicism and scientism so defined are modern myths. In the diction of Bruce Lincoln, they are ideologies in narrative form. Both stand in contradiction to the narrative of the Bible in which everything hinges on a vital relationship with a singular principle of truth, justice, and goodness which occurs to people as a God of great power and beauty.
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On the contrary, if a text presents itself to a reader as the sum of a variety of precursor texts, the whole is unquestionably greater than the sum of its parts, but an understanding of the whole is enhanced to the extent that a reader can take the text apart and put it back together again.

Moreover, if a particular textual component corrects or contradicts another, why is it irreverent or unloving to point it out? The point is obvious in the case of the book of Job. The truth it mediates lies at the intersection of not one contradittorio (cross-examination, debate) but many. It is no less true in the case of the Pentateuch, if one treats it, as one should, as a literary whole. For example, the treatment of specific topics across the various legal corpora, the Covenant Code, Deuteronomy, and the Holiness Code, embodies a debate, the sum of whose parts must be constructed beyond the bounds of the text. There is a strong sense in which the truth Torah tells inevitably resides, not in the text before us, but outside of it.

Which Kingdom Will You Serve?
What is systematic theology, you ask? It is the attempt to categorize the content of the Bible according to a pre-defined framework that is then passed on to others.

Bibles for Muslims? Should we change the Bible’s basic concepts in order not to offend one religious population?

The Problem with Certitude

My Growing Problem With Liberal Christianity

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My Growing Problem With Liberal Christianity (brucegerencser.net)
On one hand, I understand WHY many people adopt some form of liberal Christianity. They are tired of Evangelical (which is Fundamentalist) Christianity and its attendant certitude and black and white thinking. They are tired of the culture war. They are tired of being viewed as mindless, knuckle dragging Bible thumpers.
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Liberal Christians are known for reinterpreting the Bible to fit their own agenda. They write book after book to explain why the Evangelical interpretation of the Bible is wrong, misguided, or outdated. Never mind WHAT the text says. All that matters is making the square peg fit in the round hole.
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Look at Tandy’s questions. He desperately wants to believe the Bible is unclear on the matter of homosexuality. But , it is not. He is an English teacher. He values words and their meanings. What does the text say? What would an every day, non-original language educated person, in other words, 99% of the people sitting in the pew, think these verses mean?
Pat Robertson: The Bible Is “Terribly Wrong” (slog.thestranger.com)
Apparently, we can pick and choose parts of the Bible after all, says Pat Robertson. When asked on the 700 Club today why some believe “America was founded as a Christian nation” even though it allowed slavery, Robertson said, “like it or not, if you read the Bible in the Old Testament, slavery was permitted.” But Robertson concluded that despite what the Bible says, “We have moved in our conception of the value of human beings until we realized slavery was terribly wrong.” Of course, when Dan Savage made a similar point about the Bible (albeit with saltier language), the Religious Right was irate.
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We’re asking conservative Christians to ignore what the bible says about homosexuality just as they ignore what the bible says about slavery.
Let’s Talk About Sex Part 2 (brucegerencser.net)
Christianity is a text-based religion. The foundation of Christianity is the Bible, the Word of God. From the most liberal Christian to the most strident Fundamentalist, every Christian, to some degree or another, accepts the Bible as truth, as the final authority.
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I am sure that someone may suggest that everyone knows that the word touch used in First Corinthians 7:1 means to have sexual intercourse. Perhaps. All I am trying to do with this post is to show how a Christian, armed with the belief that the Bible is the literal Word of God, could come to the conclusion that the Bible teaches that before marriage a man or a woman should not touch each other.
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As physical familiarity increases so does the risk of engaging in sexual intercourse. Every sexually-aware human being knows this.
How to Witness to an Atheist (brucegerencser.net)
Many atheists were Christians before they became atheists. In my case, I was a Christian for 50 years and I was an Evangelical pastor for 25 of those years. Granted, most atheists are not like me but many of them were raised in the Christian church and know what the Christian gospel is and what the Bible teaches.
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- People become atheists for a variety of reasons. Often there are emotional and cultural reasons why a person becomes an atheist but, at the end of the day, most people become an atheist for intellectual reasons.
- Most atheists are not atheists because they are angry with God, mad at the church, or hurt.
Be prepared to give evidence (proof) of the assertions you make. Saying the Bible says will not work since the atheist will likely not accept the authority of the Bible.
Growing Pains, Pt. 6 | “Evangelism” (thereformedwesleyan.com)
Christianity is a religion of return. No one comes to faith in isolation. Faith requires a body of faith to give it to others. If you had never seen a church, a Christian or a bible you never would have known about Jesus. You may have thought about God, for Paul said that the world testifies of God, but what we need can only come through revelation and that gift and responsibility has been given to the Church of Jesus. If there has been any benefit or change in our lives, then we are charged with a great responsibility, to give what has been given to us.
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Sharing your faith with someone else is like taking a vitamin. The more and the longer you share your faith the better you feel and the stronger your faith will become.
Pat Robertson Discovers Cherry Picking (patheos.com)
What happened to all that “Bible is the literal word of God” stuff? Since we already eat shellfish and work on the Sabbath and wear cotton-poly blends, can slavery be dismissed just as easily? Because some of that stuff is so antiquated it is not only irrelevant in the 21^stcentury but downright absurd.If Robertson has his way, we can let thousands of years of Bible-condoned slavery slide… but if someone dares question Leviticus (also in the Old Testament, let us not forget) and suggest that gay people should be allowed to legally marry, we are a nation full of sinners?! Really?!
In Why I am an atheist – Libby Anne (freethoughtblogs.com) you can see the problem when fundamentalist religious people teach their kids certain things which are not in accordance with reality and not in accordance what is really written and meant in the Holy Scriptures. Once they become a person who can make up his own mind and find archaeological and historical scientific works the fantasies they were taught to them fall to pieces.
“I was raised on the line between fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity. I was homeschooled, and nearly every subject was related to God and the Bible. History was His story and our science textbooks were all creationists.” … “And then I went to college, where my young earth creationist views were challenged. I responded by fighting back. I argued with both students and professors, sure that I had some sort of truth they were missing.”
For such person the confrontation with other thinkings clashes so that they do not see any more the background of the words of the Bible. They even go out to read about where the Bible came from, written by people who are against the Word of God and distorting its words. Doing that the most of them are going to think the Bible is a book full of errors and contradictions, while there are not such contradictions, though good that they start seeing it is also a very human book.
Often it is because certain religions take away the humanity, like they want to make of Jesus the God, instead of accepting that he was a man of flesh and blood.
When they really start reading the full Bible and get themselves loose of the doctrinal teachings they start to become being pulled in two, for the both loose their grip with the divine and are becoming incredibly fascinated with the very human development of the very human book that is the Bible.
Normally you would expect that they would come to a better understanding and that finally, the Bible would make complete and total sense. Than arrives the problem, that most of them want to hold fast on traditions and the dogmatic teachings in which they were brought up. In such an instance they feel being forced to choose between holding onto the divine and the beauty of total understanding, thinking that that would mean to put God and everything sacred away, instead of coming to the Truth and taking God for what He really is and taking Jesus for what he really is.
Gay for God? A Primer on How to Talk to Christians About the Gay Debate (theparish.typepad.com)
Until someone can give me a compelling reason—without citing Leviticus or Romans—that a class of American citizens are denied the same rights and privileges I enjoy, please just admit that the only real arguments you have are theological (i.e., god doesn’t like it) or aesthetic (i.e., it’s gross). Take away the Bible references, you got no argument save the one about old school conservatism and the wisdom of slow change.
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It’s a Constitutional issue, not a theological one. Our legislators aren’t paid to parse Scripture and debate hermeneutics.
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The Bible prohibits punching babies in Leviticus (it really doesn’t, but we’re pretending). 3000 years later, we learn there is a class of people who are born to punch babies, who actually enjoy punching babies. We call them pugilinfantos. They point out that when the Bible was written, the term didn’t even exist; therefore, the Bible can’t have their orientation in mind.
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an honest read of the OT yields the idea that homosexual acts were considered part of the moral prohibitions, as were all the sex acts listed. The question is whether or not you want Bronze Age people defining allowable sexual ethics.
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There is enough ambiguity in the Pauline corpus about words like arsenokoites and sodomite that liberal and evangelical scholars will continue to argue for decades. Again, the problem is that same sex issues made it into the NT; whether they are specifically about homosexual sex or economic exploitation or pederasty is one for the scholars. They don’t agree on it.
Why do people fall for “old” Christian Fundamentalism? (unbiasedtruth.net)
Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity(unbiasedtruth.net)
I am sending this to you to help those who have left fundamentalist churches that preach damnation, hatred, fear and “you’re not a Christian if you don’t believe like me.” Many have turned against the church and never came back, or just ran away from strict preachers, parents, teachers, etc. and never looked back to find a loving, caring church, group, club, etc. I like a church sign down the road from me that states:

“We Welcome Sinners and Backsliders Like Us.” You’ll find some good ideas from the summary and the reviews shared from others who have had a similar experience.
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The time is past, says Bruce Bawer, when denominational names and other traditional labels provided an accurate reflection of Christian America’s religious beliefs …
Government agency approves Christian fundamentalist exams as ‘comparable’ to A-Level(liberalconspiracy.org)
A Christian fundamentalist qualification which teaches that the theory of evolution has “no scientific basis” has been declared comparable to A-levels by UK Naric.

NARIC is the UK’s National Agency responsible for providing information and opinion on vocational, academic and professional qualifications from across the world.

The International Certificate of Christian Education (ICCE) uses a curriculum that was previously criticised for claiming the Loch Ness Monster “appears to be a plesiosaur,” and that the mythical beast is evidence against evolution.
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In a training booklet for ACE staff, future teachers are told, “It’s interesting that in the African primitive languages there is no word for wisdom. We in the West find that surprising, but you see, the idea of wisdom came through the Biblical channels of the Judaeo-Christian religion and filtered into all of western culture and society.”
How Many Christian Fundamentalists Are There in the UK?(leavingfundamentalism.wordpress.com)
Christian fundamentalism, also known as Fundamentalist Christianity, or Fundamentalism,^[1] arose out of British and American Protestantism in the late 19th century and early 20th century among evangelical Christians.^[2]
Loch Ness monster cited by US schools as evidence that evolution is myth(scotsman.com)
Pupils attending privately-run Christian schools in the southern state of Louisiana will learn from textbooks next year, which claim Scotland’s most famous mythological beast is a living creature.

Thousands of children are to receive publicly-funded vouchers enabling them to attend the schools – which follow a strict fundamentalist curriculum.

The Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) programme teaches controversial religious beliefs, aimed at disproving evolution and proving creationism.
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!!!

Mr Wilson believes that such fundamentalist Christian teaching is going on in at least 13 American states.

He added: “There’s a lot of public funding going to private schools, probably around 200,000 pupils are receiving this education.

“The majority of parents now home schooling their kids are Christian fundamentalists too. I don’t believe they should be publicly funded, I don’t believe the schools who use these texts should be publicly funded.” !!!
In Will Smith Hits Back at Ex-: “Miss Holy Roller”(blackwriteandread.wordpress.com) you can see to which problems it comes when fundamentalism gets to one person in a family.
“ Will goes on to say that it is “fundamental Christians” like her who cause others to fall by the wayside … killing, denying, cheating, lying, stealing, depriving, living selfish lives, committing atrocious acts and heinous crimes in the name of their “god” (the ones listed before) and then coming back to rein people into their world of self-righteousness with a Bible that was used by Europe to put people in slave chains; and to destroy, kill, and steal from others.”
How We’ve Infuriated Centuries of People(str.typepad.com)
It should come as no surprise that the individuals who abide by fundamentalist Christian and radical Islamic doctrines would be the first to cry out that they are being persecuted when their dangerous, damaging and disingenuous beliefs come under attack. Most of these people lack the maturity and intelligence to act in a socially acceptable manner. Many of them are sociopaths and quite a good number of them are psychopaths. All of them are clearly delusional….

Bigotry, discrimination, hatred, coercion, terrorism, slavery, misogyny and everything else that is part and parcel of fundamental Christianity and radical Islam should not be tolerated….
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The truth is, what has infuriated people about Christians throughout the centuries is that they can’t get us to conform to them. From Shadrach, to Peter, to Richard Wurmbrand, no law, threat or torture can turn true Christians from loving and serving God or affirming what we know to be true.
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it is often characteristic of humans to be most emphatically hostile to things that they themselves most deeply and secretly are guilty of; I wonder how many of the most hostile anti-theists are trying to wipe out god by denying him so strongly.
The Egalitarian and Complementarian Divide (5) (allisonquient.wordpress.com)
Sacred and secular cultures have had massive impacts on Evangelicals, and as a result, have influenced the gender debate. It is common to hear how much secular culture and liberalism have influenced Egalitarianism or how Egalitarianism will inevitably lead Evangelicals down the path to liberalism or even the acceptance of homosexuality. Massive amounts of effort has been dedicated towards making this alleged reality known and warning the faithful of the danger of falling down the slippery slope.
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We ought not to trivialize the issue by substituting rhetoric for substance. We ought not to marginalize the issue by obscuring the clarity of Scripture.
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Many Complementarians believe Egalitarians have read back into Scripture what is at heart a secular ideology, even if Egalitarians do this inadvertently.
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What is overlooked or underemphasized is the commonality between Egalitarians and Complementarians when it comes to the authority of Scripture and how Egalitarians are also influenced by culture in much the same way Complementarians are. In fact, when the Evangelical Woman’s Caucus became polarized between the liberal and conservative Christians over accepting a homosexual lifestyle, those who were liaisons to the Evangelical world found they could not in good conscience stay in their current organization.
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In the article discussed earlier he mentioned that those in the Episcopal church did not feel the need to exit their denomination when a woman was made a Bishop in 1989 and so “advocates of homosexual ordination were not worried about a split in the church.” When a compromise followed just allowing individual churches to bless homosexual unions or not, Grudem wounders “As I am writing this chapter, it remains to be seen whether conservatives will finally leave the denomination.”
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History serves as reminded that Evangelicals are heavily influenced by culture whether it is secular, liberal or our own subculture. For better or worse, we have been influenced to our detriment and are being influenced now. When it comes to the gender debate, fears of a liberal or secular takeover have colored and shaped how Egalitarians are perceived and biased the debate in the opposite direction even though it is unwarranted.

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Manifests for believers #5 Christian Union

Posted on February 14, 2012. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Christendom and Christianity, Churchplanning, Ecclesia, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua, Meeting, Preaching | Tags: Believer, Church community, Denomination, disunion, Division, False Teachings, Followers of Christ, Manifest, Protestantism, Roman Catholic Church, Union, Unity, Will of God, Worshipping |

In Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant we saw that what was meant as signal, a call to seek together how our church also today could bring over credibly the ‘good news’ of and over Jesus, has now grown out to a severe debate over how the Catholic Church can, may or must be develop and if it may or may not or must adapt to the time.

These signatories of the manifesto agree that it not simple to face those differences which come to light now. The differences that came onto the surface may have lingered already for many years, though those in charge of the Belgian Church did not want to face them. It will not be easy to go about with the differences on a sober and evangelic manner. Plurality becomes quick disunion. That makes it so difficult in our chaotic world to hold in front the vision of someone else, and to experience it full of joy.

“Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptised into {Or in; also in verse 15} the name of Paul?” (1 Corinthians 1:13 NIV) asked Paul already at the torn municipality of Corinth.

All ought to yield the courage with each other over these fundamentally different views, to come in dialogue. With an open mind and without fear for mutual questioning.

The several manifests circulating could give an indication of we who want to call our selves Christian should be more eager to become united with all those who accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. In his death we should certainly be united with him because that is the prospect we are also looking for in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. But we also should not be enslaved to the world, nor to worldly traditions and human dogmas. In the New Testament we can find God giving direction to the apostles how to cope with the difference of living of the heathen becoming a follower of Christ and the Jew following Christ as well. Several Jewish Laws became redundant and why should we as human people than restrict others with newly imposed rules, brought forward by human people at certain times.

For one who has died has been set free from sin, but is also liberated from this world. There is no need for extra rules to become accepted in the Kingdom of God, because if we have died with Christ, we are assured that we will also live with him.

Considering ourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus we should accept and respect all others who have also chosen to follow Christ Jesus. As such taking harsh actions and using not appropriate ‘dirty’ words to other followers of Christ is contrary the Law of Christ, the man of peace, to bring arguments a step further and letting them grow to quarrels. We should not be wranglers but bringers of peace and taking care that no sin would reign in our mortal body, to make us obey its passions.

When we look at Christendom we see many deviations. History, arguments, differences in ideas how to do things, made that we do have different denominations. And in each denomination we do encounter also different characters, which are as different as the different parts which make up our body. Jesus had learned his apostles that not one is better or higher placed than the other and that we all should help each other to grow in the community of believers. therefore we should not present our members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present ourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and our members to God as instruments for righteousness.

: Choosing for unity

It may be strange that the first call for unity has been started off by the Pentecostals who often oppose so many times other believers and often undertake many aggressive actions against non-Trintiarians, like us.

In the year 2007 the Pinksterbeweging or Pentecostal Movement in the Netherlands celebrated her hundred birthday existence. On the century celebration in the Olympic Stadium, Bass Plaisier, then scriba of the Protestant Church the Netherlands, said: ‘What has lately there been spoken with contempt over you sometimes. There have been talks over you as if you no longer were spiritually healthily. The enthusiastic expressions of the joy of the belief, the signs of the Holy Spirit in speaking in tongues, prophecy and cure, sometimes being labelled as a work of the wicked person. What a dedain, what a contempt. As if emotion be part of a primitive form of beliefs. The same as the Muslims now, you were despised by enlightenment thinkers and found backward. Brothers and sisters, I want to say to you, that I feel ashamed about this. As we may not despise each other’s deepest belief choices – for such attitude we need pardon.’

From that time some protestants wanted to choose for (more) unity because Christ is not divided. Christ has the walls broken that hold men separated. As Christ has broken walls , we may not set them up . They choose for unity because Christ had prayed: ‘So that they are one ‘ (John 17:22).

The “Municipality of Jesus Christ” or Community of Christ has to encounter a powerful enemy. This enemy is the “god of this world”. We must not underestimate him then. The world with her many ideas tries to attire the people and lure them in its trap.

Today we see that men many live on their feelings, also when it concerns belief. They like to sit within a church or community where they can find themselves at ease. Often they prefer not to become too much involved. The easiest for them is that everything passes by and that they can be onlookers. Or being in a circle of nice men and women, feel themselves at home. That feels good! For their feeling God’s person is present!

We can wonder if they do understand the real meaning of having to accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted them, in order to bring praise to God? (Romans 15:7 )

We should accept those believers who are not the same as us and do perhaps not believe all the same things as we do. As followers of Christ we should be all brothers and sisters in Christ, though we may have different and contradicting habits, characters, do mistakes, have deviant understandings and behaviours. As Christ has accepted you and us with all your and our weaknesses, mistakes, deviations and even sins we also should accept others.

If we really once went deeply to realize, who and what we were when Christ accepted us – what a miserable men we were by nature in ourselves, and how big Gods grace is that He really has accepted us – then we will also be more generous and more permissively to our opposite and fellow believers.

The Last Supper of Jesus Christ

In addition the public of the parish churches remain at home and the dioceses have to contend with a lack of ministers. The shortage of Catholic priests has put a big burden on the Flemish priests, who mostly got a considerable age, and on the parishes. While those really interested in the well-being of the Roman Catholic Church brought their call in the manifesto “Believers take the word” “Gelovigen nemen het woord” the conservatives really reacted very harsh, even calling their fellow Catholics heretics.

Matter is that in Belgium the Roman Catholic Church can really do with some reform. This should not mean that they do have to take a choice between radical preservation and radical change. Both extremes naturally can, but go past to the fact that there are several opportunities .

In the broad stream in the middle of of the spectrum between ‘radical stasis’ and ‘radical exchange office’ (to use the words of the Dutch architect Brake Koolhaas) a fan of possibilities can be found. The congregation has to think how many church-buildings it still wants to keep to bring worship services and how they can make as much use of those existing buildings. Then they have to look how they can bring interesting church-services which can attract more people. More work has to be made to proclaim the Word of God instead a narrow view of an institution. Though some Flemish organisations do find that Flanders has to do everything for Christ and Christ has to go for Flanders, having the Catholic Church keeping in the traditional footsteps of the Vatican.

Those conservative Catholics do seem to be blind to the ‘annus horribilis’ for the Flemish church last year. It began with the discharge because of child abuse of the bishop of Bruges. After the ecclesiastic call to make sexual abuse known, followed a painful abuse story in the press and a shower of ‘old’ complaints by the commission-Adriaenssens, plus a rush of conservatives who saw in it all an attack against the Holy Church of Rome.

A first observed petition was that ‘for a credible and liberating church’: Manifest ‘voor een geloofwaardige en bevrijdende kerk’. These got also resistance of the conservative Roman Catholics that asked not to go into the contestation against the traditional belief proclamation which according the conservatives is undermining of the papal authority. The compilers had the present church crisis in mind. It was the first signal, followed by the same call in “Believers take the word” or manifest “Gelovigen nemen het woord”, to respect those lonely believers in church, who wanted to give their zest or sole for the church in which they believed to be a catholic institution.

Both longed for a credible and liberating church, and that it is about time to come to bundle the powers. The first petition handed over on Christmas Eve 2010 had 6.800 signatories while the second one handed over to the Flemish bishops last February the eight got 8235. In both we can find good intentions, though several conservative Catholics do not want to see that. Their intention was to bring and to ask for more encouragement: so many people do want an evangelic inspired church community, a more authentic church. Also they would love to see more exhortation: work of the promised think thank around power in the church community.

Catholic Flanders really got a shower of manifests over them. More recent there were petitions ‘against the secular dictatorship’ with so 3,000 signatures, against the abstraction at the service of the Brussels Saint-Kathelijnekerk with more than 6,100 signatories and on the manifesto “Believers take the word” followed the counteraction “Believers accept the word” with a 200 signatories and “Unbelievers take the word’ or “[On]gelovigen nemen het woord” . Also in the Netherlands, single manifestos could not stay away. *

Inscription with the Name of God: Jehovah in de Roman Catholic Church Saint-Fiacre in Dison, Belgium

Those who want to call themselves Christian should know that it means to be a follower of Christ Jesus (Jeshua), the son of God, born in Bethlehem and died in Jerusalem. It was a man begotten, born in a special way, being send from his Father in heaven, Jehovah the only one God.

Those who do want to follow Christ should be aware that Jesus gave his teachings based on the Law of God, his Father. He wanted that we listen to his Father and do what He requires from us. In the Old Testament we are given Laws or Commandments. There was an old Covenant but with Christ Jesus we did receive a new Covenant, but that does not mean that we should ignore the Old Testament Teachings. Also Jesus kept to the Torah.

Jesus also warned us to be careful not to follow the will of men but the Will of God. And that is what we should carry in our hearts and should try to do. God did not give any dogma‘s. Those were given by human institutions. We should be aware that we should not be members of a Church of men, but of a Church of Christ as some want to call it, or better of a Church of God.

We should be aware that in a church that doesn’t follow Christ’s doctrine correctly, the whole church and congregation is to some degree accountable. We were ordered to justify, educate and encourage each other. All people in a community should try to make the best for the community and should help each other to stay on the right path.

All members in a church community should not only help in the parish community but should keep an eye on the teachings as well. In case wrong teaching are brought in they should bring this to attention of everybody. In case members of a church do come into a situation where wrong teachings take the overhand they should leave that person after they did everything to bring him or her to her senses. Therefore every Christian has the task to do his or her best to point out to the church the problems and attempt to resolve them. If this is not possible, those who prefer to follow the teachings of the Bible instead of the teachings of men, should look for other people who really want to study the Word of God seriously and want to follow That Guide.

Every person wanting to call himself Christian should keep to the teachings of Jesus, who brought the Words of his Father, and should find a church that does follow the teachings of Jesus correctly.

Wrong doctrine is a serious concern. Consider the following passages:

1 Tim 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

1 Tim 6:3-5
If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, (4) he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, (5) and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

2 Tim 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, (4) and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Rev 18:4-5
Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; (5) for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

There is no specific office of “minister” or “pastor” mentioned in the Bible and in the first churches the people came together to read and discuss the Word of God together. Ministers, priests or clerical celibacy are ‘modern’ human inventions. The original church leaders were “elders” or “overseers”. These were always male as indicated in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:7-9. Also, in 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul says: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man”. But women also had their tasks in the ecclesia and helped to proclaim the Word of God. They were also responsible for spreading the believe in Christ, and therefore we may not diminish their function. Every lay person as such can do something in the service. We should come together regularly, men, women and children and meet in unity as brothers and sisters in Christ.

In case you want to learn more how to make church or how to understand the Biblical teachings you can always ask some serious Bible Student to help you. Do not hesitate to contact a Christadelphian group in you neighbourhood, and ask them for a Bible Study.

* Een Manifest voor Gelovigen + Manifest Gelovigen nemen het woord + Manifest: [On-]Gelovigen nemen het woord + Gelovigen aanvaarden het Woord naar aanleiding van de petitie “(on)gelovigen nemen het woord” + Gelovigen ‘nemen’ het woord niet… Gelovigen ‘AANVAARDEN’ het Woord
+ Is de ketterse petitie ‘Gelovigen nemen het woord’ een complot van CD&V en NVA??? + Manifest tot protestantse kerk + Manifestanten Protestant of Katholiek

Petitie 24com: Gelovigen aanvaarden het Woord + Voor een Katholiek Vlaanderen! AVVVVK

Petitie: “Voor een geloofwaardige en bevrijdende kerk” = anti-katholiek en anti-clericaal
De eenheid van de Kerk komt tot uiting in het herderschap van de bisschop van Rome, de Paus, over de gehele Kerk. Hij is immers de opvolger van Petrus tot wie Christus had gezegd: ‘Gij zijt Petrus en op deze steenrots zal Ik mijn Kerk bouwen’ (Mt 16,18). En bij Johannes horen Jezus tot Petrus zeggen: ‘Weid mijn lammeren, hoed mijn schapen’ (Joh 19, 16-17).
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De katholiciteit of universaliteit van de Kerk houdt niet alleen in dat het geloof van de Kerk overal verspreid is, maar betekent vooral dat men overal hetzelfde geloof aantreft. Of het nu de oude kerken van Europa zijn, of de jonge kerken in de ontwikelingslanden, overal treft met één en hetzelfde katholieke geloof aan. En dat is een soort garantiebewijs: als ik merk dat mijn geloof overeenstemt met het geloof van de wereldkerk, dan kan ik er van op aan dat ik me op het juiste spoor bevindt en het rechte geloof aanhang.

Petitie ‘Voor een geloofwaardige en bevrijdende kerk’
Vele leden en symphatisanten van Pax Christi Vlaanderen vinden in de persoon van Jezus van Nazareth kracht en inspiratie. De problemen en de schandalen die de voorbije maanden in de katholieke kerk aan het licht kwamen, leiden vaak tot ontmoediging bij velen die zich inzetten in de geloofsgemeenschap of van hen die er lid van zijn. Maar dat hoeft niet zo te blijven.

Tertio Debat: Gelovigen nemen het woord

Ketterlijst met 8200+ katholieken op internet gezet
De Vlaamse ketterlijst is een reactie op de petitie ‘Gelovigen nemen het woord’ van vernieuwingsgezinde katholieken in Vlaanderen. De lijst is een resultaat van ‘een groep verontwaardigde Rooms-Katholieke vliegenmeppers, strijdend tegen modernistische vliegen in de Rooms-Katholieke Kerk’.

Brief van Anne Vandenhoeck aan de kerstster
Brief aan de luisteraars van het Braambos, uitgezonden in het Braambos, Radio 1 op 12 december 2010
Anne Vandenhoeck superviseert aan het Academisch Centrum voor Praktische Theologie in Leuven en ze is stafmedewerker van het vicariaat Caritas in Brugge. Tot eind juni heeft ze d’er nog een benoeming bij. Die van Braambos-briefschrijver.

Bedenking ten aanzien van de petitie “Gelovigen nemen het woord”
In onze parochie en omliggende waren er priesters en gelovigen die meenden ‘met de tijd te moeten meegaan’ en zo sijpelde druppelsgewijs het vergift binnen in al die parochies. Mensen haakten af. Parochieteams werden gevormd en catechisten die niet in hun pas liepen werden buitengewerkt. (zij gaven ‘oubollige catechese’, waren ‘extreem rechts’(?) en ook ‘fundamentalist’…!)

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Related articles in Dutch: Aanverwante artikelen:

Manifests for believers #1 Sex abuse setting fire to the powder (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Manifests for believers #2 Changing celibacy requirement (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Manifests for believers #4 Eucharist (christadelphians.wordpress.com)

1 Corinthians 1-3 (mybiblereadingplan.wordpress.com)
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
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Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
Galatians 2:11-21 (markallenwhite.wordpress.com)
Is your freedom in Christ threatened by your fear of man?
Sanctified in Christ Jesus (justificationbygrace.com)
we are sanctified through Christ Jesus, because it is his blood and the water which flowed from his side in which the Spirit washes our heart from the defilement and propensity of sin. It is said of our Lord, —“Christ also loved the Church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious Church, not having spot, or wrinkle or any such thing.”
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Christ shall put an end to all our inbred sins, and through him we shall mount to heaven perfect even as our Father which is in heaven is perfect.
We Are Ambassador’s for Christ Jesus (codybateman.org)

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Manifests for believers #4 Eucharist

Posted on February 11, 2012. Filed under: Breaking of the Bread, Christendom and Christianity, Feesten, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua, News and Politics | Tags: Body of Christ, bread and wine, Catholic, Catholic Church, Celibacy, Christ, Council of Trent, Desecration of the host, Eucharist, God Son, holy communion, Jesus, Lord's Supper, Manifest, Pope Innocent III, Roman Catholic Church, Sacramentarians, Transubstantiation, Women in Church |

In the previous article Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant we pointed already at the idea of the opponents of the Manifest for believers Manifest Gelovigen nemen het woord (Religiuously or Believers take the word)who do find that a lay men can not bring a sermon and also should not be allowed to say the sacred words of the consecration, nor hand out the bread and wine at the Holy Communion!” The conservative Catholics say. Also the “gegraai” or the groping in the tabernacle (the goblet), that we see now always more, is a real plague! “Women must remain with their hands from the tabernacle!” Asking that women should be able to become priests is something they do not believe the writers of the manifest are really asking. Though in the manifest Gelovigen nemen het woord is written: “We plead in favour that within the shortest time as well married men as women shall be permitted the priest office. We, religious, need them now very badly.

A delegation of the study Group Kerkenwerk (Churchwork) on Thursday 9 February, in Malines (Mechelen) handed over the Manifesto “Religiously take the word” to the Flemish bishops and has given them the list of the names of the signatories.

The Manifesto, that is a call at the Flemish bishops to break through the impasse, in which the Churches in Flanders is been found, through reformation, is endorsed by 8235 religiously, mainly via the internet, some also written.

Emmanuel Van Lierde has the impression that petitions, it appears to be well a new trend in the Flemish church. A first observed petition was that ‘for a credible and liberating church’. Ends 2010 signed 6,800 religiously that signal to encouragement in full peadofilicrisis. More recent there were petitions ‘against the secular dictatorship’ with about 3,000 signatures, against the abstraction of the service of the Brussels Saint-Kathelijnekerk with more than 6,100 signatories and on the manifesto Religious take the word followed the counter action Religious accept the word with a 200 signatories.

According to the study Group Kerkenwerk the plea to let married men and women come into the priest office, has to be seen in the frame to make it possible to have the Church grow in these difficult times in which we do need more diversification in which creatively should be sought to new roads round the multiplicity of talents and to utilize better the engagement of many religious people.

Dr. Gregory S. Neal, UM Elder, presides at the...

That some of the signing members of the manifest also do not believe in transubstantiation, meaning that the piece of bread given to the believers, is really the body of Christ, is pure heresy and apostasy according the opponents. For the conservatives it is clear that men as Dekimpe praise no longer the transubstantiation! They do forget that Pope Innocent III had recognized (1215) the doctrine of transubstantiation, which resulted in the public and general worship of the consecrated host. The doctrine, first elaborated by theologians in the 13th century, was incorporated into documents of the Council of Trent. In the mid-20th century, some Roman Catholic theologians interpreted it as referring to a change of meaning rather than a change of substance, but in 1965 Paul VI called for the retention of the original dogma. According to the conservative Catholics the writers of the manifest ignore the fact of the Real Presence, which is, indeed, the central dogma every Catholic should hold on.

Although the manna, a type of the Eucharist, was indeed eaten with the mouth, it could not, being a transitory food, ward off death. The second food, that offered by the Heavenly Father, is the bread of heaven, which He dispenses hic et nunc to the Jews for their spiritual nourishment, inasmuch as by reason of the Incarnation He holds up His Son to them as the object of their faith. If, however, the third kind of food, which Christ Himself promises to give only at a future time, is a new refection, differing from the last-named food of faith, it can be none other than His true Flesh and Blood, to be really eaten and drunk in Holy Communion. This is why Christ was so ready to use the realistic expression “to chew” (John 6:54, 56, 58: trogein) when speaking of this, His Bread of Life, in addition to the phrase, “to eat” (John 6:51, 53: phagein).*

“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live for ever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live for ever.”” (John 6:51-58 NIV)

Idolatry of the Blessed Sacrament or a Holy Host as the Body of Christ

Catholics do believe that Jesus is God who gives his blood and body daily to those members of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, the highest form of civilization, who come to His table. Only believers liberated from their sins by the confession are allowed to take this manlike god in their mouth but may not chew on him, because mastication of God would be a big sin. Here we can see again an other pagan idolatry and Christian image-worship. The host has lost the symbol of the bread being a representation of the ‘Bread of Life’. The Catholics take it to be really the Holy sacred body of God, and in many churches you can find relic-worship of this consecrated host being put in golden receptacles, called the monstrance. In lots of Roman Catholic Churches it is exposed for the adoration of the people.

In older times we did find already reactions against this adoration of a piece of bread.

As late as 1820 a great jubilee was celebrated at Brabant in commemoration of the desecration of the host at Enghien in 1370. This festival lasted eight days, during which sixteen hosts studded with diamonds were borne in solemn procession through the streets. Fifty years later (1870), while a committee and the clergy of Brussels were making preparations for this ancient festival, an article appeared in the “Revue Belgique,” entitled “Le Jubilé d’un Faux Miracle,” etc., which proved by the original sources that, although three Jews had been burned in 1370 on the charge of having stolen a host, “pro sacramentis punice et furtive captis,” the original document had been changed sixty-five years later to read “pro sacramento puncto et furtive accepto,” in order to fabricate an accusation of desecration of the host. Other falsifications being discovered in the document, Pope Pius IX felt obliged to stop the festival. In the Church of Sainte-Gudule, Brussels, are several Gobelin tapestries containing representations of the supposed desecration of the host in 1370.**

The refutation of the so-called Sacramentarians, a name given by Luther to those who opposed the Real Presence, evinces as clearly the impossibility of a figurative meaning. Once the manifest literal sense is abandoned, occasion is given to interminable controversies about the meaning of an enigma which Christ supposedly offered His followers for solution. *

Only ordained people who abstain from sex can bless the bread of the Lord’s Supper and say “This is my body” after which they may hand out the body of Christ, god the son, the conservative Catholics say. Asking to allow women to be able to say this is degrading the Holy Sacrament and blasphemy.(***)

The writers of the Manifest not speaking of the wine miraculously becoming the blood of Christ and the bread miraculously becoming the body of Christ seem to offend many.

But Jesus does speak of the symbology of our taking the wine and the bread as representing our unity with one another and with us being involved with the sacrifice of Christ. As Jesus said in Matthew 10:38 “whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me” and Paul in Romans 6:5-13

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. (6) We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. (7) For one who has died has been set free from sin. (8) Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. (9) We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. (10) For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. (11) So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. (12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. (13) Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

*Proof from Scripture – The real presence as a fact > The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

**Defiling the host or sacred wafer of the mass: desecration of host

(***) God can not die, but Jesus, being a man could die but only once. A “re-sacrifice” of Jesus Christ for our sins, or a “re-offering / re-presentation” of His sacrifice is not necessary. Scripture says, that Jesus died “once for all” and does not need to be sacrificed again (Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18). Hebrews 7:27 declares, “Unlike the other high priests, He (Jesus) does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when He offered Himself.” The bread and the wine are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus, but are not a representation of God nor His body or his blood (Because God is a ghost and has no body or blood as human beings.) The bread Jesus was breaking represented what he was going to do. The same for the wine he gave them – his blood hadn’t yet been shed, but the wine represented the blood that would be shed. These words were not meant to be taken in a literal sense then, nor are they now.

Preceding article: Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant

To be continued: Manifests for believers #5 Christian Union

Please do find to read:

Is Jesus Christ actually present in the bread and wine of the Eucharist/communion?
The Lord’s supper is done both to help Christians remember what Jesus has done, and also to proclaim what Jesus has done (‘For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes’: 1 Cor. 11:26).

What is Holy Communion? Why is it necessary to a Christian’s life?Children ate the OT passover so why not NT bread and wine?Are the bread and wine just symbols, or are they really Jesus flesh and blood?Why did Jesus say he wouldn’t drink wine again until the kingdom when he ate and drank other things? (Mark 14:25)Why wasn’t the lying prophet killed? (1 Kings 13)

What is transubstantiation?

Who Can Receive Communion? according Catholics

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Manifests for believers #1 Sex abuse setting fire to the powder (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Manifests for believers #2 Changing celibacy requirement (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Een Manifest voor Gelovigen (marcusampe.wordpress.com)
Manifest tot protestantse kerk | Marcus’ s Space (marcusampe.wordpress.com)
Manifestanten Protestant of Katholiek | Marcus’ s Space (marcusampe.wordpress.com)
Touch Jesus and be healed through faith (cinhosa.wordpress.com)
During The Eucharist, The Church teaches that the host and wine are consecrated by the priest. After the consecration, they become the body and blood of Jesus Christ through transubstantiation. So that Catholics (and other Christian denominations) believe that upon receipt the Blessed Sacrament, we touch Jesus – literally.
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For additional reading, the Real presence of Christ in the Eucharist contains an overview of various Christian denominations and their belief (or not) in transubstantiation. The Catholic Encyclopedia has a reference article for additional information.
Audio for Eucharist (lettersonorthodoxy.wordpress.com)
Here’s some additional audio resources regarding the Eucharist
Eucharist : Communion or Discrimination?? (catholicakauniversal.wordpress.com)
Eucharist has been a controversial topic, specially in a multicultural and multi-religious continent like Asia.
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In the Hindu temple they offer the devotees Prasad a food offering made to a god and then shared among the people, to both Hindus and non-Hindus.
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we can Evangelize better if we understood the real concept of the Eucharist that Christ explained to us. This is something that has to be considered instead of arguing whether we should receive communion directly on hand or tongue. It would be more meaningful if we call everyone for a fellowship, a real communion without discriminating others with the sentence announced during the mass “Non-Christians are not allowed to receive Communion!” And I hope that they will dawn someday Till then, Eucharist is only for the Baptized Christians!
The Holy Eucharist – The Bread of Life (catholicsview.wordpress.com)
The mysticism of the Christian faith has been eaten away by society. Despite miracles being recorded throughout history, as people of God we have lost faith in them. The mystery of transubstantiation (bread and wine becoming the body and blood of Jesus) is one of these miracles that occur at each Mass across the world. Non-catholic churches that used to believe in the Eucharist have gone from believing in transubstantiation to, “If you think it’s real for you, then it is real” and “it is only a symbol” in order to conform to societies’ ideals and beliefs.
Contraception, Spilling One’s “Seed” and the Obama Health Care Ruling (woodgatesview.com)
Ahh Catholicism. What fond memories I have about my first Communion, Confirmation, serving my first Mass as an alter boy and best of all, my awareness of sin. Without sin in our lives there is chaos. There can be no understanding for our purpose on earth and what lies in store for us afterwards without a sense of our sinful life.
Catechistic Introduction (boyd41.wordpress.com)
Catechistic Notes includes posts on Christian Faith and Worship. These posts comprise paraphases, quotes, references, and personal impressions from several catechistic documents.
A Bunch of Ignorance and a Mammoth of Delusion (esoriano.wordpress.com)
If what is in the cup is the real blood of Jesus, how can the mass be an unbloody sacrifice? If what is in the cup is only symbolic blood, it is also symbolically bloody, doesn’t it follow?
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Praying and praising His name is symbolic of the incense which is pure sacrifice that will reach the throne of the Almighty! It is not something material, for then, not everyone would have access to it. It is not something readily found in those who prefer to delude themselves by way of ascribing spiritual presence to bread and wine that they call Christ’s body and blood – which they offer again and again.

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Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant

Posted on February 8, 2012. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Breaking of the Bread, Christendom and Christianity, Churchplanning, Religion, Witnessing | Tags: Belgium, Celibacy, Council of Trent, Disaffiliation, disunion, Eucharist, Flanders, Heresy, Manifest, Mass, Mass (liturgy), Ordination, Othodoxy, Priesthood, Roman Catholic Church, Sacrament, The Lord’s Supper, Transubstantiation, Women in Church |

In 2007 there appeared already a Manifest for the believers in the Low Countries. It was started by people from the Protestant church of the Netherlands (PKN = Protestantse Kerk Nederland) and at the turn of the year the Flemish Catholic priests launched a Manifest for believers Manifest “Gelovigen nemen het woord”, “Believers take the word”. Both the manifests wanted to take care that their church community would be growing and be a union of believers.

Both manifests with a new one this month are concerned by the falling church-membership and the loss of believers. The first manifest: Manifest ‘Wij kiezen voor eenheid’ or ‘We choose for unity’ consecrated on the union we would like to see between all those who call themselves Christian. For the writers of the manifest it does not go up that there is so much enormous disunion in the churches in the Dutch-language religiously of the Beneluxand therefore they want to call the believers to go for a joint slogan: ‘We choose for unity’.

Their “Manifesto for unity” got not such an attention from the public and did not get so known. The manifesto for believers Manifest “Gelovigen nemen het woord” presented to the Belgian belief community at the turn of the year hit like a bomb. It got the approval from 8233 religiously but had probably more counter parts. A lot of Roman Catholics launched a counter attack. In the month January the reaction was so violently that the initiators against the end of the month, or begin this month took away their website with further definitions. (The manifesto itself can still be found.)

Interior of a Flemish Church - first half of 17th century Pieter Neefs (1609–1656)

The intentions of the Manifesto for religiously had been meant honourably to have the Roman Catholics embrace their Catholic Church in Flanders. The writers of the manifesto are well disposed towards the Roman Catholic Churchand do not want to bear it ill feelings but life in the brewery appeared when they outed their grievances and presented their proposals to get some more life in church again.

Quickly they were compared to unbelieving and their ideas as “disbelievingly” and they became reproached to have taken over the protestant language and by doing so already committed treachery to the Roman Holy Catholic Church.

By the religious that followed masses by the undertakers of the manifest now even more confusion crept in and created despair. That enthusiast priests that called up the ordinary man in the street to come to work together building up the church for today and for the future felt now abused and contemplated through the Catholic establishment as “Heretical “.

Although we may know we that heresy or heterodoxy points to a deliberate and intentional deviation of what in a particular belief community or belief or church community is considered as being part of their fundamental belief teachings and laws. As it is also an accusation levied against members of another group which has beliefs which conflict with those of the accusers, we can see certain conflicts came up in the debate, but which should not be in contrast to the Roman Catholic Law.

The signatories of the “Manifesto for believers” had certainly no intentions at all to let an other separation follow the already awful thinned out group of religious men in the small country Belgium. The sex-scandals in the Roman Catholic Church did already too much damage. The clergy as well as the believers needed the commotion like they needed a hole in the head. They want to adhere to the Catholic teachings but would prefer to go back to the first century church. They do think they have enough teachings provided in the Holy Bible so that men do not need to bind others to man made teachings or to restrict others by their own teachings. They just wanted to go back to the teachings which were already part of the church life in early centuries. They also found that the church had to put away certain teachings which where brought into existence for all sorts of reasons, of which some were financial (as protecting the church property).

We are also not quite sure that the signatories could be charged with Apostasy because their action should not be considered as ‘a defection or revolt’, and they do not want to get a disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by any person. The debate on the function of the woman in church has been a difficult point for many years already in the Roman Catholic Church. Rudolf Bultmann and the “character” of debates over ordination of women and gay priests brought forward many accusations of heresy in the past and again today.

Writing amidst the turbulence of the political, monetary, clergy paedophile abuse sex-scandals, and church population crisis, the writers of the Flemish manifest did not want to counter the high-handed or stubborn traditionalist and conservative Catholics. They saw how the Church was loosing souls and wanted to save them and to get people back into the church.

The same as smoking is harmful for your health, the Rooms Katholieke Vliegenmeppers (The Roman Catholic Flyswatters) do find that the priests who wrote and signed the Manifest for believers are as harmful for the people souls welfare. They do call the believers not to receive the Holy Sacraments of these priests and not to go to partake their Holy Mass. They, with many others, do find that those priests who call for a change in the Roman Catholic Church, are heretics and unworthily to do the Mass or ‘ Misoffer’, the “Sacrifice of the Mass”.

According Katholieke Actie Vlaanderen (Catholic Action Flanders) there has come a schism in the Belgian Catholic Church. (See: Ketters in Vlaanderen = Heretics in Flanders) The accusation levied against those Catholic priests who are concerned about the decline of the Roman Catholic Church is somewhat strange. First of all those makers of the manifest do everything to keep the Roman Catholic Church on its feet in those turbulent times. They want the best for the survival of the Catholic Church in Belgium.

They do not want to undermine accepted morality and cause tangible evils, damnation, or other punishment. Contrary they are against the silent hierarchical Roman Church, who wants to do a cover-up operation. They do not want to sweep the many child sex abuses under the carpet. They want to make an end to the possible cause of so much damage. Therefore they ask that priests could get a normal sexual life, have a wife and children.

The Roman Catholic Church holds Protestantism as espousing numerous heresies, while some Protestants retrospectively consider Roman Catholicism the “Great Apostasy“.

Today several people do find the makers of the ‘Manifest for believers’ to be priests who use the terminology and ideas of protestants, and therefore should be called protestants and not Catholics any more.

The ordination of a servant of God - Bishop Pates' Ordination.

The stressing and enlargement of the role of the laity is being considered one of the main points of protestantism. For the Roman Catholics Ordination is sacred and comprehends that the person who is following the ‘call of God’ becomes consecrated (set apart for the administration of various religious rites) in which he acts as the bride of Christ. Being ‘married’ to Christ he should not have any other woman and abstain from any form of sex or sexual contact, because he has given his full life and body to the Lord. Calling for an ordination of women is desacralising the priesthood, opponents say. For the conservative Roman Catholics the role of the priest and servant of God giving out the sacraments should remain the role that an ordained male person has to fulfil.

For the Roman Catholics who shout “everything for Flanders and Flanders for Christ” a layman perhaps could ‘lead’ administratively a parish, but would not be a shepherd. For them the manifestos confuse or mix lay and clergyman with each other. The language of the manifest, using words like “voorgaan” ‘precede in the Sunday celebrations’ or conduct the services and “liturgisch voorganger” ‘liturgical minister’ is protestant talk and not worthy of a Roman Catholic. For the conservatives words as ‘liturgical leader/pastor/minister’ for a priest is not recognising the sacramental holiness of that servant of God. Several Catholics question what those notions mean. For the conservatives a ‘Sunday celebration’ is not Mass per se a Holy Mass or Eucharistic Offering!

The matter brought forward by the Flemish manifesto that not only ordained people who abstain from sex can bless the bread of the Lord’s Supper and say “This is my body” after which they may hand out the symbol of Christ his Body and Sacrifice is for the conservative Catholics also degrading the Holy Sacrament and blasphemy. *

Their call also to become all, men and women, workers in Christ, is considered an awful protestant idea.

From the homily of Pope Bendict XVI (11 June 2010): “The Church too must use the shepherd’s rod, the rod with which he protects the faith against those who falsify it, against currents which lead the flock astray. The use of the rod can actually be a service of love. Today we can see that it has nothing to do with love when conduct unworthy of the priestly life is tolerated. Nor does it have to do with love if heresy is allowed to spread and the faith twisted and chipped away.”

The conservatives do find that a lay men can not bring a sermon because according to the Roman Catholic Church such a task is only for the ordained, priest, bishop, cardinal or Pope. “Lay may not may preach. Point. A sermon is not ‘the word Gods’, but an explanation by the H. Gospel” the Catholic Action says and therefore the writers of the manifest asking to have laymen also to be able to preach is one more reason they are heretics.

In the next chapter we shall look at the reaction about disrespect for the body of Christ the believers who take the word have, according to the conservatives who are fed up with the idea that ordinary man put their hands in the goblet with the Holy Host. Certainly women keep off their hands from the tabernacle! the conservatives say.

In the next chapter we shall see why for the dis-pleasured the matter of the Eucharist and the believe in transubstantiation is so important for the Roman Catholic believe. While the writers of the manifest give the impression they want to dispose of some dogmatic laws which were not in the church of the first centuries of this time, the conservatives hold fast to the historic popes like Pope Innocent III and Paul VI .

According to Staf de Wilde the Catholic church is standing in front of a firm dogmatism and for a pyramidal, say dictatorial structure in which the basis church has to squeak little or nothing. Him remains it surprising that critical religious people within this institute wishes to remain active. According to him an organized belief community does not really has to be church with the qualities of the church of Rome. And as you take away these qualities, then you hold something else over: something resembling the original Christianity perhaps, at that time there did not exist yet an infallible pope and yet no dogmas.

Ignace D’Hert, Dominican and instructor theology at the Higher Institute for Religious Science in Antwerp; Marc Van Tent oblate and former instructor theology at the Centre for Ecclesiastic Studies in Louvain and the Higher Institute for Religious Science in Ganshoren; Eddy Van Waelderen, priest of the diocese Antwerp and many years active as theologian on the Theological and Pastoral Centre in Antwerp, were some of the first theologians that signed the manifesto “Believers take the word” . When these Catholic theologians may not bring in a contribution the mental world of the Catholicism in Flanders, may wonder one self who may well do. Were orthodoxy is for them remaining to seek in fidelity to new sense coming from the Jesus-happening lighting up in the variable circumstances of life. According to me that holds not in that they reject therefore that Catholic Belief.

Today we hear the Flemish priests and serious Christian believers of the Catholic Religion call for some reform. They let Belgium hear their protest about what happened in the Roman Catholic Church in Belgium and how it is degrading or falling to pieces. In case you would call such whistle blowers who protest against a situation “Protestants’, than perhaps you could consider them belonging to the “Protestants’, but because they have no similar teachings as those of the ‘protestants’ of the ‘Protestant Church’ they can never belong to the Protestant Church as such. They may engage in prolonged efforts to make their early efforts intelligible to Rome but they are not aiming to spawn separate movements in their own names. On the other hand we do seem some thoughts to get the people liberated from the mediation of sacramental and clerical system and to give them a freer experience of grace.

An other protestant twinge is their act to want to go more to the Biblical teachings instead preferring to keep to human doctrinal laws. We can notice that they manifesters turned to the Bible for guidance about church governance.

They are still real integer Catholics who want to bring a signal to save the Roman Catholic Church. As in both the Protestant and Catholic Church those people serving those churches should in first instance bringing over Gods Word. They should proclaim the Good News. It should be about the Sacrificial Offer by Jesus. Both have to talk about atonement and reconciliation.

The believers who took the word rang the alarm-bell but did not commit treason to their Roman Catholic Faith. These signatories of the manifesto agree that it is not simple to face those differences which came to light now. The differences that came onto the surface may have lingered already for many years, though those in charge of the Belgian Catholic Church did not want to face them. It will not be easy to go about with the differences on a sober and evangelic manner. Plurality becomes quick disunion. That makes it so difficult in our chaotic world to hold in front the vision of someone else, and to experience it full of joy.

All ought to yield the courage with each other over these fundamentally different views, to come in dialogue. With an open mind and without fear for mutual questioning.

* God can not die, but Jesus, being a man could die but only once. A “re-sacrifice” of Jesus Christ for our sins, or a “re-offering / re-presentation” of His sacrifice is not necessary. Scripture says, that Jesus died “once for all” and does not need to be sacrificed again (Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18). Hebrews 7:27 declares, “Unlike the other high priests, He (Jesus) does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when He offered Himself.” The bread and the wine are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus, but are not a representation of God nor His body or his blood (Because God is a ghost and has no body or blood as human beings.) The bread Jesus was breaking represented what he was going to do. The same for the wine he gave them – his blood hadn’t yet been shed, but the wine represented the blood that would be shed. These words were not meant to be taken in a literal sense then, nor are they now.

°°

To be continued: Manifests for believers #4 Eucharist + Manifests for believers #5 Christian Union

Preceding article: Manifests for believers #2 Changing celibacy requirement

Please do find to read:

A Call for National Dialogue on the Future of Priestly Ministry
Celibacy and the Priesthood
Bishop of Derry calls for end to celibacy in Catholic church
Tracing the Glorious Origins of Priestly Celibacy
Is Jesus Christ actually present in the bread and wine of the Eucharist/communion?
The Lord’s supper is done both to help Christians remember what Jesus has done, and also to proclaim what Jesus has done (‘For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes’: 1 Cor. 11:26).
What is Holy Communion? Why is it necessary to a Christian’s life?Children ate the OT passover so why not NT bread and wine?Are the bread and wine just symbols, or are they really Jesus flesh and blood?Why did Jesus say he wouldn’t drink wine again until the kingdom when he ate and drank other things? (Mark 14:25)Why wasn’t the lying prophet killed? (1 Kings 13)
What is transubstantiation?

In Dutch:

Beminde gelovigen
Gelovigen nemen het woord: Manifest van Vlaamse gelovigen Najaar 2011
Een Manifest voor Gelovigen
Manifest tot protestantse kerk
Manifestanten Protestant of Katholiek
Manifest: [On-]Gelovigen nemen het woord
Terecht scherpe kritiek op “Manifest Gelovigen nemen het woord”
Alfabetische lijst van 8.228 ketters in Vlaanderen
Mgr. Johan Bonny, bisschop van Antwerpen: ‘Ik versta verzuchtingen van het manifest Gelovigen nemen het woord ‘
Theoloog Stijn Van den Bossche:’Woord- en communiediensten zijn niet de eerste oplossing’
Manifest: Wij kiezen voor eenheid
Gelovigen ‘nemen’ het woord niet… Gelovigen ‘AANVAARDEN’ het Woord
Manifest voor het Katholieke Geloof: http://www.petities24.com/gelovigen_aanvaarden_het_woord
Schisma in de Vlaamse Kerk http://kavlaanderen.blogspot.com/2011/11/schisma-in-de-vlaamse-kerk.html
Werkdruk te hoog voor priesters

+++

Pope calls for ‘profound renewal’ of Roman Catholic Church (telegraph.co.uk)

The Pope called for “profound renewal” in the Roman Catholic Church on Monday in an appeal sent to the first conference ever held by the Vatican on the subject of paedophile priests and child abuse.
+
A Vatican statement said that Benedict “supports and encourages every effort to respond with evangelical charity to the challenge of providing children and vulnerable adults with an ecclesiastical environment conducive to their human and spiritual growth.”
+

“You can have all the symposiums you want, but why don’t they open a constructive debate? The Church is too closed in on itself,” Roberto Mirabile, the head of La Caramella Buona, an Italian victims’ group, told AFP.

Sue Cox, from Survivors’ Voice, a coalition of support groups from the US, Britain, Ireland and Germany, said: “You don’t need a jolly in Rome to learn what the right thing to do is. This is just a PR stunt. It’s just theatre really.”
The Catholic Church (theobamacrat.com)
Recently, the catholic leadership came out in opposition to the mandate in our new healthcare law that all health insurance providers offer coverage for prescribed birth control, even for employees in some catholic institutions. But, let’s be clear about what the real issue is here. It is not about government controls, and it is not about infringement of our religious beliefs. It is about a church that has lost touch with reality. The leadership of the catholic church either is ignoring or is unaware of the disconnect between catholic teaching and catholic reality.

Unholy War (annem040359.wordpress.com)
In the last couple of weeks, the President Barack Hussein Obama White House, like hitting a bald face hornets nest during the daytime when it ought to know better, “declared war” on not only the Roman Catholic bishops in the United States, but also the Roman Catholic Church in the United States of America.
Catholic Church ready to declare war on Obama (promoteliberty.wordpress.com)
From the campaign trail last month, GOP contender Newt Gingrich said US President Barack Obama had declared a “war on the Catholic Church.” Some clergy have heard that call and are warning the president: look out, we’re ready to rumble.
Gulf Exists Between Catholic Bishops And Laity On Contraception (lezgetreal.com)
For those who do not grasp the significance of the gulf between the Catholic Bishops and the Catholic laity, what eventually happens is that the laity will drift away from the Bishops. The recent decision by the Obama Administration to require Catholic owned businesses- schools, hospitals and so forth- to carry healthcare choices that cover contraception has the bishops up in arms, but not the laity.
Catholic Church ready to declare war on Obama (rt.com)
“It’s not about contraception. It’s about the right of conscience,” Archbishop Timothy Dolan tells reporters. “The government doesn’t have the right to butt into the internal governance and teachings of the church,” he insists.

“Never before has the federal government forced individuals and organizations to go out into the marketplace and buy a product that violates their conscience,” adds Dolan. “This shouldn’t happen in a land where free exercise of religion ranks first in the Bill of Rights.”
US Catholic Bishops Don’t Know Their Congregants (lezgetreal.com)
The statement issued by the Bishops called contraception against “the mandate of Jesus Christ.” They pulled that one out of their fancy hats. Christ said very little about sexuality and nothing whatsoever about preventing pregnancy. Only the leaders of the church have ever addressed the issues, and did so from some very warped personal positions. They were also the ones who said that clergy should be celibate. They just assumed that since no one bothered to mention any wives that the Apostles might have had, that there weren’t any.
Grimm And Murphy Spar Over Obama Contraception Plan (timesunion.com)
Mr. Murphy also had less-than-kind words for Mr. Grimm’s approach to the issue.

“Once again, when faced with controversy, my opponent is playing the Washington game of seeking publicity and creating division instead of seeking a workable solution,” he said.
Nancy Pelosi: ‘I am going to stick with fellow Catholics’ in Pres. Obama’s war on Catholics. Wherein Fr. Z rants. (wdtprs.com)
Even as the United States’ Catholic bishops have launched an all-out campaign against the Obama administration’s birth control mandate and urged their flocks to resistance, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has invoked the support of “fellow Catholics” to justify her position in favor of the mandate.

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Manifests for believers #2 Changing celibacy requirement

Posted on February 5, 2012. Filed under: Christendom and Christianity, Churchplanning, News and Politics, Religion | Tags: Belgium, Catholic Church, Celibacy, Child Sexual Abuse, Christianity, Clergy, Clerical celibacy, Ethics, Eucharist, Evil, FutureChurch, Jozef De Kesel, Manifest, Marriage, meeting, Ordination, Parish, Roman Catholic Church, Sexual Abuse, Women in Church |

In the previous article Manifests for believers #1 Sex abuse setting fire to the powder we saw that the role of the priest in the child and adult abuse has included cover-ups, neglect, and arrogance. In documents of the church, letters between victims and church, and in the media we could find enough proof the Church has contributed to the spirit of permissiveness. First there were not many attempts to bring everything in good order and to show guilt and reconciliation attempts have resulted in compromises that allowed for the deviancy to continue.

For decades, the problem of paedophilia has been badly managed within the church and now that everything comes out of the cesspool this brought the church in discredit and got even more people leaving their church and their faith. Some wonder if you can you blame Catholics for leaving the faith when these types of attitudes run rampant in the church? The problem becomes bigger when they do take it that “the Church” is bad and that they should not go to any church or return to the Catholic Church because they get the impression that nothing is being done to prevent abuse from happening. It certainly doesn’t seem that the Catholic church has a screening process that will eliminate paedophiles and child molesters.

Steven van der Hoeven talks about his book in which he describes how the sexual abuse he suffered as a child changed his life - Photo Vera de Kok

The atheist Child & Family Therapist Katie from British Columbia, Canada, works professionally with children who have experienced sexual abuse and she is by no means claiming that most sexual abuse happens within the confines of religion, because it doesn’t. “However, religion has the tendency to override rationality and good judgment.” according to her. * “Parents need to acknowledge that religion does not make you any more moral than others and that bad people will do bad things… so teach your children to recognize those people.” And that is what we do agree with; everywhere you can find extreme cases and people who do the wrong things. It has nothing to do with God, except that you would call Him guilty of giving men free spirit and allowed him to do whatever he wanted.

Also the problem of priests not being able to marry made that many who wanted to do some churchwork did not come forward to offer their life for the Church.

°°°

The very planet revolves around actions, thoughts, and words that are fueled by ethics. By the years people and situations change.

With all the tribulations and sex scandals many have lost their faith. Many do claim God for what happens in the world, but then they forget that at the beginning of the world-existence God had given men liberty to go his own way. The first humans had doubted the good meaning of the Creator. They challenged Him and wanted to know the Good and the Evil. They wanted to know as much as God and wanted to direct their own thoughts and life. God did not want to play a dictator to whom everybody had to listen other-while he would vanish. But now that humankind wanted to go its own way it had to bear the consequences of its deeds itself and can not blame God because other humans do something wrong.

If a person lives a holy life and believes in God, he would be better off weather there was a god or not, because his life would be much happier and honourable. The same goes for ethics. If someone lives an ethical life, he or she is destined to be much happier than people who do not follow ethics.

But those ethics have to be fed.

In all religions there exists a connection between religious doctrine and social ethics. In Christianity one of the goals is the establishment of a holy, organized society, ideally based on eternal principles of righteousness and fair dealing, cleanliness and sobriety, honesty and helpfulness. Ethics have an impact on an individual, and they should come out of the Word of God for those who want to spread the Word of God. In such an instance they should work on their character and should try to live according to the Laws of God. The laws governing human conduct in the Bible define both social and economic justice, and the pursuit of a good life in society. Born out of the Judaic system with Hebrew code, the Christianic code of social ethics sets also forth spiritual guidelines regarding lawful and unlawful actions, and rewards for the virtuous and threats of punishment for the wicked.

A community should have people who take care to look at ways of living and to talk about them. There should be people in the world who would not mind helping others to find a good way of living, and to protect those who are not able to come up for them selves. In the previous centuries churches have taken most of that role on to them. But now the church has come in discredit.

Therefore, though the storm is not yet at its height, it can well be that the Roman Catholic Church has shot his bolt.

St. Mary's Maternity Roman Catholic Church in Trzebiatów, Poland - Photo JDavid

The Roman Catholic Church has always proclaimed that it is the only Church which offers “special” access to salvation, by way of truly God’s servants. But those bulletproof servants have received a real good roasting the last few months.

Today several Belgian believers, priests and even bishops do find that since the requirement for celibacy is not a doctrinal issue or dogma, but more of a disciplinary rule, there is no reason why this requirement cannot be amended to reflect the changing times. The majority of parishioners, including many members in the hierarchy of the Church, believe that changing the celibacy requirement may prevent abuse from happening in the first place (National Catholic Reporter, 1998). Because of the decline in those entering the priesthood, there are fewer priests to serve their communities.

The discipline by which some, or all members of the clergy in certain religions, are required to be unmarried is not any more for this time. Considering deliberate sexual thoughts, feelings, and behaviour outside of marriage to be sinful, clerical celibacy also requires abstention from these, and as history has shown that does not seem to work on a lot of ‘spiritual men’. That the Roman Catholic Church demands sacred ministers celibacy because than they would be more able to adhere more easily to Christ with an undivided heart and dedicate themselves more freely to the service of God and humanity, is a superseded idea.

It is long our of date that people would not be able to do their job properly when they are married. As for a worldly job, the spiritual job can even make more use of the inside information a married person can get from the family members and his situation in a common form of living together.

In some Christian churches, such as the Latin Rite Catholic Church and some Eastern Catholic Churches, priests and bishops must as a rule remain unmarried, while in others, such as the Eastern Orthodox Church, the churches of Oriental Orthodoxy and some of the Eastern Catholic Churches, married men may be ordained as deacons or priests, but may not remarry if their wife dies. Since celibacy is seen as a consequence of the obligation of continence, it implies abstinence from sexual relationships. The Catholic Code of Canon Law prescribes: “Clerics are to behave with due prudence towards persons whose company can endanger their obligation to observe continence or give rise to scandal among the faithful.”

People should know that the rule of clerical celibacy is a law of the Church (the human institution) itself, not a doctrine and can not be found as a Biblical obligation. According to the Roman Catholic Church, a very few times exceptions can be made, and it can, in principle, be changed at any time by the Pope. Nonetheless, both the present Pope, Benedict XVI, and his predecessor, under pressure to change it, spoke clearly of their understanding that the traditional practice is unlikely to change.

Warsaw - Metropolitan orthodox church of St.Mary Magdalene - Photo Rafal Klisowski

Clerical celibacy and monastic vows, made in Roman Catholic, Anglican, and Eastern Orthodox Churches, deprived the church of the services of many men who might have become shining stars. On the other hand, it has been calculated by Justus Möser in 1750, that within two centuries after the Reformationfrom ten to fifteen millions of human beings in all lands owe their existence to the abolition of clerical celibacy. {Ranke states this fact.} More important than this numerical increase is the fact that an unusual proportion of eminent scholars and useful men in church and state were descended from clerical families. Among distinguished sons of clergymen may be named Linné, the botanist; Berzelius, the chemist; Pufendorf, the lawyer; Schelling, the philosopher; Buxtorff, the Orientalist; Euler, the mathematician; Agassiz, the scientist; Edward and Ottfried Müller, the classical philologists; John von Müller, Spittler, Heeren, Mommsen, Bancroft, among historians; Henry Clay, Senator Evarts, and two Presidents of the United States, Arthur and Cleveland, among statesmen; Charles Wesley, Gellert, Wieland, Lessing, the brothers Schlegel, Jean Paul, Emanuel Geibel, Emerson (also the female writers Meta Heusser, Elizabeth Prentiss, Mrs. Stowe), among poets; John Wesley, Monod, Krummacher, Spurgeon, H. W. Beecher, R. S. Storrs, among preachers; Jonathan Edwards, Schleiermacher, Hengstenberg, Nitzsch, Julius Müller, Dorner, Dean Stanley, among divines; Swedenborg, the seer; with a large number of prominent and useful clergymen, lawyers, and physicians, in all Protestant countries.*

Many dioceses engage in the morally questionable practice of importing priests from the developing world despite even more severe priest shortages in those countries.

In recent years Pope Benedict XVI has made allowances for married Anglican ministers to transfer to the Catholic church after a number made the move in protest at controversial Anglican issues including the ordination of women priests, and acceptance of ministers in same-sex relationships. In 1980 married Anglican/Episcopal pastors were ordained as catholic priests in the U.S.; also in Canada and England in 1994, while simultaneously dismissing Catholic priests who marry and failing to recognize the vocations of Catholic married men. Some bishops are changing priests’ retirement age from 70 to 75. Many are embracing several of these strategies simultaneously yet none will arrest the steep declines looming ahead.

The stubborn Belgian knows the ropes and the celibate is something which is already sticking in his throat to long. They are at their wits’end what to do with it and with the scandals the church had to encounter. The clergy men became upset by the conservative and silent attitude of the Church leaders in Rome. According to many it is a myth that the vocation shortage is due to materialism and lack of faith. Research (1985 Lilly endowment) showed that “there is no evidence to support loss of faith for less vocations…youth volunteer and campus ministry is rising.”

Flemish bishop of Bruges Jozef De Kesel

The Bishop of Bruges, Jozef De Kesel, has questioned celibacy for priests and called for an open discussion on the position of women in the Church. The bishop of Hasselt, Patrick Hoogmartens and Bishop Johan Bonny of Antwerp have also said that married men should not automatically be excluded from the priesthood. (Reuters,9/22/10)

In several countries there is a “Call To Action and FutureChurch” from Catholic lay people as well as priests and nuns, who respect the Catholic tradition and are working respectfully to effect change in the Church because they love it and want to make it better. Those ‘FutureChurch‘ members consider themselves parish-based because the resolutions which founded that church came from individual parishes and because so many of their members consider the parish their primary place of worship.

Priestly Ordination at the abbey of Fontgombault (France)

Jesus did not ordain anyone. Ordination was a practice that started to occur decades later in church history. Jesus had both male and female disciples and those who helped to spread the faith were men and women, who often had regular jobs and children. It were people who gathered around Jesus and went back to their own places to tell about this special man. Others became so much interested in the teachings of this master teacher from Nazareth that they loved to spread his teachings. Men and women continued to teach what they had learned from either Jesus or from his disciples. It were common people who continued the tradition of spreading the Word of God by coming together in each others houses or in synagogues. (So at first there where not even special build places to meet and to have the worship services.) Later when they were not welcome any more in the synagogues and their private houses became to small they came together in public places or they build meeting houses or ecclesiae to congregate , gather or meet.

The Flemish priests who were not afraid to let the Roman Catholic world hear their voice believe as many other priests in the world, that priests should be allowed to marry and that women have an equal right to have their call to ordination tested along with male candidates. Some of them believe also that celibacy is a gift of the Spirit, as is the call to marriage and the single life. Gifts cannot be mandated, so it is from a deep respect for the gift of celibacy that they request that it be made optional and not forced upon those who do not feel called in this way.

At the end of 2011 more Belgian priests urged Catholics and compatriots to start talking about what the priest shortage means to them and their parishes. Some ideas were written down in ‘A Manifest for Believers‘ so that the subject would become more known and that the public debate could bes started. By the manifest they want to encourage the formation of dialogue groups in parishes and small faith communities.

According to a survey taken between December, 2010 and January, 2011, seven out of ten Flemish priests are against celibacy for priests, are for the access of women to the priesthood, (La Croix, 2/19/2011)

The Belgian Manifesto urges the bishops to find solutions to the priest shortage and open discussion about ending mandatory celibacy as a requirement for the diocesan priesthood.

It may be a surprise that still so many people want to go for that institute which has received so much damage from people who were in charge of it. Strange also that they keep clinging at this institute which has betrayed so many people. The manifesto can be an expression of a liberation movement. In civic culture we have seen the emancipation movement, and now perhaps time has come that we get such an emancipation movement in church as well.

But can this corroded pre-eminently paternalistic institute take off its ‘old garments ‘ and transform itself in a contemporary, modern belief community, characterized by a basic democracy.

In this 21st century the Roman Catholic Church still seems to be a nearly dictatorial institution which by requiring at least some of its clerics and its religious not to marry, the Catholic Church falls under Paul’s condemnation in 1 Timothy 4:3 against apostates who “forbid marriage.”

The Catholic Bible writes: “the spirit expressly states that in the \@acharit-hayamim\@ some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. such teachings come from the hypocrisy of liars whose own consciences have been burned, as if with a red-hot branding iron. they forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods which god created to be eaten with thanksgiving by those who have come to trust and to know the truth. for everything created by god is good, and nothing received with thanksgiving needs to be rejected, because the word of god and prayer make it holy.” (1 Timothy 4:1-5 CJB)
or in a Protestant translation:
“The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.” (1 Timothy 4:1-5 NIV)

God has created man and woman, told them to live with each other, to marry and have children. So why is it forbidden to those men and women to choose somebody of the other sex, marry, live with each other and have children from each other?

In the old times most Catholics married, but today most live together without having had a marriage, tough all Catholics are taught to venerate marriage as a holy institution—a sacrament, an action of God upon their souls; one of the holiest things we encounter in this life. A lot of Belgian Catholics also quite often switch partner. But the servants of God should know the Laws of God and should be the first ones to keep to them. According to the Laws of God the man or the woman who does not keep to the Laws of God and has not an ethic acceptable good honest life, should not be allowed to do some church work. In the New Testament are several writings were we can find women and man teaching the Good News of the coming Kingdom of God, and also writings from the apostles how they have to comply to the Law and how they have to comply with certain expectations. So, in the early church also women had their tasks and helped the church grow.

Even the old Father Edward Daly, who was the Bishop of Derry for 20 years during the Troubles, has become the first senior Irish Catholic cleric to call for an end to celibacy in the church. His intervention in the debate over whether priests should be allowed to marry is highly significant because he is still one of the most respected figures in the Irish Catholic church at a time when faith in the institution has been shattered by the paedophile scandals involving clergy. Challenging centuries of Catholic theocracy, Daly has said that allowing the clergy to marry would solve some of the church’s problems. “There will always be a place in the church for a celibate priesthood, but there should also be a place for a married priesthood in the church,” Daly writes in his book A Troubled See, Memoirs of a Derry Bishop, published in September 2011.

While Daly accepts he might be out of step with current Vatican thinking he points out that he is “not engaged in a popularity contest”. He says that during his time as a bishop he found it “heartbreaking” that so many priests or prospective priests were forced to resign or were unable to get ordained because of the celibacy issue.

Many young men who once considered joining the priesthood turned away because of the rule, the 74-year-old cleric argues. From most people who were interested to become a priest, but did not follow their vocation, the rule of celibacy was the main reason not to go for it. Because of that we do have to face the catastrophic shortage of priests and see a serious neglect of the Eucharist, and a widespread breakdown of pastoral care.

Merging parishes into “pastoral units” did offer less services to the believers who became less interested in worshipping in a far away church, ministered to by badly overworked priests who did seem to have lost the zeal and interest as well.

And this is something we can hear in many countries.

Though parishioners not receiving enough opportunities to go to mass or take part of the sacraments is against other writings in the Catholic Faith.

“Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people,’ have a right and an obligation by reason of their Baptism.” (Sacrosanctum Concilium)

“The laity have the right, as do all Christians, to receive in abundance from their sacred pastors the spiritual goods of the Church, especially the assistance of the Word of God and the sacraments.” (Lumen Gentium, 37).

“Christ’s faithful are at liberty to make known their needs, especially their spiritual needs, and their wishes to the Pastors of the Church.”(Canon Law 212.2 )

“They have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church.” (Canon Law 212.3 )

Today that Church is not willing to provide the means to take care of their believers. In many villages there are no regular church services any more. At the village were our office is there is only once a month a service with Eucharist. It is for such bad situations the priest ring the Alarm and want that the Roman Catholic Church does everything to let the parishes to stay open and the Eucharist to remain the centre of Catholic worship.

Internationally there is already a ” Save our Parish Community project” that has helped parishioners hold their bishops accountable by appealing mistaken decisions to close their vital, solvent parishes because of the priest shortage.

The Flemish priests and several important political and civilian figures plead in favour of having as well married men as women being permitted as priest in the Church office. They do hope the permission shall be given very soon, because there is an acute shortage of priests and those who want to do some religious work are now so much-needed.

*of Intro: Child Sexual Abuse within the Dutch Catholic Church

* Reflections on Clerical Family Life

To be continued: Manifests for believers #3 Catholic versus Protestant

Preceding article: Manifests for believers #1 Sex abuse setting fire to the powder

Manifests for believers #1 Sex abuse setting fire to the powder

Posted on February 3, 2012. Filed under: Christendom and Christianity, Endtimes | Tags: Belgium, Catechism class, Catholic Church, Celibacy, Child Sexual Abuse, Child-molestation, Clergy, Council of Agde, Council of Elvira, Council of Orléans, Council of Trent, Crimen Sollicitationis, Gerald Fitzgerald, John Calvin, Manifest, Papacy, Philip Melanchthon, Pope Benedict XVI, Roman Catholic Church, Sexual Abuse, Women in Church |

In the 50s and 60s of the previous century many acolytes and young boys became confronted with not such a nice site of human nature and his urge to have physical contact. Growing older and not having been able to cope with the old trauma some got up from their quit seat and started to tell tales out of school.

Telling their secret the Roman Catholic Church became once more confronted with the problem of celibacy and sexuality.

These people left disillusioned those churches in which they had faith at first, but those whom they trusted misused their power. They went out from the closed community where their parents at that time had no ears for their unbelievable stories. Though they had already to fight their shame to talk about it with somebody else they did not find an ear at that time to be sympathetic. Many of them a lack of self esteem and also got mental disorders, or after many years having it put away it came up when they got older and started to bother them more. Some dramatic and well-publicized cases involving allegations of childhood sexual abuse have raised very controversial issues, such as the right of children’s testimony and recovered memories of sexual abuse.

As in many other countries it looked as if the church used remote villages to dump their child-molesting priests. Several youngsters took at that time or later in life their own life. In several countries the abusers were specifically sent to certain isolated places “to get them off the grid, where they could do the least amount of damage” to the church’s public image, but in Belgium they still received high places and even got to do important work with youngsters.

At the time of the many boarding schools boys found themselves in the “internaat” its boys dormitory an easy prey, but several were also raped during their private catechism class. Larry Wright Cartoon for 06/12/2002

The history of child molestation in the Catholic Church goes back centuries. The first official decree on the subject was written at the Council of Elvira, held around A.D. 305 near Granada, Spain. The precise history is complicated, but the council is traditionally believed to have set down 81 rules for behaviour, the 71st of which is: “Those who sexually abuse boys may not commune even when death approaches.” It was the harshest one-strike policy: If you’re caught abusing a child, you are not only laicized, but permanently excommunicated—damned for all time.*

The problem with sex in the church can be seen by many pops in history who got many wives or many mistresses, until the church found it high time to put some order in the pigsty.

In the history of clerical celibacy conciliar legislation marks the second period during which the law took definite shape both in the East and in the West. The earliest enactment on the subject is that of the Spanish Council of Elvira (between 295 and 302) in canon xxxiii. It imposes celibacy upon the three higher orders of the clergy, bishops, priests, and deacons. If they continue to live with their wives and beget children after their ordination they are to be deposed. This would seem to have been the beginning of the divergence in this matter between East and West.

“As a rule”, remarks Bishop Wordsworth from his anti-celibate standpoint, “the great writers of the fourth and fifth century pressed celibacy as the more excellent way with an unfair and misleading emphasis which led to the gravest and moral mischief and loss of power in the Church.” (The Ministry of Grace, 1902, p. 223).

The Council of Agde in Gaul, in 506, forbade subdeacons to marry, and such synods as those of Orléans in 538 and Tours in 567 prohibited even those already married from continuing to live with their wives.

The synods of the sixth and seventh centuries, while fully recognizing the position of these former wives and according them even the formal designation of female bishops, priestess, deaconess, and subdeaconess (episcopissa, presbytera, diaconissa, subdiaconissa), laid down some very strict rules to guide their relations with their former husbands. The bishopess, as a rule, did not live in the same house with the bishop (see the Council of Tours in 567, can. xiv). For the lower grades actual separation does not seem to have been required, although the Council of Orléans in 541, can. xvii, ordained: “ut sacerdotes sive diacom cum conjugibus suis non habeant commune lectum et cellulam”; while curious regulations were enforced requiring the presence of subordinate clergy in the sleeping apartment of the bishop, archpriest, etc., to prevent all suspicion of scandal (see, e.g., the Council of Tours, in 567), canons xiii and xx).

St. Dunstan, Archbishop of Canterbury from 960 to 988, a period during which the papacy was subjected to oppression and disorder of the worst kind, more than any other character in early English history can be identified with the cause of a celibate clergy . But the seventeenth century, seemingly was not inconsistent with at least ordinary fidelity to their vows of continence.

Before the middle ages it was allowable for Catholic priests to have multiple wives and mistresses (concubines). During the Middle Ages clergy were known to solicit sexual favours from their female penitents and some priests kept concubines. It was also known that Pope Alexander VI had several illegitimate children and that the nuns of Godstow were the ones who spread syphilis to the husbands of the families who lived around their convent (Durant, 1980; Mee, 1972). This type of abuse has continued down through the centuries.

But with concerns for protecting Church property from inheritance Pope Pelagius I made new priests agree offspring could not inherit Church property. Pope Gregory then declared all sons of priests illegitimate (only sons since lowly daughters could not inherit anyway in society).

>> Is this a joke or serious? > “Webster’s dictionary defines catamite as “the youthful lover of an older man derived from the Latin name Catamus.” Catamus was the first Catholic priest, who didn’t even wait until the rock of Lord Jesus‘ tomb was rolled back to get a young boy spread eagle on a altar (a practice that resulted in the early church adopting the name “altar boy.”) The first Pope was so impressed with Catamus’ ability to bugger young altar boys while never losing his place in scripture during service, that he coined the name for the new church “Catholic,” using Catamus’ name and the activity for which Catamus had become notorious. The traditions establish by Catamus have become sacred rites of passage for all Catholic priests, often taking 40-50 years to perfect and master. What once was ostensibly a Christian Church has become little more than a excuse for grown men to wear dresses and bugger young boys – with the so-called “church” offering the vocational perk to its priests of often relocating pedophiles to new parishes so that they may “sample some new flavors.” “(The Landover Baptist Catamite Hotline) <

The other major condemnation of clerical sex abuse was The Book of Gomorrah, completed by radical church reformer Father Peter Damian (a Benedictine monk, as it happens, who became a cardinal) in 1051. He appealed directly to the pope about the abuse of children, as well as consensual sex among clergy—in howling language: “O unheard of crime! O outrage to be mourned with a whole fountain of tears!… What fruitfulness can still be found in the flocks when the shepherd is so deeply sunk in the belly of the devil!”*

In the 15th century there are still 50% of priests married, but at the 1545-63-Council of Trent it was stated that celibacy and virginity are superior to marriage.

Philip Melanchthon - c. 1535 by Hans Holbein the Younger

The Reformation has changed the moral ideal, and elevated domestic and social life. Philipp Schwartzerdt Melanchthon, collaborator with Martin Luther, the first systematic theologian of the Protestant Reformation, intellectual leader of the Lutheran Reformation, and an influential designer of educational systems, was the first among the Reformers who entered the state of matrimony; but being a layman, he violated no priestly or monastic vow. He married, at the urgent request of his friends, Katharina Krapp, the daughter of the burgomaster of Wittenberg, in November, 1520, and lived with his plain, pious, faithful, and benevolent wife, till her death in 1557. He was seen at times rocking the cradle while reading a book. {C. Schmidt, Philipp Melanchthon, pp. 47 sqq., 617, 710 sqq.}

Jean Calvin or John Calvin, the influential French theologian and pastor, was likewise free from the obligation of vows, but the severest and most abstemious among the Reformers. He had the air of being so hostile to celibacy but his first engagement did not turn into a marriage. He knew a good reason why it would not be bad to marry: “If I take a wife it will be because, being better freed from numerous worries, I can devote myself to the Lord.”

He married Idelette de Bure, a widow who had two children from her first marriage of an Anabaptist minister John Storder from Liège. whom he had converted to the Paedobaptist faith or Anabaptism. Calvin’s fellow labourer Martin Bucer had known Idelette and recommended her to Calvin in confidence that she would be the woman who was “chaste, obliging, not fastidious, economical, patient, and careful for (his) health”. Idelette busied herself attending to Calvin in his many illnesses, faithfully visiting the sick and afflicted, and making her home a refuge for those who fled for their lives and their faith. Though she survived the plague when it ravaged Geneva, Idelette died after a lengthy illness in 1549. Calvin had lived with her for nearly nine years, had three children who died in infancy, and remained a widower after her death.

In the 1930s, a priest-psychiatrist—and also a Benedictine—named Reverend Thomas Verner Moore researched the higher-than-usual rates of insanity and alcoholism among Catholic clergy. He suggested the church build an asylum for priests. The U.S. Catholic Bishops turned down his request in 1936. Father Moore became a Carthusian hermit.*

In 1947, Father Gerald Fitzgerald founded the Servants of the Paraclete in Jemez, New Mexico—the same institution Father Poole was to visit almost 50 years later.*

In a 1957 letter to the Bishop of Manchester, Father Fitzgerald wrote that predatory priests (who he euphemistically refers to as “schizophrenic”) cannot be effectively treated and should not be allowed to continue in the ministry:

Their repentance and amendment is superficial and, if not formally at least subconsciously, is motivated by a desire to be again in a position where they can continue their wonted activity. A new diocese means only green pastures… We are amazed to find how often a man who would be behind bars if he were not a priest is entrusted with the cura animarum [the cure, or care, of souls].*

By the early 1960s, Father Fitzgerald had seen enough chronic paedophiles that he did not want to treat them and have them re-released into the ministry, but, as he proposed in a letter to Archbishop Davis, to build an “island retreat… but even an island is too good for these vipers.”*

Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment

Cardinal Ratzinger in 2001 issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church’s interests ahead of child safety. The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated. Crimen Sollicitationis was enforced for 20 years by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became Pope Benedict XVI. It imposes an oath of secrecy on the child victim, the priest dealing with the allegation and any witnesses.
Breaking that oath means excommunication from the Catholic Church.

This culture of secrecy and fear of scandal that led bishops to place the interests of the Catholic Church ahead of the safety of children was a time bomb ticking and last year in Belgium the alarm shook Belgium awake. The Adriaenssens commission published a 200-page report on 10 September 2010. According to the report, the commission heard testimony from 488 complainants, concerning incidents that took place between 1950 and 1990. The report contained testimony from 124 people. Two-thirds of the complainants were men, now aged in their 50s and 60s. {Caroline Caldier, “Belgique : un rapport analyse les conséquences de la pédophilie dans l’Eglise”, France Info, 10 September 2010.+ Radio Canada, “Rapport accablant de l’Église belge”, 10 September 2010, accessed 22 September 2010.}
In 1998 it was reported that a catechism textbook for Belgian children called Roeach 3, edited by Prof. Jef Bulckens of the Catholic University of Leuven and Prof. Frans Lefevre of the Seminary of Bruges, showed comic-book-style pictures of toddlers asking sexual questions and engaging in sexual play, for example: a drawing which showed a naked baby girl saying: “Stroking my pussy makes me feel groovy,” “I like to take my knickers off with friends,” “I want to be in the room when mum and dad have sex.” The drawing also shows a naked little boy and girl that are “playing doctor” and the little boy says: “Look, my willy is big.”

"I like it to fondle my little chink" or "I like to caress my little pussy"

The drawing also showed three pairs of parents. Those with the “correct” attitude reply: “Yes, feeling and stroking those little places is good fun.” In Belgium religion is a compulsory subject and this “catechism textbook” was used in the catechism lessons in the catholic schools, until one day the Irish-Belgian Alexandra Colen, member of Parliament for the Flemish-secessionist party Vlaams Blok (now Vlaams Belang), discovered it among the schoolbooks of her eldest daughter, then 13 years old. On 3 September 1997 she wrote a letter to Cardinal Danneels, saying: “When I see this drawing and its message, I get the distinct impression that this catechism textbook is designed intentionally to make 13 and 14 year olds believe that toddlers enjoy genital stimulation. In this way one breeds pedophiles that sincerely believe that children actually think that what they are doing to them is ‘groovy’, while the opposite is the case.”

After the wife of Paul Belien, the editor of the conservative-libertarian blog The Brussels Journal, started her campaign against the Roeach textbook, many parents contacted her to voice their concerns. Stories of other practices in the Catholic education system poured in. There were schools where children were taught to put condoms over artificial penises and where they had to watch videos showing techniques of masturbation and copulation.

The Belgian Catholic hierarchy stated that the textbook was intended for adolescents, and that the pictures were meant to convey the idea that young children experience lust, a prevalent theory in contemporary psychology. Nevertheless the textbook was withdrawn after public protests by Catholics, which elicited media coverage as well as support from Church officials around the world.

Flemish are considered to be as Lions (The Flemish Combat Flag) - Vlaamse (stijd)vlag, 13de Eeuw

Over the last decade Belgian society has become increasingly aware of the problem of abuse and neglect of children. Several court cases, and the ensuing media coverage, has brought the discussion to the public forum.

In 2010 Peter Adriaenssens said cases of abuse, mostly involving minors, had been found in nearly every diocese, and 13 alleged victims had committed suicide.

The child psychiatrist, who has worked with trauma victims for 23 years, said nothing had prepared him for the stories of abuse, which multiplied as former abusers gave testimony.

“We saw how priests, called up by the commission and asked to help seek the truth, were willing to set up the list of 10, 15, 20 victims they abused during boarding school while the commission knew only of one,” he said.

Many alleged victims came forward to testify to the commission after the Bishop of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe, resigned in 2010, admitting to having sexually abused a boy before and after becoming a bishop.

The commission also stressed that sexual abuse happened within all religions and organisations, but sufficient evidence is provided to suggest that crimes have been consistently covered up. Repeated denial by the church is hardly credible in the face of evidence provided by independent investigations.

Ostrich policy

Unfortunately, however, the Roman Catholic Church tried to minimise the happenings deny all charges at first but when more and more documents could proof the charges they came up with all different stories to defend their clergymen.

Other situations where clerics have sexually acted out with adult women and men, nuns and seminarians, have not been looked at; nor the effect on any offspring they may have sired in the process. For that matter, the personal cost to victims and their families remains uncounted. How many lives destroyed through alcohol, drugs, unsafe sex or violence have there been? How much abuse has been repeated by its victims? How many suicides and ruined families? How can the total cost ever be calculated?

In any case the Roman Catholic Church lost all her credibility with the many scandals and her trying to cover it up.

The whole story made it that the already very empty churches became even more empty, but also started the debate about celibacy. More voices, even from priests and bishops called to have the possibility for a priest to get married and to have a ‘normal sexual life’.

With the call to end celibacy also came the call to give married people, lay men and women.

Child-molestation kept silent by Vatican. - Oh nooo, you are joking! Terrible! The income of the church is dropping by 2%

Statistically 75% of Belgians are called inscribed by the Roman Catholic Church, because the people let their child be baptised. By doing so they are taken into account to have their clergymen being paid by the Belgian government. As elsewhere in Europe, secularization has hit hard in Belgium and the scandals did not help to stop the decline. Sunday church attendance has dropped well below 5% .

In the year 2010, the number ‘ontdopingen’ or the ‘ending of baptism in the Roman Catholic Church’ (a ‘disposal of the baptism’) became multiplied nearly 10 times in Flanders compared to 2009; the total number was in 2010 , 5115 (2009: ca. 626), but that could be even more1because the dioceses Ghent and Mechelen/Malines-Brussels did not yet have all figures. For sure that went up even more in 2011 were people got every day some more surprising facts on radio and television and people openly declaring they were leaving the catholic Church. The most important reason they gave up, was that they could not find themselves no longer in the Catholic Church through the abuse scandals or in the manner on which the church leadership went around with these ‘paedophile crisis’ .

But, the declining number of new priests was the only thing the cardinal and bishops were concerned of. As of 2010, there are about 1,900 priests in the archdiocese of Malines-Brussels, but most of them are either retired or on the verge of retirement. Only two were ordained in 2007. {Robert Mickens, “Where have all the thinkers gone?” (interview), in The Tablet, May 31, 2008: 6-7.}

Though sexual abuse is the most shaming of all abuse and a misuse of power the church had seemed it to happen and thumbed her nose about it. As long as it happened with priests at odd moments and not publicly it did not seem to matter and the world would not have to know about it.

But honestly believing priest who had the urge to have a sex live but did not want to do wrong against Gods Will got no answers to their questions to find a solution and to break with the celibacy. Now that many priest are put in the corner and others became to old to serve properly, the Catholic Church has a real problem in shortage of priests.

Celibacy for the clergy of the Catholic Church is “the renunciation of marriage implicitly or explicitly made, for the more perfect observance of chastity, by all those who receive the Sacrament of Orders in any of the higher grades”. The character of this renunciation is differently understood in the Eastern and in the Western Church.

This law of celibacy often has repeatedly been made the object of attack, but now it got to the apogee. Those preferring that they could marry found now enough reasons to bring it forth. For them denouncing this unscriptural rule would also take away a lot of prejudices thus created. according the Catholic Church the conviction that virginity possesses a higher sanctity and clearer spiritual intuitions, seems to be an instinct planted deep in the heart of man. But common sense breaks with that. “The more holy and exalted we represent the state of marriage to be, the more we justify the married priest in giving the first place in his thoughts to his wife and family and only the second to his work” according to the New Advent Catholic Encyclopaedia.

BREAKING: MEER DAN HONDERD MELDINGEN SEKSUEEL MISBRUIK KINDEREN JEUGDZORG With Pope St. Leo IX, St. Gregory VII (Hildebrand), and their successors, a determined and successful stand was made against the further spread of corruption, but today we can see that a hidden form of corruption came into existence which was more delicate, more dangerous, and more damaging.

According to Hans Küng the time has come to challenge that celibacy requirement. Celibacy is not solely responsible for these crimes of child abuse but it is the most important structural expression of the Catholic hierarchy’s inhibitions with regard to sexuality, evident also in its attitude toward birth control and other questions that caused a lot of harm. He writes: “Although there is no question that abuse also occurs in families, schools, and youth organizations, as well as in churches that do not have the rule of celibacy, why are there such an extraordinary number of cases specifically in the Catholic church, whose leaders are celibate?

The rule of celibacy is the main reason for the catastrophic shortage of priests, the serious neglect of the Eucharist, and the widespread breakdown of pastoral care—a problem that has been papered over by merging parishes into “pastoral units” ministered to by badly overworked priests.

In previous times the problem for the church was mainly the financial matter. The clergymen or monks in sacred orders who went through the marriage ceremony with any woman, or in which children were born after his ordination claimed to inherit his property upon his death. The church wanted not only a dowry when the person came to be a servant in the church. After the ‘marriage portion’ everything earned while serving had to come back to the church. Having heirs would bring the treasury of the church in danger as well as the position of certain persons, because before the celibacy people inherited also the degree of their father (bishop, cardinal, etc.)

In 1970, the decline in priesthood vocations persuaded nine leading theologians to sign a memorandum declaring that the Catholic leadership “quite simply has a responsibility to take up certain modifications” to the celibacy rule. Extracts from the document were reprinted in January 2011. Not least because one of the signatories was the then Joseph Ratzinger, now pope Benedict.

With modernization and having to be more open, the time has come that the Roman Catholic Church goes back to the first Christians and to what is written in the Holy Scriptures do find also many Belgian catholic priests and even some bishops.

For them the opposition to the law of celibacy, which frequently took the form of open agitation, both in the earlier Middle Ages and again at the Reformation period, not only calls for notice in modern times of such movements, today time is ripe to turn back to first years of Christianity and to accept priest and people who work in the church-community for the congregation, to be married.

Official report on Child abse in the Roman Catholic Church - Eindrapport van de commissie-Deetman

For the Belgian priests in charge today it is clear that ethic is driven by a moral, an idea of what is right and wrong, what should and shouldn’t be, no matter believer or non believer. but for them and for us it is clear that those who want to work for God and proclaim the Good News of the Coming Kingdom, they should even take more care to live according to the Laws of God. In those laws it is not forbidden for men of God to marry, most of the apostles and disciples who worked in the community were married. But it is totally wrong to indulge in sexual acts which or against the normal human condition and which or against the Will of God. Sexual plays with children or people of the own sex or disgusted by the Most High god of gods, who also does not like sluttish attitude.

For the priests the men are normal human beings with their needs. That the Belgian Catholic Church will ask trainee priests to take psychological tests, as it moves to tackle scandals over clerical child abuse, shall not help much.

Het rapport Adriaenssens bracht onlangs de grote omvang van het aantal gevallen van seksueel kindermisbruik onomstotelijk en op pijnlijke wijze aan het licht.

Belgian commission for treatment of the complaints about sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church - Rapport Adriaenssens

The church may have here internal laws but they should adapt to the times. Today people have a total different attitude then some centuries ago when there had to be called a halt to the sordid sexual life clergy had. Ethic rules are different today, as well as the attitude about relationships. though on that point we notice the ordinary people gone wild and not so much sticking to healthy regimen. The pattern of living of a lot of young people is not exactly a nice pattern of living to be an example.

But the Belgian clergy do have their point to call for change.

To be continued: Manifests for believers #2 Changing celibacy requirement

TD Jakes Breaks Down the Trinity, Addresses Being Called a ‘Heretic’

Posted on January 30, 2012. Filed under: Christendom and Christianity, Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Elephant Room, Evangelicals, God, James MacDonald, Jesus, Mark Driscoll, Mars Hill Church, Modalism, Patripassianism, Sabellianism, T. D. Jakes, Trinity, United Pentecostal Church International |

United Pentecostal Church International logo - Image via Wikipedia

On the The Christian Post was published an article by Nicola Menzie we would like to share with our readers, plus with our brothers and sisters in the ecclesia.

The magazine lets apologetics author Mark Mittelberg warn that an increasing number of Christians are drifting away from their faith because of the lack of good answers to their spiritual questions and at the same time looks into the the second installment of the Elephant Room, a theological roundtable featuring blunt conversations among seven influential pastors.

Pastor James MacDonald, who shared moderator duties with Pastor Mark Driscoll, may have helped eliminate the fireworks that took place during Round 1 of the Elephant Room but there were plenty of repercussions before and after the Round 2 discussion.

MacDonald had drawn critics for inviting Bishop T. D. Jakes. Many Reformed Christians accused Jakes of being a “heretic” due to his purported belief in modalism – the insistence that members of the Holy Trinity are not three distinct, eternally co-existing persons, but only forms of God (a singular spirit), a doctrine held by Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals.

“It has cost me some relationships,” said MacDonald during one of the final sessions on Wednesday. “I thought I knew what the Lord wanted me to do, and I had good counsel. Craig Groeschel has a lot of wisdom, and he said to me, ‘Just because someone doesn’t want you in their circle anymore doesn’t mean they can’t be in yours.’”

Mark Driscoll, founding pastor at Mars Hill Church in Seattle, was raised Catholic. Some Catholics know about Jesus but according to him he wasn’t one of them. “A pastor’s daughter gave me a Bible. She’s now my wife.” he said. ” I was reading Romans in college for a philosophy class. I finally understood sin is pride. I thought it was just bad moral behavior and I considered myself fairly moral. I had a whole lot of pride and still do. God convicted me of my sin and opened my heart to Jesus reading the book of Romans. So, a Catholic boy reading the book of Romans. Go figure. Jesus made sense and I had to go find a church.”

James MacDonald, founding pastor of Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago, gave his life to Jesus Christ when he was 7 years old. “It was February of 1967. It was after a Sunday night service. Our pastor had preached the Gospel and I was too fearful to go down front during the invitation. But when I went home I was still under conviction and I went out into the kitchen and asked my parents, and my mom led me to Christ. I wandered from the Lord during my teenage years, and though I tried to let go of the Lord, He never let go of me. I had more return experiences, but I know that I know that God knows that I am a child of God today.”

(L-R) T.D. Jakes, Jack Graham, Mark Driscoll, James MacDonald, Wayne Cordeiro, Steven Furtick, and Crawford Loritts appear at "The Elephant Room" 2012 roundtable on Jan. 25, 2012.

MacDonald and Driscoll organized for the first time ‘The Elephant Room discussions’ in 2011 and believe that by talking openly about their differences in series of “blunt conversations”, pastors and church leaders can assist in edifying the Church.

This year the seven pastors participating in the event all agreed that in a Gospel presentation there are five elements that are key: recognition of sin, that Jesus lived without sin, Jesus’ death and resurrection, repentance, and faith.

Weighing in on the debate, Bishop T.D. Jakes of The Potter’s House in Dallas warned that pastors run into problems when they start comparing different styles and methods of Gospel presentations and ministry.

“We are in an age where we want to come up with a recipe for everything,” he said. “When we try to get methodology down to a science we defy the mystery of the Gospel.”

Prior to Wednesday’s event, Pastor James MacDonald – also the moderator

of the discussions along with Driscoll – had drawn critics for inviting Bishop T. D. Jakes to the Elephant Room, in regards to his beliefs about the Godhead.

Many Reformed Christians accuse Jakes of being a “heretic” due to his purported belief in modalism – the insistence that members of the Holy Trinity are not three distinct, eternally co-existing persons, but only forms of God (a singular spirit), a doctrine held by Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals.

For that reason, conservative evangelicals and leaders at The Gospel Coalition allegedly began pressuring MacDonald to “pull the plug” on Bishop Jakes’ appearance at the Elephant Room conference, which eventually led MacDonald to resign as a TGC council member. Bishop T.D. Jakes, pastor of The Potter’s House megachurch in Dallas, Texas, founded by Jakes in 1996, was put on the spot during a theological roundtable Wednesday in regards to his beliefs about the Godhead and why, in some Christian circles, he is considered a “heretic.”

Despite the tension, MacDonald stuck with his decision and kept Jakes in line as a speaker.

During Round 2 of the Elephant Room, the Jakes finally broke down his view of the Trinity and also addressed him being labeled a “heretic.”

Jakes himself admitted that he once clung to a modalist position due to his background – he was converted and raised at an Oneness church. But he believes differently now, embracing the conservative evangelical doctrine of the Trinity: one God, three persons (though he said he’s not crazy about the word “persons.”)

Modalism, a 3rd-century teaching accredited to theologian Sabellius, purports that the members of the Trinity are not three distinct, eternally co-existing persons, but that instead God, a singular spirit, discloses Himself at different times in three modes – a doctrine espoused by Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal and United Pentecostal Church Internationaldenominations.

When asked a series of questions by Driscoll clarifying his doctrine, Jakes affirmed that there was “very little difference” between what he believed and what the Mars Hill
pastor believed.

(L-R) T.D. Jakes, James MacDonald and Mark Driscoll appear at "The Elephant Room" 2012 roundtable on Jan. 25, 2012.

In October Jakes tweeted to his followers the following message: “God brings us together so that He can dwell in the midst of our unity, the church must lift up a standard of unity.”

Silva, an ordained Southern Baptist Convention minister, also questioned Jakes by tweeting to The Potter’s House pastor : “@BishopJakes Which God are you talking about? The Triune God of the Bible, or the ficticious god of modalism? Which one do you believe in?”

It was then that a minor debate ensued between Jakes and Silva regarding his beliefs about the Holy Trinity, with Jakes tweeting: “@RealKenSilva Ken I believe in Jesus
Christ the only begotten of the Father. I believe in the Holy Spirit sent to the world by the Father!”

Jakes addressed the issue already in 2000 in an op-ed article in Christianity Today, in which he wrote: “I believe in one God who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I believe these three have distinct and separate functions—so separate that each has individual attributes, yet are one. I do not believe in three Gods.”

Criticism was hurled at MacDonald for inviting Jakes to be one of the seven pastors featured in The Elephant Room’s new round of conversations because of the Woman, Thou Art Loosed author’s perceived stance regarding the Holy Trinity.

MacDonald denied on his website that inviting Jakes to The Elephant Room was essentially an endorsement of the Texas minister’s doctrinal beliefs, as he had been accused. MacDonald, under the title “I do not agree that T.D. Jakes is a Modalist,” wrote in a September post on his website:

“I affirm the doctrine of the Trinity as I find it in Scripture. I believe this doctrine is revealed in the Bible and accurately expressed in historic confessionalism. T.D. Jakes website states that he believes God has existed eternally in three manifestations which is modalist language. I am looking forward to hearing him explain his position currently and how that may have changed from things he has said historically. … I believe T.D. Jakes shows immense humility by being
willing to step outside his own circles to interact with christian leaders and discuss his theology. … We are greatly honored that T.D. Jakes has agreed to participate.”

Tim Challies, one of the most influential and widely read evangelical Christian bloggers, also commented on the controversy recently.

While confessing that he does not know for certain if Jakes is a modalist, Challies wrote: “What is clear is that whatever Jakes believes about the Trinity, he has shown a continual reluctance to affirm a standard, time-proven creedal statement of trinitarian orthodoxy and that he has often used the language of modalism. This gives us valid cause for concern.”

As MacDonald and Challies also noted, the express purpose of The Elephant Room is to foster relationships with and open discussions among Christians who hold disagreements about Scripture.

During Wednesday’s “Elephant Room” conversation on the “majors” of Christian doctrine, Jakes explained where he falls on the issue.

“My father was a Methodist and my mother was a Baptist,” he explained. “I was raised in the Baptist church … but I didn’t really have a real committed experience with Christ until my father died. When my father died, I had a real experience with Christ, a real conversion with Christ and I had it in a Oneness church.”

The minister emphasized to Driscoll that the Pentecostal congregation he was referencing, which he pointed out was not a UPCI church, was home to “Christians who believe in Jesus Christ, believe he died, rose from the dead, is coming back again — all the same things you do.”

“How they describe and explain the Godhead in a traditional Oneness sense is very different than how traditional Trinitarians describe the Gospel. I was in that church for a number of years and raised in that church for a number of years,” Jakes said.

“As I began to progress, I began to understand that some of the dogma that I was taught in the Oneness movement was very dogmatic, very narrow and not the very best
description of how I now understand the Godhead,” he continued.

“My struggle as I was ordained in the Oneness church was in several passages – sometimes the doctrine fit, sometimes it doesn’t. When the doctrine becomes the primary thing, you force it into fitting in places where it doesn’t fit. I really at this point in my life don’t want to force my theology to fit in my denomination.”

Referencing Gen. 1:26, Luke 3:21-22, John 14:11 and other passages that he believes point to Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit as having unique distinctions, Jakes revealed: “That began to make me re-think some of my ideas and some of the things I was taught.”

(Photo: The Elephant Room/Alyssa Armour)

Bishop T.D. Jakes appears at “The Elephant Room” 2012 roundtable on Jan. 25, 2012.

“I got kind of quiet about it for a while. When you’re a leader and you’re in a position of authority sometimes you have to back up … for a minute and really think those things through.”

Driscoll, near the end of the discussion, pointedly asked Jakes if he believes the Bible is “the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God,” to which Jakes responded “absolutely.”

Driscoll then posed several other creedal questions in quick succession, to which Jakes responded in the affirmative:

“You believe there is one God, three persons: Father, Son and Spirit? You believe Jesus was fully God, fully man?”

“You believe he died on the cross in our place, for our sins?”

“You believe he bodily rose from death?”

“You believe that he is the judge of the living and the dead?”

“You believe that apart from Jesus there’s no salvation?”

Jakes told Driscoll once more that “there is very little difference between what I believe and what you believe.”

“For you, the issue between Trinitarianism and modalism at its essence is one God manifesting Himself successively in three ways, or one God, three persons, simultaneously existing eternally. Your best understanding now … would you say it’s ‘one God manifesting Himself in three ways’ or ‘one God in three persons?’” Driscoll asked.

“I believe that neither one of them totally get it for me,” Jakes revealed, yet expressing his agreement with the description of “one God, three persons.”

“Here is why I am there. I am not crazy about the word ‘persons’ … most people who know me know that … my doctrinal statement is really no different from yours except for the word ‘manifest’ instead of ‘person,’ which you describe as modalist and I describe as Pauline,” Jakes insisted, before quoting 1 Timothy 3:16.

The passage in the English Standard Version reads: “Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.”

“That is what Paul describes as a ‘mystery’ and I don’t think we should do that,” the bishop said. “Now, Paul is not a modalist, but he does not think it is robbery to the divinity of God to say God was ‘manifest’ in the flesh,” Jakes argued.

“When we start talking about that sort of thing, I think that it is important that we realize that there are distinctives between the Father and the working of the Son: the Father
didn’t bleed, the Father didn’t die, only in the person of Jesus Christ, coming back for us in the person of Jesus Christ … Jesus Christ has been with us, but only indwelt in the person of the Holy Spirit. We are baptized into the Body of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is consistent with my belief system.”

He added, “We are taught in our society that if we disagree within a movement, we leave … we sever. I still have fellowship associations, relationships and positions within and without Oneness and Trinitarian movements because I believe that until we bridge the gap between our thinking, and humble both sides and say ‘we’re both attempting to describe a God we love, that we serve and that we have not seen, and that we are viewing Him through the context of the Scriptures but that with a glass darkly’ – why should I fall out and hate and throw names at you when all that I know and understand, be it very Orthodox, is still through a glass darkly?”

Jakes acknowledged that he is considered a “heretic” in many communities, including Oneness and Trinitarian circles, yet it does not bother him, as he is more focused on the Body of Christ working as one unit in love, despite disagreements – the one thing, he asserted, that Christians have the power to do, but fail to accomplish.

“I think the time has come for us to be willing to take the heat to have a conversation, because if we do not do this and we continue to divide ourselves by ourselves and compare ourselves with ourselves, we do it at the expense of decreasing numbers of new Christians in our country. We have to mobilize,” he asserted.

“We have got to learn to talk to each other or we’re going to die,” the megachurch pastor insisted.

Please do read:

+++

Prior to Wednesday’s event, Pastor James MacDonald – also the moderator of the discuss

Bishop T. D. Jakes says he now embraces the Trinity Doctrine: T. D. Jakes was interviewed by pastor Mark Driscoll and pastor James MacDonald on January 27, 2012 at Harvest Bible Chapel (rootedinchrist.org)
In fact at Berean Perspective we have two articles that have been written dealing with what T. D. Jakes has said he believes concerning the doctrine of the Trinity. T. D. Jakes did not affirm the doctrine of the Trinity and he affirmed the Oneness perspective, thus we labeled him as being in the sect of Modalism. (Oneness Pentecostalism) We believe that Modalism (Oneness Pentecostalism, Jesus Only, United Pentecostal Church International) is a false teaching and has many false doctrines. (check out Oneness Pentecostalism) Now, after reading what was posted from the Baptist Press post (affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention) I am somewhat encouraged and at the same time still not at ease with what T. D. Jakes believes concerning the Trinity Doctrine.
TD Jakes Breaks Down the Trinity, Addresses Being Called a ‘Heretic’ By Nicola Menzie (trinityspeaks.wordpress.com)
T.D. Jakes is Heretical Concerning Modalism Whether he Believes it or Not (slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com)
Apprising Ministries continues documenting the sad slide of evanjellyfish deeper into apostasy as spiritual darkness grows.
There is a spiritual form of fascism now being perpetrated within the mainstream of the church visible. It began circa 1997 with the hatching in hell of the neo-liberal cult of the Emergent Church aka the Emerging Church and spreads its evil spores via Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM).
+
The use of the term manifestations is the language of classic modalism or Oneness Pentecostalism, not orthodox Christianity. Here’s what we do know, Jakes is with Higher Ground Always Abounding Assemblies, Inc. (HGAAA) where he is Vice Prelate.
+
Well the fact is, modalism—aka Sabellianism, after Sabellius—cannot be reconciled with the Biblical Trinitarian position; i.e. it’s a different god, which is no god at all (Isaiah 43:10; Galatians 4:8).
+

Yet another aspect of Modalistic Monarchianism / Modalism / Sabellianism is Patripassianism, which is the view that it was God the Father who became incarnate, suffered, died, and was resurrected. Patripassianism essentially teaches that God the Father became His own Son.

With all that said, Sabellianism, Modalism, Monarchianism (dynamic and modalistic), and Patripassianism are all unbiblical understandings of the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity. (Online source)
Changed Heart for @StevenFurtick & @BishopJakes: Conviction in The #ElephantRoom. Lessons for dads? (orangedad.com)
These guys are not the only Christian leaders who have been the object of jokes, sarcasm, or just outright accusations of “blasphemy” by me. I am a very, very judgmental person. I hide behind my crappy attitude by saying that it’s in the name of “sound doctrine.” God, heal my heart.
In The Elephant Room With Trevin Wax (garyware.me)
Elephant Room 2: Live-Blog Session 1 “With a Little Help from My Friends” + Elephant Room 2: Live-Blog Session 2 “Can’t Buy Me Love” + Elephant Room 2: Live-Blog Session 3 “Hard Day’s Night” + Elephant Room 2: Live-Blog Session 4 “Ticket to Ride” + Elephant Room 2: Live-Blog Session 5 “Come Together”: In what ways does being a minority worshiper hinder worship and service in the church? What churches are achieving success at breaking down these walls, and how? What do you see the other pastor doing better than your church does it?+ Elephant Room 2: Live-Blog Session 6 “Help” + Elephant Room 2: Live-Blog Session 7 “We Can Work It Out” + Elephant Room 2: Live-Blog Session 8 Speed Round
An Elephant Room Roundup (garyware.me)
Trevin Wax offers a summary reflection after his marathon effort posting notes on each Elephant Room session.
Carl Trueman notes that apparently all the authorisation a celebrity pastor needs is the affirmation of other celebrity pastors and that a few questions in a talk show format doesn’t really equate to a probing examination of someone’s theology.
Ed Stetzer offers his perspective.
Frank Turk observes that there are a few other elephants in Jakes’ living room which were rather conveniently ignored so everyone could feel the love.
Steven Furtick and Maturity (theologicalarsenal.wordpress.com)
When the question “Where do you see the Church in 20 years?” was posed Furtick quietly thought for a second, smiled and said “I’m really not old enough to speak to that… I’ve only been around for 31 years and I just don’t have the experience to answer that question.” He then went on to add that he is hopeful for the future of the Church and that he believes that we build the future, and that he would do his best to serve and honor God to the best of his abilities.
Jakes’ Small Beginnings (endtimeebookreviews.wordpress.com)
When he speaks of his humble beginnings, Jakes speak with much fervor and passion, as the congregation agrees with him and can totally relate to what he is talking about.
BEWARE! Rosebrough a No-Go, Bro! (justificationbygrace.com)
most of the church today has bought into the idea that challenging ANY idea is unloving and wrong. We adamantly reject this view. In fact, we think the essence of being loving is to point people to the truth, and away from lies and doctrines of demons. It is truth that sets people free. Lies cannot set people free.
Did I Really Want to Go to Elephant Room 2? (jonwellman.com)
E.R. 2.0 has run into its share of missteps, not the least of which was the invitation of T.D. Jakes.
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There is an opportunity to make much of Christ in every situation, and E.R. 2.0 is no exception. We’ll see what happens. However, I do fear for viewers and attenders who are not believers or who are easily swayed, and I pray for them. Some points of view are simply not doctrinal and need to be denounced, not discussed.
James MacDonald’s Elephant Room Conference – The Musical (slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com)
Here is a video from the gang at Wretched Radio about James MacDonald’s Elephant Room Conference, and it is put in a perspective that can only be done by Todd Friel and the crew.
Mark Driscoll And The Mars Hill Churches: When Discipline Becomes Control Becomes … ? (bigcircumstance.com)
Bill Kinnon understandably asks why that bastion of the neo-Reformed movement, the Gospel Coalition, hasn’t spoken out against Mars Hill. Driscoll is one of their council members, and they have had resignations before on grounds of doctrinal controversy, as Bill points out.
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On the surface, Mars Hill’s devotion to neo-Reformed theology still puts it in the Christian mainstream, which is why I can raise issues about whether the Gospel Coalition is doing anything about one of its Council members. But some cults began with orthodox Christian leaders who then deviated – David Berg of the Children of God could be a case in point here. Mars Hill cannot be regarded as unorthodox, and many of its currently contentious doctrines have been held by large numbers of Christians for a long time. Theologically, it would be wrong for Christians to call it a cult.

Mark Driscoll
Heretical Modalism and T.D. Jakes Doctrine On the Trinity (antagoniz.wordpress.com)
The United Pentecostal Church (UPCI) is the largest Oneness group in America. They officially deny the doctrine of the Trinity saying: In distinction to the doctrine of the Trinity, the UPCI holds to a oneness view of God. It views the Trinitarian concept of God, that of God eternally existing as three distinctive persons, as inadequate and a departure from the consistent and emphatic biblical revelation of God being one…Thus God is manifested as Father in creation and as the Father of the Son, in the Son for our redemption, and as the Holy Spirit in our regeneration.
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Again, notice the word “manifest,” which Jakes and the UPCI both use. In other words, the Son of God is the manifestation of the Father in the flesh. The Son is not eternal, nor pre-existent. Jesus is the Father and the Son: Father in his divinity and Son in his humanity. Hence, the Trinity is said to be a misunderstanding of the biblical teaching.
Thabiti Anyabwile addresses McDonald, Jakes and The Elephant Room (theexpositor.wordpress.com)
“Thabiti Anyabwile, Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church of Grand Cayman in the Grand Cayman Islands and a Council member with The Gospel Coalition, posts a tremedous article on The Gospel Coalition website titled Collateral Damage in the Invitation of T.D. Jakes to the Elephant Room, concerning the James McDonald/T.D. Jakes/Elephant Room issue and I think Pastor Anyabwile hits the nail right on the head!” writes the expositor.
Red Alert on Code Orange (preacherfrank.wordpress.com)
The presence of Jakes should be reason enough for the discerning Christian to avoid this event. Even if the rest of the speakers were true teachers, the presence of a false teacher pretty much ruins the whole thing.
How Tall is T.D. Jakes Height and Weight (celebrityheightandweight.com)
T.D. Jakes stands 6 feet and 3 inches tall and weighs 240 pounds. Born in South Charleston, West Virginia, T.D. Jakes opened his first church in a storefront in Montgomery, West Virginia in 1979. By 1982, the parish had grown enough that he was able to focus on his ministry full-time.
+ T.D. Jakes Videos
The Leader of the Episcopal Church is a Heretic (zwingliusredivivus.wordpress.com)
There’s not a driplet of Christian orthodoxy which permits her theory or accepts it as legitimate. Either access to God the Father is exclusively available through Christ or it isn’t. It’s either/or not both/and as the Episcopalian Arch-Heretic would have it (along with many pseudo-Christians these days).
Lot’s of Christians Can Only Handle ‘Milk’ (zwingliusredivivus.wordpress.com)
The inability of many to distinguish between good doctrine and bad, good biblical exegesis and bad, good theology and bad, is all too common these days (as in ancient times as well). That’s exactly why people like Mark Driscoll, Ted Haggard, TD Jakes, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, and the bevy of heretics presently passing themselves off as Christian teachers get away with it and aren’t ‘called out’ by either their churches or the Church at large.

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Jesus begotten Son of God #10 Coming down spirit or flesh seed of Eve

Posted on December 13, 2011. Filed under: Bible Study and Bible Reading, Christendom and Christianity, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Adam, Bloodline of David, Elohim, Food, From Heaven, God, God Son, God the Father, Jesus, Mediator, Messiah, Prophet, Seed of Eve, Son, Son of God, Virgin Mary, Wisdom |

The Anointed begotten Son of God

23. Coming down from heaven

When people say that Jesus came down from heaven they should know that all the good things come down from heaven.

“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning.¹ {Footnote: ¹See Mal. 3:6.} “(James 1:17 The Scriptures 1998+)

“This is not the wisdom coming down from above, but it is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.” (James 3:15 The Scriptures 1998+) + “But the wisdom from above is first clean, then peaceable, gentle, ready to obey, filled with compassion and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.” (James 3:17 The Scriptures 1998+)

Also the food we eat, like our daily bread comes from heaven.

Two distict different figures Jesus the son of God and his Father the Only One God -Image via Wikipedia

““This is the bread which comes down out of the heaven, so that anyone might eat of it, and not die. “I am the living bread which came down out of the heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever. And indeed, the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” The Yehud’im, therefore, were striving with one another, saying, “How is this One able to give us His flesh to eat?” יהושע therefore said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Ad’am and drink His blood, you possess no life in yourselves. “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood possesses everlasting life, and I shall raise him up in the last day. “For My flesh is truly food, and My blood is truly drink. “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood stays in Me, and I in him. “As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me shall live because of Me. “This is the bread which came down out of the heaven, not as your fathers ate the manna and died. He who eats this bread shall live forever.” “ (John 6:50-58 The Scriptures 1998+)

Jesus his flesh is as the bread which came down from heaven. As in our previous serious about language we see that several people also are caught in the “mad about my flat” language fallacy. As we showed the difference in meaning or understanding in different parts in the world, in the UK and the USA this means totally different things. They assume that “coming down from heaven” means that you were alive in heaven before you came down literally. But “mad about my flat” means “excited about my new apartment,” when English read this in their British environment and with British language habits in mind. So what does “coming down from heaven” mean in biblical idiom, which is Hebrew (hardly surprising) in style?

We may never forget we do have to read the Bible from a Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek view. Matthew being Hebrew spoke in his tradition and meant with such a saying that one’s origin is with God the Father (also Luke said that too!). It does not mean that one is a prehuman personage. Pre-human of course implies, if you think about it, non-human. And the whole point of the Messiah, Son of God, is that he is and must be a man, “the man mediator” of the lucidly clear statement of Paul in 1 Timothy 2:5: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Messiah Jesus,” the second Adam. Paul is keen to offset any opposing idea when he says “the spiritual man was not first” (1 Corinthians 15:46-48). The earthly man comes before the second Adam who is the Lord Messiah — not the other way round.

“For there is one Elohim,¹ and one Mediator between Elohim and men, the Man Messiah יהושע, {Footnote: ¹1 Cor. 8:6, Eph. 4:6, Mk. 12:29-34.} “ (1 Timothy 2:5 The Scriptures 1998+)

“The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, earthy; the second Man is the Master from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.” (1 Corinthians 15:46-48 The Scriptures 1998+)

24. First spirit and then flesh

In the 4^th century strange ideas entered Christendom and certain Christians did everything to become on good terms with the men in power.

In 2 Clement 5:9 the original system was being suppressed by the philosophical notion that Jesus was “first spirit and then flesh.” That shift, documented by 2 Clement 5:9, meant that the historical Jesus was being swallowed up by a different Jesus. As Martin Werner lamented, “the historical Jesus completely disappeared” behind a Gnostic counterfeit figure (Formation of Dogma, p. 298).

A prominent spokesman for the traditional view that God is three Persons in one Essence (“three Whos in one What” as James White and Hank Hanegraaff maintain) writes: “Our Lord Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh. God tabernacling in human form. When I say that I believe in the full deity of Christ, that is what I affirm. At his birth our Lord Jesus Christ did not begin to exist” (Rev. Ian Paisley). So much for Matthew and Luke and John!

Anthony Buzzard wonders: “Putting on our Berean hats, what do we find? The origin, coming into existence of the Son of God was as follows (so wrote Matthew in 1:18): Mary was found to be pregnant under the influence of “holy spirit” — the personal operational presence and power of the One God, the Father. The result of the biological miracle worked in Mary is laid out for us: “What is begotten, fathered, brought into existence in her is from the holy spirit” (1:20). Mary would have had no difficulty understanding this very plain, unifying information, and nor should we. We might even risk being struck dumb for not believing, as was Zacharias.”

25. Seed of Eve

To bring any of the persons God foresaw in existence He uses human beings who, today, all come from the same forefathers: Adam, Noach/Noah and Abraham. In the line of David and Abraham came Jesus also into existence or “begat”, following God’s marvellous promise that the Messiah would be the seed of Eve (Genesis 3:15)[1]. In the Old Testament is written in the future sense that Jehovah our God would raise up to us a prophet from among the people to whom He spoke for generations. The priest’s due from the people[2], also would be one as the writer, to whom many would and should listen. In Old Times Jehovah had said. “I shall raise up a prophet to them from among their brothers, one like you; and I will put My Words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. And it shall be, whoever will not listen to My Words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it at his hand.” (Deuteronomy 18:15-19 LITV)

““יהוה your Elohim shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brothers. Listen to Him, according to all you asked of יהוה your Elohim in Ḥorĕḇ in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of יהוה my Elohim, nor let me see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ “And יהוה said to me, ‘What they have spoken is good. ‘I shall raise up for them a Prophet like you out of the midst of their brothers. And I shall put My Words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. ‘And it shall be, the man who does not listen to My Words which He speaks in My Name, I require it of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:15-19 The Scriptures 1998+)

The seed of Eve would also bring the descendant by bloodline of David.

““And now, say to My servant Dawiḏ, ‘Thus said יהוה of hosts, “I took you from the pasture, from following the flock, to be ruler over My people, over Yisra’ĕl. “And I have been with you wherever you have gone, and have cut off all your enemies from before you, and have made you a great name, like the name of the great ones who are on the earth. “And I shall appoint a place for My people Yisra’ĕl, and shall plant them, and they shall dwell in a place of their own and no longer be afraid, neither shall the children of wickedness oppress them again, as at the first, even from the day I appointed rulers over My people Yisra’ĕl, and have caused you to rest from all your enemies. And יהוה has declared to you that He would make you a house. “When your days are filled and you rest with your fathers, I shall raise up your seed after you, who comes from your inward parts, and shall establish his reign. “He does build a house for My Name, and I shall establish the throne of his reign forever. “I am to be his Father, and he is My son. If he does perversely, I shall reprove him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.” (2 Samuel 7:8-14 The Scriptures 1998+)

God, in a precious moment of history, initiated the history of His unique Son. The Words spoken for many years could come into realization, could come the cause of the generation.[3] This was a Son through whom God expressly did not speak in previous times.

“Elohim, having of old spoken in many portions and many ways to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by the Son, whom He has appointed heir of all, through whom also He made the ages,¹ {Footnote: ¹John 1:3.} who being the brightness of the esteem and the exact representation of His substance, and sustaining all by the word of His power, having made a cleansing of our sins through Himself, sat down at the right hand of the Greatness on high, having become so much better than the messengers, as He has inherited a more excellent Name than them.” (Hebrews 1:1-4 The Scriptures 1998+)

The Elohim, Jehovah God spoke about a future because naturally since that prophesied Son was not then alive! Being not alive is also not being in existence, in life, in vigour.[4]

[1] (3:16) “And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her Seed, He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.” (Genesis 3:15 Complete Apostles’ Bible)

[2] ““And this is the priest’s right from the people, from those who bring an offering, whether it is bull or sheep: they shall give to the priest the shoulder, and the two cheeks, and the stomach;” (Deuteronomy 18:3 The Scriptures 1998+)

[3] See Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary for the word ‘begat’.

[4] Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary: in being

Preceding article: Jesus begotten Son of God #9 Two millennia ago conceived or begotten

To be continued: Brought into existence + The plot thickens

Interesting articles related to this subject:

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How is the manna that God rained down on the Israelites a type for the Eucharist (wiki.answers.com)
Manna was food (bread) from heaven which sustained the Israelites in the wilderness. The Bible emphasizes that God caused manna to appear at the right time and place to meet His people’s needs. Jesus assured the Jews that He, and not the wilderness food, was the true Bread from heaven that conferred eternal life on those who partook of it (John 6:30-58).
The Bread and the Wine are Better Than the Manna and the Water (thekingspresence.wordpress.com)
The manna was provided by God straight from heaven. Likewise, the water came out of the rock that followed the Israelites in the wilderness. Both were God’s provision for the Israelites and shadows of Christ.
John 6 (mybiblereadingplan.wordpress.com)
This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
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This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
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Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Soaked (refusingtotiptoe.com)
Coveting the nourishment of life from the Bread of Heaven. Satiated by the Manna. Permeating His existence.
What About Our Spiritual Life (verticalviewer.wordpress.com)
This Week’s Torah Portion – Bereishit (In The Beginning) (terri0729.wordpress.com)
The Hebrew for bread of life is ‘lechem chayim.’ Yeshua was even born in
the house of bread (Beit lechem) usually called Beth-lehem in English.
This special braided bread called challah is eaten on the Sabbath
(Shabbat) and holidays. To commemorate the double portion of manna
that fell the day before the Sabbath in the wilderness, traditionally, two
loaves are on the Shabbat table.

When we begin to understand Yeshua (Jesus) in His Hebraic, Jewish
cultural and Hebrew linguistic context, we not only understand the
Brit Chadashah (New Testament) more fully, but we are better equipped to
share the Word of God.

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Jesus begotten Son of God #1 Christmas and Christians

Posted on November 28, 2011. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Christendom and Christianity, Holy Scriptures, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua, Paganism | Tags: Assumption, Baal, Christendom and Christianity, Christian, Christmas, Elisabeth, Gabriel, God, Jesus, Jesus Christ, Jupiter-Puer, Mary, Miryam, Saturnalia, Solstice, Sungod, Surya, Tammuz, Tradition, Virgin Mary, Zacharias |

The Anointed begotten Son of God

1. Jesus and Christians

All Christians think they do know Christ Jesus. We as Christians can only do hope that those who want to become a Christian and those who call themselves Christian sincerely would be willing to investigate who that Jesus from Nazareth, who was called the Messiah, was.

When Jesus was somebody on this earth you can wonder how he came on to this earth and what he was before he came in the public picture. Then it becomes important as well to look at the teaching of that man that Christians say they are following. Do they really follow what that man said? Are those Christians really willing to listen to the words of that Master Teacher?

If you are saying you are or if you want to become a Christian you should really be eager to get to know Jesus Christ in full. Not just accepting what certain denominations say he is and was and shall be, but understanding what the Bible, the Holy Scriptures and the Word of God is saying about him.

2. Christmas

Child singers carrying a star with icon of a saint. Bucharest, 1842

Many churches celebrate the Advent in the month of December and on the 25th of December they celebrate the birth of the Saviour Jesus. Historically Jesus, or better Jeshua (which was his real name) was born from the virgin Mary, Maria or better Miryam/Miriam (to use the Hebrew name) in Bethlehem on the 17th October 4 before our Common Era (often indicated by -4 AD)

Most people would think “Christmas is Christian”, but we are afraid though this may be a general thinking it should really not be a Christian feast. And Christians should be able to find that there is something wrong with the so called birthday of Jesus.

According to the Holy Scriptures the angel Gabriel visited Zacharias during the course of Abia which we learn from 1 Chronicles 24:7-10, was the 8th of 24 courses during a 12 month year. Each group of priests (all except the most senior who were on duty more often) officiated in the Temple for two weeks every year. Zacharias’ turn of duty came when the 8th group (Abijah’s) attended; which was during weeks 15 and 16 after the start of the year, the month Nissan, which at our time would be in the time we call March or very early April.

The Word of God tells us that Elisabeth was conceived in early July and six months after Elisabeth, Mary was in conceived early January. A human pregnancy takes about 9 months; which brings us to an autumn date in late September/early October.

From the worldly books we also do know that the Romans wanted to count all their inhabitants late September/early October coinciding with the Week of Tabernacles, the most sacred week in the sacred calendar so that most people could make themselves free to go to the count offices for the census. The Week of Tabernacles is a memorial of Israel’s 40 years in the wilderness when the nation lived in ‘tabernacles’ (booths or tents) and when Jehovah took up residence in a ‘tabernacle’ which was pitched in the centre of the camp. (Leviticus 23:23-44)

3. Leitmotiv

When you also carefully follow the Bible you shall be able to find a leitmotiv. When you see that the thread is the Salvation you shall also be able to notice how God guided His people through history and how prophets predicted many things. Those divinations can be clearly seen as signs for us to understand and to follow. When you look at those prophecies and the timing it all counts up and every day becomes of a certain importance. As such we can consider one occasion as the low-level memorial of Tabernacles and than we do find the high-level reality of Tabernacles when Jeshua the Son of the Highest, the Messiah, took up residence in a frail human body. In other words, God ‘tabernacled‘ with mankind giving them the protector in the person of His Son Jeshua – Jesus Christ!

4. History

The Free Church of Scotland minister Alexander Hyslop (1807 – 1865) in his most famous book The Two Babylons: Papal worship Revealed to be the worship of Nimrod and His wife exposed the falsehood of the Roman Catholic Church. He was not afraid to use also the historical, read non theological writings and look at the historical facts. From those we can find out in which time Mary and Joseph went to Bethlehem for the census and when the three wise men or magicians went to follow the star to look for this new born King of kings.

Hyslop saw the many pagan rites which were introduced by the Roman Catholic Church and claimed therefore that is was a Babylonian mystery cult, and pagan. On the other hand he thought Protestants worshipped the true Jesus and the true God. He contended that Roman Catholic religious practices are actually pagan practices grafted onto true Christianity during the reign of Constantine, but then he also saw what was happening in Protestantism and how people did want to keep certain traditions. At this point, he alleged, the merger between the Roman state religion and its adoration of the mother and child was transferred to Christianity, merging Christian characters with pagan mythology. The Goddess was renamed Mary, and Jeshua or Jesus (Hail Zeus) was the renamed Jupiter-Puer, or “Jupiter the Boy”.

Hyslop wrote: “The festivals of Rome are innumerable; but five of the most important may be singled out for elucidation -viz., Christmas-day, Lady-day, Easter, the nativity of St. John, and the Feast of the Assumption. Each and all of these can be proved to be Babylonian.” (The Two Babylons, by Alexander Hyslop, page 91) and “… within the Christian Church no such festival as Christmas was ever heard of till the third century, and that not till the fourth century was far advanced did it gain much observance. How, then, did the Roman Church fix on December 25th as Christmas-day? Why, thus: Long before the fourth century, and long before the Christian era itself, a festival was celebrated among the heathen, at that precise time of the year, in honour of the birth of the son of the Babylonian queen of heaven; and it may fairly be presumed that in order to conciliate the heathen, and to swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity, the same festival was adopted by the Roman Church, giving it only the name of Christ. This tendency on the part of the Christians to meet Paganism half-way was very early developed … Upright men strove to stem the tide, but in spite of all their efforts, the apostasy went on, till the Church, with the exception of a small remnant, was submerged under Pagan superstition. That Christmas was originally a Pagan festival is beyond all doubt. The time of the year, the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin. In Egypt, the son of Isis, the Egyptian title for the queen of heaven, was born at this very time, ‘about the time of the winter solstice.’” (Ibid. page 93)

Non-religious, but historical books and encyclopaedic works, often saw the faulty claims for the birthday of the person who was born at Bethlehem, lived at Nazareth, did many miraculous things, was brought before the court of Pilate and brought to dead on a wooden stake. Though even the Catholic Encyclopaedia 1911 edition agreed that “Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the church … the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt.”

The Chambers Encyclopaedia 1908 Edition Vol.111 page 222, in her article on Christmas writes: “It is nevertheless almost certain that the 25th of December cannot be the nativity of the Saviour, for it is then the height of the rainy season in Judaea, and shepherds could hardly be watching their flocks by night in the plains … Not casually or arbitrarily was the festival of the nativity celebrated on the 25th of December. One of the principal causes that co-operated in fixing this period was that almost all the heathen nations regarded the winter solstice as the turning point of the year – the beginning of the renewed life and activity of the powers of nature, and of the gods who were merely the symbolic personifications of these. In more northern countries this fact must have made itself peculiarly palpable – hence the Celts and Germans, from the oldest times, celebrated the season with the greatest festivities. At the winter solstice the Norsemen held their great Yule-feast in commemoration of the fiery sun-wheel, and believed that during the twelve nights from the 25th December to the 6th January they could trace the personal movements and interferences on earth of their great deities, Odin, Beretha, etc. Many of the beliefs and usages of the old Germans, and also of the Romans, relating to this period, passed over from heathenism to Christianity, and have partly survived to the present day.”

5. Agreement to tradition

The first Christians having become an object of hatred, agreed in the 4th century CE to accept the Greek and Roman symbols for their gods and to let Christian feasts fall together with Heathen feasts.

In the 1970 edition page 538, article on Christmas, Chambers Encyclopaedia wrote: “There is no authoritative tradition as to the day or month of Christ’s birth … The winter solstice was regarded as the birthday of the sun and at Rome a pagan festival of the nativity of ‘sol invictus’ was introduced by the Emperor Aurelian on 25th December 274. The church, unable to stamp out this popular festival, spiritualised it as the feast of the Nativity of the Sun of Righteousness. When Christianity spread northwards it encountered a similar pagan festival also held at the winter solstice – the great Yule feast of the Norsemen. Once again Christmas absorbed heathen customs. From the various sources came the Yule log, the Christmas tree introduced into England from Germany and first mentioned in 1789.”

Not only Greek and Roman but in the West also a lot of Germanic heathen element have entered Christendom. We can find many of the heathen feast Jul or Yule, a Nordic name for that was celebrated in the middle of January. There were at least two such feasts or offerings every year in Scandinavia, one in midsummer and one in midwinter.
The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.” Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.(Increase Mather, A Testimony against Several Prophane and Superstitious Customs, Now Practiced by Some in New England (London, 1687), p. 35. See also Stephen Nissenbaum, The Battle for Christmas: A Cultural History of America’s Most Cherished Holiday, New York: Vintage Books, 1997, p. 4 + Nissenbaum, p. 3.)

Though several Christians would not listen to famous scholars and historians revealing amazing facts they could take their lessons from the Bible and make their own analysis from what is given as data in the Holy Scriptures.
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To be continued

Advent & Christmas (deaconjohn1987.wordpress.com)
Love of the Babe of Bethlehem, who was born to redeem us, caused
Catholics, in centuries long gone by, to introduce into our churches
a representation of the crib, the Divine Babe, The Blessed Mother,
St. Joseph, and the Shepherds. St. Francis of Assisi deserves the
credit of making this practice very popular. His zeal prompted him to
place at Graccio a representation of the cave of Bethlehem. His plan
permitted the Faithful vividly to grasp the story of Bethlehem and to
realize the poverty and suffering of our Saviour in the bleak, cold
stable where He was born. The plan has spread to churches in all
parts of the world.
Cardinal: Pray to Mary, who is our teacher (ivarfjeld.wordpress.com)
Since we have direct access to God through Jesus the Messiah, you make a mockery of Him, when you do not listen to His instructions.
Jewish Miriam was a sinner, a created being. Those who worship created beings, have been lead into an idolatrous life. If such people to not repent, they will all perish. Those you will find in the Kingdom of Heaven, have all lived by faith in Him.
The Savior of the World was born by a Virgin! (ivarfjeld.wordpress.com)
The question of whether or not Jesus’ mother Mary was actually a virgin, or if it even matters if she was, is causing tremendous controversy in many parts of what calls itself “The Christian World” today.
Often we see that Christmas has not much to do any more with what some consider the reason to celebrate.
Last night (innerdialect.wordpress.com)
through Christmas and New Year. Maybe all the wars they rumor will come. The earthquakes and floods,. Rapture even. Dear Lord, dear heaven, all the things we grumble about : prices and petrol, pollution and naughty kids running up and down the stairs…

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Another way looking at a language #6 Set apart

Posted on November 22, 2011. Filed under: Bible Study and Bible Reading, Christendom and Christianity, Ecclesia | Tags: AENT, Aramaic-Hebrew, Baal, Church, Circe, God, Greek, Greek language, Hebrew language, Helios, Jesus, Language, Lord, Paleo-Hebrew, Restored Names Bibles, Samaritans, Syriac, Tetragrammaton |

Another way looking at a language

Ancient Hebrew inscriptions - Jewish Encyclopedia

"I am YHWH (YAHUWAH) your Almighty Loving El YA..Have no foreign gods before your face!" Shemoth / Ex 20:2-3

18. The Church

The second biggest teaching in Scripture is that our Creator and Saviour are building a “Set Apart Nation” (“church” never occurs in Scripture!) never heard of in modern Christianity before, called “YAsarel” (Almighty YAH Reigns)! It may be a chock to some not to find anywhere that there shall be build for God a “Roman Holy Catholic Church”.

Church is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the Greek “ekklesia.” The Greek word means “a calling out,” “a meeting,” or “a gathering.” Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation.

The origin of the word “church” is kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. The meaning is a building (the house of Kurios, or Lord). In ancient times there were the houses to pray to Baal. The temples of the Lord (not our God, but Baal) were known as House of Kurios or the church, and therefore we should try to avoid the use of that word.

Circe Offering the Cup to Odysseus. Oldham Art Gallery, Oldham, U.K. 1891

Dictionaries give the origin of “church” as the Anglo-Saxon root, circe. Circe was the goddess-daughter of Helios, the sun-deity. The word circe is related to “circus,” “circle,” “circuit,” and “circulate.”

Circe ( /ˈ s ɜr s iː /; Greek Κίρκη Kírkē “falcon”) the ‘loveliest of all immortals,’ according to Homer‘s Odyssey, was originally a Greek goddess whose name was written and pronounced as Kirke and was the daughter of Helios, the god of the sun, and Perse, an Oceanid, and the sister of Aeetes, the keeper of the Golden Fleece, Perses, and Pasiphaë, the Wife of King Minos and mother of the Minotaur. The word “church” is known in Scotland as kirk, in Germany as Kirche, and in Belgium and Holland (the Netherlands) as kerk and as such indicating to the Germanic godess Kerke or Kirke.

The unity for the church is the unity of the believers who can come together to meet in ecclesiae. Their “church” should be the ecclesia of the community of believers in the Most High Elohim Hashem Jehovah YHWH and in His Son Jeshua, known to most as Jesus, the Messiah or Maschiach/Mashiyach.

19. Original-language Scriptures

There are 13,000 “Original-language Scriptures” in AbraUW (Paleo-Hebrew), IbraUW (Aramaic-Hebrew), Syriac, Coptic and Greek which are 50-75% trustworthy and basically agree. Some Aramaic words are still in use by many churches. We are all familiar with the words “Alleluia”, “Amen”, “Abba”, “Hosanna” and “Sabaoth” which are still in common usage in the western liturgy. Sometime in the last two centuries BCE the Samaritan alphabet began to diverge from the Jewish one. Unlike the Jews, the Samaritans have continued to use this script for writing both Hebrew and Aramaic texts until the present day. A comparison of the earliest Samaritan inscriptions and the medieval and modern Samaritan manuscripts clearly indicates that the Samaritan scriptis a static script which was used mainly as a book hand.

The Paleo-Hebrew script has been recently revived for specific use in several Sacred Name Bibles: including Zikarown Say’fer, The Besorah and the Halleluyah Scriptures. These translations use it for writing the Tetragrammaton and other divine names, incorporating these name written in this script in the midst of the English text.

The Aramaic English New Testament (AENT) is considered by some the most definitive Aramaic to English translation that has come forth in nearly 2,000 years, while other see also other renewed translations like The Word of YAH -The Kings Covenant also translated from the Original Scriptures. We shall use this year the 4rth Edition of the AENT which has as the 3rd edition of 2010 the Aramaic text in Hebrew letters with modern vowel pointing so making it easier to follow. It comes directly from Aramaic…

Continues

Please do find more:

The only Chair of both Hebrew and Aramaic world-wide is at Leiden University’s Department of Hebrew and Aramaic. Bachelor in Hebrew and Aramaic Studies, Middle Eastern Studies (with Hebrew) or a related study (see http://www.mastersinleiden.nl). + MA in Hebrew and Aramaic Languages and Culture > Hebrew and Aramaic Languages and Cultures

In the Aramaic Languages and Cultures specialisation, you will explore various Aramaic languages and literatures, including Syriac, Targumic Aramaic and Imperial Aramaic. You have the possibility to study various Aramaic languages, both individually and against the background of their 3000-year history.
+ a.o.: The historical grammar of Hebrew and the development of the Tiberian tradition, which also lies at the heart of Modern Hebrew

With effect from September 2012, this programme will be offered as a specialisation within the Classics and Ancient Civilisations programme.

Restored Name King James Bible on line

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You can find the inspirational articles for this series:

Accuracy, Word-for-Word Translation Preferred by most Bible Readers

Idol Worship (Jewish Encyclopedia)
All idolatrous cults are condemned by the Biblical insistence on worship of Yhwh only. The Decalogue begins with the command to reverence the one true God and to recognize no other deities. On this theme the Pentateuch dilates from every point of view, and the efforts of the Prophets were chiefly directed against idolatry and against the immorality connected with it. To recognize the true God meant also to act according to His will, and consequently to live a moral life. The thunderings of the Prophets against idolatry show, however, that the cults of other deities were deeply rooted in the heart of the Israelitish people, and they do not appear to have been thoroughly suppressed until after the return from the Babylonian exile. There is, therefore, no doubt that Jewish monotheism was preceded by a period of idolatry; the only problem is that which concerns the nature of the cults (comp. the articles Adrammelech; Anammelech; Asherah; Ass-Worship; Astarte Worship Among the Hebrews; Atargatis; ba-al-and-ba-al-worship” href=”http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2236-ba-al-and-ba-al-worship” target=”_blank”>Ba’al and Ba’al-Worship; Baal-peor; Baal-zebub; Baal-zephon; Bamah; Calf, Golden; Calf-Worship; Chemosh; Dagon; High Place; Moloch; Star-Worship; Stone and Stone-Worship; Tammuz; Teraphim; and Witchcraft).

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Anther way looking at a language #1 New Year, Books and Words (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Another way looking at a language #4 Ancient times (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Another way looking at a language #5 Aramic, Hebrew and Greek (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
The Bible and names in it (christadelphians.wordpress.com)
Hebrew (earthpages.wordpress.com)
Classical Hebrew is the ancient Semitic language of the Hebrews in which the Torah was written. A modern form is used in synagogues, but Jewish prayer and study usually involves classical Hebrew. Both old and new forms of this ancient language are used by the Samaritans.
^UR Targum Job from Qumran – 4QtgJob Tar (rosary2007.wordpress.com)
Targum Job from Qumran is an Aramaic translation of the Hebrew book of job found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The Language Of The Bible (vidblogdotcom.wordpress.com)

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Another way looking at a language #5 Aramic, Hebrew and Greek

Posted on November 20, 2011. Filed under: Bible Study and Bible Reading, Christendom and Christianity, Christendom en Christenheid, Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua, Naam van God | Tags: Adonai, Apostle, Aramaic, Aramaic language, Babylonian Captivity, Bible, Chreston, Chrestos, Christ, Christos, Christus, Dead Sea Scrolls, Eloi Eloi lema sabactani, Gabbata, Golgata, Greek, Greek language, Hebrew language, Holy Scriptures, Iesou, Jehovah, Jesus, Jewish Nation, Jews, Kurios, Language, Lord, Master, Mesopotamia, Name of God, New Testament, Passion, Peshitta, Peter, Phoenician, Pupil, Second Temple, Sheol, Son of God, Tabita, Tenakh, YaHuWah, Yahweh, Zeus |

Another way looking at a language

Ancient Hebrew inscriptions - Jewish Encyclopedia

13. Aramaic

Aramaic is to believed to be originated in what is modern-day Syria. Between 1000 and 600 BCE it became extremely widespread, spoken from the Mediterranean coast to the borders of India. Its script, derived from Phoenician and first attested during the 9th century BCE, also became extremely popular and was adopted by many people, both with or without any previous writing system. Despite Hellenistic influences, especially in the cities, that followed the conquests of Alexander the Great of Macedonia, Aramaic remained the vernacular of the conquered peoples in the Holy Land, Syria, Mesopotamia and the adjacent countries. It ceded only to Arabic in the ninth century A.D., two full centuries after the Islamic conquests of Damascus in 633, and Jerusalem in 635. Aramaic has never been totally supplanted by Arabic. Aramaic had been adopted by the deported Israelites of Transjordan, exiled from Bashan and Gilead in 732 B.C. by Tiglath-Pileser III, the tribes of the Northern Kingdom by Sargon II who took Samaria in 721, and the two tribes of the Southern Kingdom of Judah who were taken into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587. Hence, the Jews who returned from the Babylonian Captivity brought Aramaic back with them to the Holy Land, and this continued to be their native tongue throughout the lifetime of Eshoo Mshikha.

Aramaic was destined to become Israel’s vernacular tongue; but before this could come about it was necessary that the national independence should be destroyed and the people removed from their own home. These events prepared the way for that great change by which the Jewish nation parted with its national tongue and replaced it, in some districts entirely by Aramaic, in others by the adoption of Aramaized-Hebrew forms.

The oldest literary monument of the Aramaization of Israel would be the Tarcum, the Aramaic version of the Scriptures, were it not that this received its final revision in a somewhat later age. The Targum, as an institution, reaches back to the earliest centuries of the Second Temple. Ezra may not have been, as tradition alleges, the inaugurator of the Targum; but it could not have been much after his day that the necessity made itself felt for the supplementing of the public reading of the Hebrew text of Scripture in the synagogue by a translation of it into the Aramaic vernacular. The tannaitic Halakah speaks of the Targum as an institution closely connected with the public Bible-reading, and one of long-established standing. But, just as the translation of the Scripture lesson for the benefit of the assembled people in the synagogue had to be in Aramaic, so all addresses and homilies hinging upon the Scripture had to be in the same language. Thus Jesus and his nearest disciples spoke Aramaic and taught in it (see Dalman, “Die Worte Jesu”). (Jewish Encyclopedia)

When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in those remains of the library of a Jewish sect from around the turn of the Era, many compositions in Aramaic also provided the best evidence for Palestinian Aramaic of the sort used by Jesus and his disciples. They preached the Gospel and the scribes recorded the Scriptures. The New Testamenthas been preserved in this sacred, scribal language since the Apostolic Age. The whole Bible was originated in this language and therefore it is best to look also at these sources because they lay at the base.

11th century Hebrew Bible with targum, perhaps...

MS in Hebrew and Aramaic on vellum, Iraq, first half of 11th c., 8 ff., 39x33 cm, 2 columns, (25x25 cm), 23 lines in a large Hebrew square book script, by a scribe perhaps originating from the Maghreb (North Africa probably Tunisia). - Image via Wikipedia

Vast compilations in Aramaic (in Western and Eastern Aramaic dialects) could be found in synagogues and where used in the Judaic academies by the rabbis. Jewish law was transmitted, commented, and debated in the Jewish academies by the rabbis and their disciples. The records of their deliberations constitute the two Talmuds: that of the land of Israel and the much larger Babylonian Talmud.

The Old Aramaic Jesus used is considered dead because it ceased to be used as a literary language in the 13th Century. The old form exists only as a liturgical language but there are still people who speak more modern forms of it. The Peshitta Text of the Holy Scriptures is in the dialect of northwest Mesopotamia as it evolved and was highly perfected in Orhai, once a city-kingdom, later called Edessa by the Greeks, and now called Urfa in Turkey. The large colony of Orhai Jews, and the Jewish colonies in Assyria in the kingdom of Adiabene whose royal house had converted to Judaism, possessed most of the Bible in this dialect, the Peshitta Tenakh.

Modern Aramaic, in its various dialects, is spoken in modern-day Iraq, Iran, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, and the various Western countries to which the native speakers have emigrated, including Russia, Europe, Australia and the United States.

14. Greek

Greek was only spoken by a few in and around Jerusalem at the time of Jesus so it was more important to get the Words from God and the teachings from Christ Jesus been spread in a language most people understood in the by necessity a multi-lingual land. Names of persons, clearly of Aramaic origin, composed of the word bar which means son were transcribed into the later Greek writings giving names as Bariona, Barabba. In both Syriac and Hebrew the spellings between Abiud and Abiur are so close that during translation into Greek the second name could have been dropped mistakenly.

In addition to the forms of the words borrowed from the Greek, it is also important to determine their meanings; for some of these borrowed terms acquired in the mouth of the Jews a deeper religious and moral sense; e.g., γεωμετρία, a certain norm for the interpretation of Scripture (but compare GemaṬria); βῆλον, Latin velum, “heaven”; σχολαστικός, “teacher of the Law”; στρατμγός, “soldier” in general; σύβολον, “covenant” and “wedding present”; τόμος, “book of the Law.” The Jewish usage is sometimes supported by the Septuagint and by the New Testament; e.g., κατήγωρ, “Satan”; πάνδοκος, “whore”; βλασφημία, “blasphemy.” These semasiological differences justify one in speaking of a rabbinic Greek. (Jewish Encyclopedia)

Some treat “split words” as a distinctive subsection of mistranslations. Sometimes it appears that a word in Aramaic with two (or more) distinct and different meanings appears to have been interpreted in the wrong sense, or even translated both ways in different documents.

A sheolstone in Aramaic. Basalt funeral stele bearing an Aramaic inscription, ca. 7th century BC. Found in Neirab or Tell Afis (Syria).

Capharnaum translated, although with some difficulty, from the form Kafar Nahum, the Village of Nahum, or also the name Aceldama, as found in the Book of Acts 1:19, which unites two words Haquel dema, which is “Camp of Blood.” We also find the names of the women transferred: Marta (Luke 10:38), and Tabita/Tabitha (Acts 9:36) which mean respectively: Madame (or Woman), and Gazelle. (These were well-known and frequently used names in the times of Jesus, taken from Aramaic.) The name of Peter — Cefa — corresponds to the Aramaic form of Kefa which means Rock. The name Golgata (Matthew 27:33), and Gabbata (John 19:13) recalling the accounts of the Passion, are derived from two words with the sense of “(place of) the skull” and “the elevated place.” Some names indicating situations or actions where later in their translation understood as certain places sometimes away from this earth, as e.g. sheol or hell which was a place where the death were burned and is now considered by many Christians as a place of torment by fire.

Other words of interest in Greek translations from Aramaic origin are: Effeta or Effata (to open), Talita Qum (Arise little child), Abba (אבא), (Papa/Father). Also the Aramaic last words of Jesus dying at the stake “Eloi Eloi lema sabactani” were in fact the beginning of Psalm 22, spoken by Jesus in Aramaic, and faithfully written down by the Evangelists in Greek. It is possible that the Evangelists wished to preserve and hand down through their writings some words certainly spoken by Jesus, words which the Early Christians (since they spoke Aramaic) faithfully remembered.

We should be alert when somebody or something is jumping the shark and be on the lookout for those who like to make from the Bible a television show or an entertainment form. 63 percent, from the questioned people for the survey, believe the language should be simple for anyone to understand while 14 percent say the language should be meant more for people who have a lot of experience with the Bible. 40 percent prefer more formal language while 26 percent say should be more informal. 22 percent want language more for casual reading while 44 percent say it should be designed more for in-depth study.

Having a new translation is always some tricky thing because than words have to be chosen to be understood according what they mean. Therefore translators try to find the most accurate form though sometimes there does not exist a singular word for the term. the translators are also confronted with more than one neologism ( /n iː ˈ ɒ l ə dʒ ɪ z əm /; from the Greek νέο-, néo-, “new”, and λόγος, lógos, “speech”, “utterance”) and should be wondering either to use that new word or newly coined term, or phrase, that may sometimes still be in the process of entering common use, but has not yet been accepted into mainstream language. Neologisms are often directly attributable to a specific person, publication, period, or event. For such up-to-date hype translations like the Bikers Bible, Hikers Bible or Prisoners bible we always do have to be very careful, and we even would advice not to use them.

As translators try to cross the globe and two millennia, fully accomplishing word-for-word translations that are easy to understand, is not always possible. It is also a pity that within the years several words were taken into one word so that slight differences disappeared. From many bible translations it is not clear any more if there is spoken of an ordinary pupil or a special (chosen) pupil, a direct pupil of Jesus, a pupil (disciple) Jesus and of other pupils, a send messenger or an ordinary apostle (MalakiYA (Messenger of YA, sn- Apostle), a set apart (kadosh), a sent one (Shlichim) or one of the seventies. For this it is very interesting to go back to the Hebrew and Aramaic because there we can find the different words which in itself give a clear indication about whom it is.

15. Adonai, Lord

The meaning of an entire verse can easily be altered by a translation, for example; the Greek “Kurios” also at times spelled kyrios or kuros, Greek κύριος is often rendered as the Latin Dominus or “Lord“, however there is both “LORD” (the Father) and “Lord” (the Son), which the translator must choose and Kurios. The Kurios would be either the father, or if he was dead, brothers an uncle or relative would be the Kurios. However the God the Father (Yahuwhah – YHWH – Jehovah) often substituted with Adonai (my Lord) and the Son of God (Yahushua/ Yehsua – Jeshua) are clearly distinguished in Aramaic, there is no confusion about the speaker or who is being addressed. The Kurios or Curios was he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding. As a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence it was also given to people who were above somebody else, or the title used by servants to greet their master.

You should have a look in the preface of your “church bibles” and see if they even admit to substituting the Hebrew (from right to left) “hwhy” or “YHWH” (from left to right) YAHUWAH‘s Name with “the LORD” or “God”. Now read what happens to those who so arrogantly change His Word in Revelation 22:18-19. “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.” (Revelation 22:18-19 NIV) We being part of every man that can hear the words of the prophecy of the book of John his revelations and of all the other Books brought together in what we call the Book of books, the Bible. We should take the warning for, adding to these things or for taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy serious. We would not want to see God adding to him the plagues that are written in this book, or having God taken away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

“AHleleuYAH” means “Praise be to YAH.” See how “Israel” could never be “El YAH’s chosen people” because the blaspheme His Sacred Eternal Name daily by hiding it!

"I am YHWH (YAHUWAH) your Almighty Loving El YA..Have no foreign gods before your face!" Shemoth / Ex 20:2-3

Even if your pastor does not fear taking away Gods Name or fears speaking out the Most Holy Name, you yourself may not be afraid to use Gods Name regularly. When you got to know the Name of the Most High you should use him. Be careful not intentionally to ‘forget’ him or not using the Name. Don’t lose your eternal life over intentionally doing of this great sin of blasphemy and destruction! So either use Jehovah or Yahweh/Jahwe or both, but use the Name people can take as the Name of the Only One God. In case we are not sure about the pronunciation of Yahuwah or Jehovah (the three syllables) it is always better to use the two syllable name, which may come from the expression that Jehovah may have everything “Ya Have”, using a shortened version of YHWH’s full Name, like Yah in HalleuYah e.g.. So if you do not like to use the full Name perhaps you still can like to use one of the shortened ones “YaHave” (Yahweh”) or “Yah” instead none. Some Richards also like to be called Bill, or Rogers do not mind to be called Bob. We can only do hope God would not mind calling Him such or so, because we are not sure how it is pronounced or because in our mother tongue or native language we use such or such sounds. so much of our way of saying a name or pronouncing a name shall depend on the region and custom. But we do have to be careful not holding strong to an institution or usage because of tradition. As soon as we know better we should adapt to the new found truth or new insight. All our life we shall have to learn and sometimes we do have to change practice. Though people are often in a rut, believers should try not to get set in one’s way but to be open for adaption to the teachings from the Word of God, the Bible, and should overcome habits and compete for the Truth. We should strive not to thingummy or keep to a “whatchacallit”. For the One who Created everything is not a “what’s-his-name”. He has given His Name for His People to use it, therefore we should use it and prefer to put the title of the heathen name “Lord” (Baal) aside.

YHWH

-YAHUWAH (the 7 English letters are also representative of eternal meanings). We may not “vanatize” YAHUWAH’Holy Name with the blasphemous “cover over” of the word “LORD”, “God”, “Lord God!”

16. God His son

So also for the son of God we should try to use his proper name. We should go back returning to “believing upon His Name” (John-YAHUWcanon 1:12), that is YAHUW-husha, which means “YAHUW, He who will save”! and not referring to Zeus by using “Hail Zeus” or Iesou, in English Jesus or in Dutch Jesus and/or Jezus. Mashiyach or in Hebrew Mashiach and in Greek Christos is rendered in the King James as “Anointed” in Psalms 2:2, and as “Messias” in Daniel 9:25-26. It is the Sacred Name for the Son of YHVH or YHWH. Messiah or Mashiyach and Chaciyd which is used in Psalms 16:10 or only titles and not names for the Son of God. The word Christos was far more acceptable to the pagans who were worshiping Chreston and Chrestos. According to The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, the word Christos was easily confused with the common Greek proper name Chrestos, meaning “good.” According to a French theological dictionary, it is absolutely beyond doubt that Christus and Chrestus, and Christiani and Chrestiani were used indifferently by the profane and Christian authors of the first two centuries A.D. The word Christianos is a Latinism, being contributed neither by the Jews nor by the Christians themselves. The word was introduced from one of three origins: the Roman police, the Roman populace, or an unspecified pagan origin. Its infrequent use in the New Testament suggests a pagan origin.

According to Realencyclopaedie, the inscription Chrestos is to be seen on a Mithras relief in the Vatican. According to Christianity and Mythology, Osiris, the sun-deity of Egypt, was reverenced as Chrestos. In the Synagogue of the Marcionites on Mount Hermon, built in the third century A.D., the Messiah’s title is spelled Chrestos. According to Tertullian and Lactantius, the common people usually called Christ Chrestos.

17. Lord

In older versions of the King James Version of the Old Testament we still can find the name Jehovah, but in later versions more and more the Name became exchanged with three different Hebrew words as lord; however, it does so with a careful use of upper case letters to let the reader know which word is in the original texts. When the King James Version translates the Hebrew word for Jehovah as lord, it uses LORD in all capitals. When the King James Version translates the a special Hebrew word for supreme lord, adownai, as lord, it uses Lord with only the “L” in the upper case. Lastly, when the King James Versions translation of the general Hebrew word for lord, adown, as lord, it does so without any use a capital letter at all. A few years ago several translations just placed “lord” so that nobody could get the difference. Aware of the fault of letting the Name of God out of the Bible a few years ago we got the Restored Name King James Bible; Proper Name Version of the King James Bible and Sacred Name King James Version where again we could find the Name of God on most places.
When the decision was made to undertake the task of editing the King James Version, the fact that it was not a unique work was taken into account. The main sources that were used for editing the most recent version were: The Holy Name Bible, by the Scripture Research Association; The Scriptures, by the Institute for Scripture Research; The ExeGesis, by Herb Jahn; and the New Englishman’s Hebrew Concordance, by George V. Wigram.

Please do find more:

With effect from September 2012, this programme will be offered as a specialisation within the Classics and Ancient Civilisations programme.

Continues
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Restored Name King James Bible on line

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You can find the inspirational articles:

Accuracy, Word-for-Word Translation Preferred by most Bible Readers

You Say Tomato

Don’t Quote Me—But I Think Jesus Is Pissed!

Disney, I Can See the Cracks

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Salvation, trust and action in Jesus #3 as a Christian

Posted on August 8, 2011. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Christendom and Christianity, Ecclesia, Jesus Christ Jeshua the Messiah Jahushua | Tags: Avoiding others, Being Baptised, Being in Christ, Christendom and Christianity, Church, Discipleship, Following Christ, God, Gods Law, Helping, Jesus, Jesus Christ, Judeo-Christian, Judeo-Christian values, Praying, preaching, Reading the Bible, Talking to God, Ten Commandments, Yahshua |

Salvation, trust and action in Jesus

3. If you have received Jesus Christ as your Saviour, as a Christian you should:

Keep doing the things as Jesus did them.
“Teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:20 KJBPNV)
Keep to the Judeo Christian values and Gods Law.
Moses with the tablets of the Ten Commandments, painting by Rembrandt (1659) (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Keep to the commandments of God and to the commandments of His son Jesus.
“But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered unto you.” (Romans 6:17 KJBPNV)
“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” (1 John 5:2-3 KJBPNV)
“And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. For many deceivers have entered into the world, who confess not that Yahshua the Messiah has come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have worked, but that we receive a full reward. Whoever transgresses, and abides not in the doctrine of the Messiah, has not God. He that abides in the doctrine of the Messiah, he has both the Father and the Son. If there comes any to you, and brings not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that bids him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full. The children of your elect sister greet you. Amen. The elder to the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth. Beloved, I wish above all things that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, even as you walk in the truth. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do to the brethren, and to strangers;” (2 John 1:6-3 John 1:5 KJBPNV)
“Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21 KJBPNV)
“And whatever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.” (1 John 3:22 KJBPNV)
“If you love me, keep my commandments.” (John 14:15 KJBPNV)
“He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.” (John 14:21 KJBPNV)
“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;” (Hebrews 5:9 KJBPNV)
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps his word, in him truly is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that says he dwells in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:3-6 KJBPNV)
Follow Jesus.
We do not have to follow any worldly person or have to belong to a huge church.
A great worldly success does not make the right church or not makes those persons great preachers/teachers.
“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24 KJBPNV)
“Then spoke Yahshua again to them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” (John 8:12 KJBPNV)
Read your Bible every day to get to know Christ better.
“Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15 KJBPNV)
“For whatever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” (Romans 15:4 KJBPNV)
“For Moses truly said to the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord Yahweh your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall you hear in all things whatever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts 3:22-23 KJBPNV)
“And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Yahshua the Messiah, whom you have sent.” (John 17:3 KJBPNV)
“But these are written, that you might believe that Yahshua is the Messiah, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through his name.” (John 20:31 KJBPNV)
“And there was delivered to him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he (Jesus/Yeshua) had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord Yahweh is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord Yahweh. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say to them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.” (Luke 4:17-21 KJBPNV)
Talk to God in prayer every day.
We are urged to pray without ceasing, to live in faith and to do all things with love.
Jesus has given us an example by praying himself to his Father and has told us how and to who we must pray. If people wanted to give him honours without delay he told them that not to do, but to thank God. He prayed for others but also for himself and dared even to beg his Father. At certain moments he even dared to raise his voice and to cry out to his Father.
He left us a model prayer where he gave an original text for a speech to his and our Father. Thereby it was also emphasised how Gods name is holy and that we also must recognise His Holy Name.“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears to him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;” (Hebrews 5:7 KJBPNV)
“After this manner therefore pray you: Our Father which are in heaven, Hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For yours is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.” (Matthew 6:9-13 KJBPNV)
“Be anxious for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.” (Philippians 4:6 KJBPNV)
“Give ear to my words, O Yahweh, consider my meditation. Listen to the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto you will I pray.” (Psalms 5:1-2 KJBPNV)
“If a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:6 KJBPNV)
“And in that day you shall ask me nothing. Truly, truly, I say to you, Whatever you shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.” (John 16:23 KJBPNV)
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man the Messiah Yahshua;” (1 Timothy 2:5 KJBPNV)
“And whatever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.” (1 John 3:22 KJBPNV)
“For the eyes of the Lord Yahweh are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers: but the face of the Lord Yahweh is against them that do evil.” (1 Peter 3:12 KJBPNV)
“Yahweh is far from the wicked: but he hears the prayer of the righteous.” (Proverbs 15:29 KJBPNV)
Be in Christ.
“Therefore if any man is in the Messiah, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.” (2 Corinthians 5:17 KJBPNV)
“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as the Messiah was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:4 KJBPNV)
Be baptised, worship, fellowship, and serve with other Christians in a place where Christ is preached and the Bible is the final authority.
Once the belief in Christ reached you and you got the want to fixed to it you can choose to confirm this by becoming baptised. By being whitewashed you can witness to start a new life as an accepted son of God and as brother or sister of the other believers. As newborn we must carry the love of Christ Jesus in us and share this love with others.
Even if you are only with two, you can form a meeting in the name of Christ, who shall be with you, and have as such the seed for an ecclesia.
In communitywith each other one must try to support each other and give chances to build and progress in the true belief.“Then came Yahshua from Galilee to the Jordan unto John, to be baptized by him. But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized by you, and come you to me? And Yahshua answering said unto him, Allow it to be so now: for thus it becomes us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed him. And Yahshua, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, behold, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And behold a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:13-17 KJBPNV)
“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” (Acts 10:48 KJBPNV)
“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Yahshua the Messiah, they were baptized, both men and women.” (Acts 8:12 KJBPNV)“Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19-20 KJBPNV)

“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20 KJBPNV)
“In the name of our Lord Yahshua the Messiah, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Yahshua the Messiah,” (1 Corinthians 5:4 KJBPNV)
“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.” (Hebrews 10:25 KJBPNV)

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.” (Romans 8:14-15 KJBPNV)

“And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Therefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through the Messiah.” (Galatians 4:6-7 KJBPNV)
“And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Yahshua the Messiah himself being the chief corner stone;” (Ephesians 2:20 KJBPNV)
“Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” (1 Corinthians 3:16 KJBPNV)

“God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwells not in temples made with hands;” (Acts 17:24 KJBPNV)
“Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the congregation which is in his house.” (Colossians 4:15 KJBPNV)
“Likewise greet the congregation that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto the Messiah.” (Romans 16:5 KJBPNV)
“And he went into the synagogue, and spoke boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when some were hardened, and believed not, but spoke evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.” (Acts 19:8-9 KJBPNV)
Tell others about Christ.
Primary goal of the believers in Christ Jesus, to make disciples and to witness so that others also can be saved.“A true witness delivers souls: but a deceitful witness speaks lies.” (Proverbs 14:25 KJBPNV)
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Are you a king then? Yahshua answered, You say that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Every one that is of the truth hears my voice.” (John 18:37 KJBPNV)
“I give you charge in the sight of God, who revives all things, and before the Messiah Yahshua, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;” (1 Timothy 6:13 KJBPNV)
“And from Yahshua the Messiah, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,” (Revelation 1:5 KJBPNV)
“And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Revelation 11:3 KJBPNV)
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come.” (Matthew 24:14 KJBPNV)
“And he said to them, Go you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” (Mark 16:15 KJBPNV)
“For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yes, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!” (1 Corinthians 9:16 KJBPNV)
“Be not you therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be you partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;” (2 Timothy 1:8 KJBPNV)
“And the dragon was angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yahshua the Messiah.” (Revelation 12:17 KJBPNV)
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of the Messiah: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16 KJBPNV)
Help others to reach the fullness of Christ we also do have to reach for.
We have to help everybody around us to grow into someone who leads others to Christ not to entertain us or make us feel better every time we come to the ecclesia.
Be aware that it is not marketing research and advertising to bring people in that makes the good ecclesia.
Everything must be about going for the purity of the Word of Godand not particularly for popularity. One can certainly never give in to public demands or doing a concession, about the Law of God, to obtain more people.
Be disciples who replicate because they know enough of the Bible and nature of Jehovah God to help others understand Him and His son Jesus too.
Not lack in discipleship training and pointing the congregations to Christ. We should all take discipleship as our responsibility.
Obeying to the teachings of the master teacher we must make our self free of any blemish or suspicion and fully aim our eyes to Jesus and his community, not to a human personal church community or specific human leader.
In love we must have an eye and ear for each other and for each other’s shaping in the teachings of Christ Jesus, as children of One and the same God.“by god’s grace, you, who were once slaves to sin, obeyed from your heart the pattern of teaching to which you were exposed;” (Romans 6:17 CJB)
“here is how we know that we love god’s children: when we love god, we also do what he commands. for loving god means obeying his commands. moreover, his commands are not burdensome,” (1 John 5:2-3 CJB)“I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Yahshua the Messiah, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch you in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of your ministry.” (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJBPNV)
Stand up to false teaching and do not stay ignorant.
Open your mouth and tell the world the truth. Speak up, don’t let your appearance or mistakes stop you and don’t let others stop you because of your appearance or past mistakes.
God loves you, I love you, and you are called to make a difference.
Avoid those who do not live according to Gods Law and Jesus teachings.
As a Christian it is important that we choose with whom we have ambulatory and concerning which subjects we want to talk, or to which films we look at and which books or illustrated magazines we want to read. Our choice of the circle of friends must become stipulated with the choice of the direction which we in our life want to go.“moreover, love is this: that we should live according to his commands. this is the command, as you people have heard from the beginning; live by it! for many deceivers have gone out into the world, people who do not acknowledge Yeshua the Messiah’s coming as a human being. such a person is a deceiver and an anti-Messiah. watch yourselves, so that you won’t lose what you have worked for, but will receive your full reward. everyone who goes ahead and does not remain true to what the Messiah has taught does not have god. those who remain true to his teaching have both the father and the son. if someone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, don’t welcome him into your home. don’t even say, “shalom!” to him; for the person who says, “shalom!” to him shares in his evil deeds. although I have much to write you people, I would rather not use paper and ink. instead, I hope to come and see you and to talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete. the children of your chosen sister send you their greetings. from: the Elder to: dear Gaius, whom I love in truth: dear friend, I am praying that everything prosper with you and that you be in good health, as I know you are prospering spiritually. for I was so happy when some brothers came and testified how faithful you are to the truth, as you continue living in the truth. nothing gives me greater joy than hearing that my children are living in the truth. dear friend, you are faithful in all the work you are doing for the brothers, even when they are strangers to you.” (2 John 1:6-3 John1:5 CJB)“Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Yahshua the Messiah, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother that walks disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received from us.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6 KJBPNV)

Therefore let us always remember: ““not everyone who says to me, ‘lord, lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, only those who do what my father in heaven wants.” (Matthew 7:21 CJB) and take care that we always shall fulfill the requirements to enter the gate to the Kingdom of God.
“the way we can be sure we know him is if we are obeying his commands. anyone who says, “I know him,” but isn’t obeying his commands is a liar – the truth is not in him. but if someone keeps doing what he says, then truly love for god has been brought to its goal in him. this is how we are sure that we are united with him. A person who claims to be continuing in union with him ought to conduct his life the way he did.” (1 John 2:3-6 CJB)

Dutch version: Actie bij aanvaarding Redder Jezus

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Fragments from the Book of Job #7 Epilogue

Posted on June 24, 2011. Filed under: Being Christian, following Jesus Christ, Bible Study and Bible Reading, Christendom and Christianity, Endtimes, Jehovah יהוה YHWH JHVH God Elohim Yahweh Jahweh, Suffering, World | Tags: Abrahamic covenant, Almighty, Anointed, Answer from God, argument, Bible, Bildad, Book of Job, Children of God, Christendom and Christianity, control, Creation, Creator deity, crime, disappointment, Elihu, Eliphaz, Evil, God, God speaking, Gods, Gods desire, Gods Law, Gods Plan, Gods Power, Gods Wil, Gods Word, Hearing, Hearing God, Holy Spirit, iniquity, Jehovah, Jesus, Job, Law of Christ, Life, Messiah, omnipotent, oppressed, pitfall, poor, Poverty theology, Pray, Prayer, pride, Prosperity theology, Reflect, Religion and Spirituality, Resurrection, Righteous person, rightheous, Salvation, Satan, Silence of God, Suffering, Theology, thinking straight, Thought, transgression, trap, trial, Worshipping, Yeshua |

As Kevin Miller writes in his blog article about Job “Job is a book of tragedy, foolish counsel, mourning, but also great strength.” For us it can be counted as such a real romantic film: Job begins and ends happy and cheery, but in-between we get drama of high calibre. By the end of the very first chapter, all of Job’s kids were dead, his animals had been killed and/or stolen, almost of of his servants were dead, and he had completely crushed. Than his health was taken away and by the end of Job 2, we found this (once) wealthy, healthy, man of integrity sitting on a pile of ashes scraping his gaping wounds with broken pieces of pottery. As so often happens by humans is that his friends also started to accuse him of all sorts of bad things. People love it to find the evil by an other, but do not want to see “the beam” in their own eyes. “In Job 8:4, Job’s good old buddy, Bildad, even has the audacity to accuse Job of hidden sin! As if Job were to blame for his suffering! That’s a sad misconception that is sometimes even taught from pulpits today: hidden sin is causing your suffering. ” writes Miller rightly. We have to be careful not to fall in that trap or pitfall.
We also may not accept the latest theologies: Poverty theology and prosperity theology. The first considering those who are poor to be more righteous than those who are rich. It considers a matter of greed to become more wealthy than others and it honours those who choose to live in poverty as particularly devoted to God. Conversely, prosperity theology considers those who are rich to be more righteous than those who are poor; it honours those who are affluent as being rewarded by God because of their faith. In fact, both poverty and prosperity theology can be half-truths but are not depicting the full picture of Gods handling people.

Job and his family restored - Blake

Instead of clinging our hears to false teachers we do better to take Gods Words to our heart. As Arlin Sorensen says: “God has spoken to us clearly through His Word – the Bible is His first communication to us. But more than that – God continues to speak to us as well. The Holy Spirit lives in us to communicate God’s Truth to our hearts. God may speak to us through a dream or a vision. There is no shortage of God speaking to us and giving us direction for life. ” (About Job 33) Even without any book we could and should hear the words from God, because God is talking to us continually through creation, His Word, and the Spirit that lives in us. In the Book of Job as in many other Books of the Bible God lifts up a veil and is shown up as the Most Almighty, Omnipotent, Most Wise and Creator of all things and of all beings. The problem is that most of us do not want to read the Bible and as such hear the Words of God. They prefer to listen to the most popular speakers. But they are not always the wise speakers. On the other hand we also often fail as listeners because we have certain ideas to which we want to keep fast. Most listeners are already preparing their response before the ones to whom they listen ever finish what they have to say. We saw a glimpse of how we want to win the argument, like Elihu who thought he had all the answers. A lot of persons also think the Bible is just an old book and they forget that this Book of Books, the Best-seller of all times can change their life.

Because we want things our way, we prefer the answers who go in our direction of thinking and we dare to feel unjustified when something does happen not like we want it. Often it is our pride which hinders us to think straight and worse, makes it impossible to hear the answers from God. I do hope that in Arlin Sorensen’s Thoughts on Scripture the writer means not with ” It does keep us from hearing God’s response – because there isn’t one. ” that there is no answer for us, because even if we have haughtiness or arrogance God has everybody given the chance to put his or her pride aside and to take up His Word of Wisdom in their hands to learn from it. He is right to say that God opposes the proud. Scripture tells us that over and over. But that God doesn’t hear well – if at all – when pride is our defining character we cannot find right, because God listens to everything what happens and to what people say. He knows and sees everything. Nothing can escape His eye or ear. He doesn’t despise any. Jehovah is not going to look down upon with contempt just because a person can have some bad characteristics as pride. Yes He detest excessive self-esteem but He does see through our eyes and heart and knows were our attitude comes from. If we are honestly willing to hear God He shall come close to us. God shows no partiality to mankind (Job 34:19) and He has always His answer ready for everybody, who wants to hear it. Though it may not always come at the time we would think appropriate. It is up to God to decide to whom He gives answer when. God is always in control of everything. God is powerful and mighty because His righteous judgement and wisdom. Elihu showed us in chapter 36 how God gives some answers to the world, though they may not be like they would like to hear them. (Fragments from the Book of Job #5: chapters 32-37) Nothing can be “thwarted” from God (NIV) no purpose of Him can be restrained. (Job 42:2) Nothing is to difficult for God (Genesis 18:14; Isaiah 43:13; Jeremiah 32:17; Matthew 19:26) When we are in agony, like Jesus was in the garden of Gethsemane, we can pray to Him and ask Him for things which seem impossible, because He can do everything (Mark 14:36) which shall always be more than any human being (Luke 18:27). God wants to be heard (Job 33:16) and use also people to let His voice been heard (2 Kings 17:13). By showing the people the results of their doings, the crimes caused by their pride, God gives answers to them (Job 36:9). To hear God we sometimes have to be willing to stand still and to be prepared to listen (Job 37:14). To stop or “stand still”: “Stand still and see the salvation of God” (Exodus 14:13; 2 Chronicles 20:17). “Stand still and hear God’s commandments” (Numbers 9:8). “Stand still that I may show you the word of God” (1 Samuel 9:27). “Stand still that I may reason with you” (1 Samuel 12:7).

One of the beauties of Gods creation where Jesus prayed to His Father, his and our God

“Behold, God is mighty, and despises not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom. He preserves not the life of the wicked: but gives right to the poor. He withdraws not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings are they on the throne; yes, he does establish them forever, and they are exalted. And if they are bound in fetters, and are held in cords of affliction; Then he shows them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded. He opens also their ear to discipline, and commands that they return from iniquity.” You can read here how God answers them and which advice He give those people who got a higher position but could not keep it right. ” If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures. But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge. But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he binds them. They die in youth, and their life is among the unclean.” (Job 36:5-14 KJBPNV)

“He delivers the poor in his affliction, and opens their ears in oppression. Even so would he have removed you out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no narrow place; and that which should be set on your table should be full of fatness.” (Job 36:15-16 KJBPNV)

“Behold, God exalts by his power: who teaches like him?” (Job 36:22 KJBPNV)

“He seals up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work.” (Job 37:7 KJBPNV)

“Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. Men do therefore fear him: he respects not any that are wise of heart.” (Job 37:23-24 KJBPNV)

“Gird up your loins now like a man: I will demand of you, and declare you unto me.” (Job 40:7 KJBPNV)

“Then will I also confess to you that your own right hand can save you.” (Job 40:14 KJBPNV)

“I know that you can do every thing, and that no thought can be withheld from you. Who is he that hides counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.” (Job 42:2-3 KJBPNV)

Also people who do not believe in God shall at certain times, decided by God, be able to hear God saying things to them. Because God’s desire is that we move away from sin and move to righteousness. He opens our ears to know His commands Job 36:10).

In Job 37:19 Elihu seems to have taunted Job asking him to teach them (Elihu and the three friends) how they should understand how to speak with God. Our brother Robert Prins wrote: “Elihu began by looking up. Maybe we should do the same as we gaze at the vastness of the heavens, the ethereal blue of the sky, the beauty of the sunrise and the sunset – new pictures painted by God for us to marvel at every day. We can see the expanse of his power as we look up into space and see the millions of stars he has created in glorious beauty, shining in the blackness on the night sky. And when we see clouds we can be impressed by the sheer volume and weight of water that God suspends above the earth. Who has not failed to be impressed by the thunder and lightening of a storm – thunder that can be heard all over the land, and lightening that lights up the whole earth with one almighty flash. And what about the rain, the snow or the hot sun and the way that God can disrupt the whole of man’s affairs by floods, snowstorm, earthquake or heatwave…
May our hearts also pound and leap from their places as we stop to consider God’s wonders.”

We have to reflect on what happens in the world and how God works on it. we have to try to understand God’s involvement in the way that things work in the natural world. Looking around us we can “see” and “hear” a lot of answers to our questions. Other people can sensitise others, like us, to get to know more about the Creator deity. They also can let us see that trials we often go through are not only for us, but for those around us as well and for people far away, who often have nothing to do with what caused their problem either.
As God broke His silence to Job (Job 38:1-) (Fragments from the Book of Job #6: chapters 38-42) He employed a series of more than 70 questions to show Job and humankind, his ignorance and God’s greatness. As long as everything goes all right nobody seems to worry about God, but as soon as something terrible happens ‘everybody’ wants to blame God for it. Suddenly everybody has than criticism on the Creator. Speaking with great irony and personifying His other creations God want putting men right in front of it, and having them to face the facts. did not God confront Job with mysteries of the animal kingdom in order to make him more aware of his ignorance and thus of his inability to be a competent judge of the works of God?
We get to see the other point about what the Book of Job is about. When people criticizes the way things happen in the world and blame God for it, they are trying to usurp God’s position as Master or Governor of this world (Job 40:6-14).
Normally God has not to justify Himself before us, but God addressed the issue of His own justice and Job his futile attempt at self-justification (Job 40:8-14). God questions man if he would condemn the Creator or discredit His justice to justify man himself (Job 40:8 )

gods of the babyboom generation

In this world many want to have modern gods, people to whom they can look up. Some of those men and women would not mind taking on the appearance of deity. God challenges those people (Job 40:10) King David knew his place and wanted to honour God, but hoped that the adversaries and accusers would be clothed with disgrace and wrapped in shame as in a cloak (Psalm 109:29).

As we came to chapter 42 of the Book of Job the contest with the satan, i.e. the accuser is now over and Job became restored. Job repented for the presumptuous words he spoke to the Most High, his Creator(Job 42:6). We got to see that Jehovah does not want people to suffer for no reason. God could not be impressed with the words of Jobs friends. He found it time that the friends of Job were put on their place and that Job could enjoy again happiness. This last one put away his pride and rebellion and finds contentment in the knowledge that he has God’s fellowship. We also should already be pleased that God wants to be with us, though we do not understand all His ways with us and with the world around us.

Knowing that God is in control of everything but that He has given men the right to clear all things themselves, it is up to take our own responsibility. After the fall Adam and Eve and all their next generations could prove they could manage the creation. So lets tackle it according to our best means, knowing that we all received everything around us in loan from the Creator Jehovah our God, the Most High and omnipotent.

As a Christian, we should lovingly and sincerely have concern for many people and their many circumstances. We should see what happens in the world and should look for the underlying causes. First of all should we always remember that God has given men a free will. The Creator has given men the possibility to choose and to have many choices. So we should be aware which way several people wanted to go, what they did and what consequences they and not God, brought to other human beings and to the rest of the creation of God. As children of God our hearts should ache for the pain and trouble that other creatures experience in life. This concern should compel us to react wisely and to come unto their help. To people we should speak truth into their life, which can include everything from pointing out sin to giving wise counsel, and intercede for them before God in prayer. We also have to stay aware of our limitations. We never can “play for God”. As finite beings, there is only so much we can do and we must discern whom God has called us to help and how God has called us to help them. We have to make choices how and how much we can help and have to put priorities first. Whatever happens we should carry first whatever load God has allowed to come over us, but not blaming Him for it. Than we should see how God still stays with us and helps us to carry that load or burden. As brothers and sisters in Christ we can help each other to make the burden lighter. Out of love we should try to do everything to make the problems less.

“Bear you one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of the Messiah. For if a man thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden.” (Galatians 6:2-5 KJBPNV)

Let us be humble enough to accept that the Creator of all things has a good Plan which He is going to bring to a good end in due time. Although we cannot fully understand or appreciate Him, we can love, trust, respect Him and acknowledge that God alone can save us. Jehovah is our strength and He is the only underived and self-sustaining existence in the universe. All other forms of life are but incorporations of the life which is in Him — so many subdivisions of the stream which issues from the great fountainhead. God, as the antecedent, eternal power of the universe, has elaborated all things out of Himself. The testimony before us is, that the God of gods did not hide from the wilderness Israelites, for in the startling familiarity they had every proof that He was with them in the shining face of Moses and the tables of stone. There were rules in abundance on how to worship, but even that did not make obedient children. God’s life instruction and every provision of over reaching care, made little difference to the Israelites. Having the opportunity to read all the stories what happened to the people of God we should know better and take care not “to follow the world”. We should choose to follow the man God had sent to the earth to save the world. And we should follow the teachings of that son of God, called Yeshua or Jesus, the Nazarene, also called the Messiah.

In case we are not so happy with our life, let us look how we can make it better and easier to bear. Our disappointment is in itself a sign that we hunger for something better, and whatever our suffering situation and disappointment with the outcome, that we will regain a better outlook. All sufferers can have Hope. God especially cares and provides for all men — He is not willing that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9; John 3:16,17). The disappointment, with God’s answer, can be overwhelming, but God’s disappointment with us and God’s rejection of us are worse. We may never know the purpose of our suffering, but we need to rest assured that God has one. None of His should ever risk rejection.
If God leaves room for doubts and doubters, and we know He does, He also leaves room for the faithless, and in our disappointment, even for us. So God wants to give everybody His answer and His Help. The God who is positive has not only measures and rules for us but also promises.That we always have our ears and eyes open to see God ways and hear His answers and follow His instructions. That we have our eyes fixed on Gods Hope and that we hope in Him and in His son.

***

“The final chapters of this remarkable book, one of the first on record, brings the drama to a wonderful conclusion. The questions with which it opened by the quest of the Satan, are now answered, and Job finds his experiences have developed his character and understanding. As a wonderful type of the Lord Jesus, Job is vindicated by Yahweh, and becomes a mediator for his friends. He is again commended as Yahweh’s ‘righteous servant’ and is restored and honoured sevenfold. The last speech of the Deity is in Job 41, in which is revealed the power of the flesh in the great leviathan, and the way in which the Almighty Creator permits His creation to display greater spiritual principles. So the record continues as the mighty leviathan is presented as the final picture of Yahweh’s omnipotence. [1] Its untamable ferocity: Job 41: 1-9. [2] Its terrifying appearance: Job 41: 10-24. [3] Its power in attack: Job 41: 25-32. [4] Its incontestable supremacy: Job 41: 33,34″ (GEM).
Job 42: “The picture moves to the exaltation of Job: [1] Job humbles himself before Yahweh: Job 42 1-6. [6] Divine rebuke of Job’s accusers: Job 42 7-9. [7] Job restored and honoured: Job 42 10-17. The type is before us in the record of Job; the antitype will shortly be revealed in the return of Yahshua the Anointed, and the elevation of his true family. Then great blessing will come to the whole world, in fulfilment of the Abrahamic covenant” (GEM).

“Trouble (so far from being evidence of desertion) is a means employed in His hands to lay the foundation of future joy and blessedness. Let His children then be comforted and strengthened to endure even the deepest and most inexplicable affliction. Let them learn to see God in the darkness and to feel His hand in the tempest. Let them beware of the folly of Job’s three friends rebuked of God. Let them know that this time of our pilgrimage is the night, and that though weeping may endure for a night, joy cometh in the morning and that joy a joy prepared by the weeping. Let them apply the consolation Christ has given them: ‘Blessed are ye that weep now, for ye shall be comforted’ [Matthew 5:4]” (WP 83).
***

Epilogue of the Book of Job

The Deliverance of Job

Job 42 (New Century Version)

7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not said what is right about me, as my servant Job did. 8 Now take seven bulls and seven male sheep, and go to my servant Job, and offer a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will listen to his prayer. Then I will not punish you for being foolish. You have not said what is right about me, as my servant Job did.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite did as the Lord said, and the Lord listened to Job’s prayer. 10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the Lord gave him success again. The Lord gave Job twice as much as he had owned before. 11 Job’s brothers and sisters came to his house, along with everyone who had known him before, and they all ate with him there. They comforted him and made him feel better about the trouble the Lord had brought on him, and each one gave Job a piece of silver and a gold ring. 12 The Lord blessed the last part of Job’s life even more than the first part. Job had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand teams of oxen, and a thousand female donkeys. 13 Job also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 He named the first daughter Jemimah, the second daughter Keziah, and the third daughter Keren-Happuch. 15 There were no other women in all the land as beautiful as Job’s daughters. And their father Job gave them land to own along with their brothers. 16 After this, Job lived one hundred forty years. He lived to see his children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren. 17 Then Job died; he was old and had lived many years.

Job 42:17

The LXX adds, as footnote: “And it is written that he shall rise up again, with those whom the LORD shall raise up.”

Next: Let us recognise how great God is

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Please do find more about Suffering on our main website:

The Ecclesia in the churchsystem

Posted on November 5, 2010. Filed under: Christendom and Christianity, Churchplanning, Ecclesia, Housechurch, Religion, Witnessing | Tags: Bible, Breaking of the Bread, Catholic Church, Christ, Christadelphians, Christendom and Christianity, Christian, Church community, God, housechurch, Jesus, mission, New Covenant, Parish, prophecy, Service, sharing, Worshipping |

Structure of an ecclesia and connected expenses

If one wants to form an ecclesia or church community we are dependent on several juridical and worldly matters and are not able to avoid particular expenses.

Today the time is ripe that we should let people come in contact with God’s Word and show them what is really written in the Bible.

We have come to a turning point in Christianity, because of the many scandals today in the Roman Catholic Church. Care has to be taken that those who leave that church do not lose their fate in God. They now ought to see that the moment has come to turn the tide. For those Catholics who leave their church it is not easy to leave their familiar surroundings to walk and in a quite new world of religion perception of a lot of smaller denominations in Christianity. Those who flee their own Roman Catholic Church, we should offer a springboard to a fresh warm church community in which they can feel themselves at home. We should show them that all Christians ought to form one unity under the wings of Christ Jesus. We as Christians ought to be part of the limbs of Christ which form the Church. We should let them see that all of God’s people make up the church. We are the church together. ‘Church’ is people. That is the view the earliest Christians had of themselves. ‘Church’ is loaded with so many connotations. Let we therefore get them to see that the basic unit of the church in the first three centuries was the ‘household’ or ‘oikos’ (Greek). Oikos refers to the ‘household’ rather than just the building. Households, in New Testament times, included wider family, slaves, servants, clients and in fact one’s ‘sphere of influence’. We as brothers and sisters in Christ should feel bounded together and should not feel that there are any differences between us in rank, colour, and age. Everybody in the community should have the same value. Our binding element should be Christ Jesus, who died for us all. Important is that as his followers we should be like being his brother or sister and should share the love with others as he showed his love for all those around him, and others should be able to notice and to feel that. Jesus went into different houses and showed in them how people could come to his Father. In one upper room he also showed the apostles how they should continue his work and have a meal together with other believers. Around the table he asked them to do in remembrance of him a breaking of the bread and a sharing of the cup of the New Covenant. Jesus did not do that in the temple, but in a hired room in a normal house. We also can either hire a room, use an open or public space or better still, use a living or other room in some ones house. Jesus was reared in a home in a family and as a family man he loved also the atmosphere and fulfilled his ministry often in homes. The house was, as today, the place where the basic unit of society lives – the family. Note the many times we read of Jesus eating with His disciples and with others – in homes.
Disciples were sent out on a door-to-door mission and Jesus also told them to continue their way in case they were not welcome at a certain place. After Pentecost, Christians met in houses. In Romans 16:3-5 and in several other places in the New Testament, reference is made to the church that meets in a home. Work and ministry in homes was part of Paul’s mission journeys. So people of today should get away from that picture of that gothic church building with a church tower, they should see that there are other forms of churches.

We should warm up people to study the Bible. And now when the big buildings, cathedrals and tower churches are left empty for most of the time we should try to bring the people together again to study God’s Word and to worship our Father in heaven. Today the time has come to show who we want to honour. We should take steps and follow in the footsteps of Jesus and his apostles. We have to go out and spread the Good News, but we also have to meet with each other and give honour to the One and Only God, Jehovah/Yahweh. A house church will offer more the occasion to feel part of a group than a big institutional church building or cathedral. There one is more quickly concerned by the event. Being church can more easily become experienced because everybody is concerned more closely.

Soufrière Catholic Church - Image by waywuwei via Flickr

In Jesus name, we can ask God to be able to build up a church community. He will give us support and also bring us in contact with the right men. But He let us also feel how we still are a part of the world. The worldly worries, concerns and troubles will remain circling the municipality. We always are hanging or fixed at the worldly standards and expectations. Where one stands or goes must one pay something. Stay load, gas and electricity, expenses for materials, moves and so more.

To start off in a village it’s possible to do that just with two or three friends – have a meal together, and share your vision. Plan to encourage one another, share you lives, pray together to seek God’s way forward to be and to do what He wants for you as a gathering and for the community around you.
In our small community it is important to be open to new comers. But we always do have to be aware that we all come from many different experiences in our Christian journey. The ecclesia does not have to have many people; it is more important that those who are present are people who want to share the Good News and want to serve God. However small it is important that they are willing to encourage one another, share life, pray together, read the Bible together, seek, find the truth ans stick to it, and enjoy God and one another.

We must let newcomers know that it is not necessary to have a set ritual or Mass with a missal. We do not need a book containing all the prayers and responses necessary for worshipping God throughout the year. Perhaps a certain order can be seen in the timing of a service. Like having first a welcoming moment, an opening, next a centre part with lots of time to be taken for the Word of God with Bible reading and exhortation, the Breaking of the Bread and then a closure. But there should be no strict format you have to follow or for everyone to agree on minor matters of doctrine for this to happen. It just can be inspiring to have every time a different service. Also we should avoid any regular uttering of preformed repeating texts. For newcomers it can be strange that we should not have to be afraid to create prayers or moments of meditation on the spur of the moment. Having such inspirational moments can bring perhaps some texts that would not be brought fluently enough when it is not a set text, but members should look over that and hear the message. Members of the community should be sympathetic to anybody who dares to open his or her mouth. Understanding has to go out to all those who bring something into the service. To speak out or to sing should be welcome for everybody. Sharing ideas, praying and singing together can make the fire burning in the persons present. And it shall construct of the way of feeling and being part of the church. A worship service has to be one of action and everybody in the ecclesia should be part of that action. All, young or old can contribute.

We must have consideration for the fact that many from the institutional churches often felt at ease because they were not noticed in the mass. In a certain way it is easier to be somewhere in the shade in a big church or behind the pillar in a big building. Sometimes people do not want to be active and we certainly may not force any activity on a newcomer but let him see slowly that as real pupils of the Messiah we should know that we have to follow the master’s example. Though if they do not have the desire to put oneself under the power of a “king” or an institution they should want to belong to the body of Christ, which is the ‘Church’. But we should let them see that the Church of Jesus is not one of keepers of tradition and not one of holders of the worldly thoughts and Hellenistic ideas. The desire to hold faith in a way that allows greater celebration of one’s real life is what should keep together those who form and come to an ecclesia. A hunger for whole-life spirituality. (A wonderful Puritan value.) A hunger for expressions of Christian spirituality and ways of operating that should engage the particular strengths of all those who want to have the feeling to be part of the same body of Christ.
We all should have the desire to explore more deeply aspects of our faith-heritage beyond the particular basis-of-association of a particular church, and to draw upon other traditions and ways. The desire not to be sucked into patterns of displacement activity in the face of a clearly focused “Great Commission”.

The experience of the Risen Lord was an ever-present vibrant reality within the individual and amongst the followers of Christ as they encouraged, blessed, taught and enabled one another, and as they joyously spread the Good News of the Gospel from household to household. Today is should not be different. We all should spread the word and that beautiful message of the Good News the New Covenant and the coming of the Kingdom of God.
By coming together in one place or other we can give each other a moment of blessed time. For us it can create an opportunity to build one another from the teaching we received from the time we could have free to read in the Bible. We should be aware that not everybody has the same chances to spend the same amount on reading the Word of God. Also not everybody has the same gifts to read and understand easily. So we all should help each other to see the light. We should give each other the possibility to bring forward some questions on all sorts of matters. All the questions brought forward can then be answered in the light of God’s Word. By bringing forwards different interpretations everybody can see and hear how others think and understand certain phrases in the Bible. Everybody can also share the experience of the ways of God in each person. Teaching and admonishing one another, all can look at and share prophecy, tongues and other gifts.

Christadelphian Ecclesia

All those different gifts of the many different characters in the community should be carried by faith that is rooted in the obedience to the teachings of Christ without parenthesizing whole tracts of Christ’s commands and abdicating their obedience to the professionals! All members of the Christian Community are members of the church and are the Church. So all present should have, in their right the same say. Except that there has to be made a certain order to have the service, or other activities, created in good order and to avoid chaos.
Giving way or opening up an ecclesia is a way of faith that recovers the priesthood of all believers and the church-hood of the believing family.

We should not be afraid that every worshipping service is different. What happens arises from the experience of God that each member has. Growth happens as the encouraging and enabling one to another takes us further on the journey as individuals and as a group. In the ecclesia we should enable and encourage the gifts of one another for the building of the Body. And this is easier to do in a smaller community, so it may not bother us that we are such a few.

To come to the growth of an ecclesia it not to bad to have a policy plan. Together conferring which way one want to go is there the big concern. We must hold in to account the general un-churching and the disinterest for God, but it may not discourage us. Greying and secularization are individual characters of our environment which we must hold in mind. To have eyes for the current situation of this world is essential for the surroundings. But we may never wish to sacrifice the individual character of our belief to come towards the time bound position of men in the neighbourhood.

In first authority a neutral meeting place is indicated best, but furthermore house meetings are ideal. The house church is the mostly close-fitting with the Christian tradition. Meetings of formation and equipment must become foreseen. Provided that the members who come to our beliefs community mostly did grow up in this believe, we must see the difficulty to bring them round from their community in which they grew up, so far to get it that they also want to visit our ecclesia once in a while. For this purpose it becomes important that they feel themselves welcome and that they also become aware that we are a community of men of this time.

Unworldly things must in every respect be avoided. And those things that at first sight look strange, especially with the eye on the accepted affairs, must be clarified on the first view with the Word of God. The Biblical explanation must lie on the foreground. Visitors have to be aware that for us the Word of God stand on the first place and is our most important guide. For some men can that well appear peculiar that always is referred to Bible verses, but that those Bible quotations are considerably important to bring the understanding of God’s Word.

The church has to show others that it is part of this world and that they themselves already are anchored in a particular culture. The church or ecclesia can show that they stand open for contemporary influences and trends. In some affairs, the community can go along but it may not disavow with it its own individual character. In the Church it must be possible as in the society having cultures live together and lead churches together. That variety can only feed the church community, when everybody holds them self to Gods Laws and follows the teachings of Christ Jesus.

If the church will wring itself into different positions to grow then the church becomes in danger. We can see this in the institutional churches who twisted them self in all sorts of curves to bring about that growth. And that can have unwanted effects. The attention for ‘outsiders’ can swallow so much attention that the care for the members of the municipality with it shatters. One can go so far in adapting the ecclesia to what one thinks that outsiders expect or wish that members of the municipality become hit and get a feeling of alienation. Many institutional churches became crooked and many churches become empty. One has given too much attention to serve the others to their wish so that the individual character of that church went up and down as a yoyo on and changed as hygienic men change of underpants. This was however not the manner to hold the Church clean. Purity in the belief community can be there only as it holds clear belief points and keeps to them.

Each Church community her future stands or falls with the extent in which the church there will succeed in the future in come closer to the spiritual needs of the younger generation without that the older generation gets estranged. Therefore it can be important to bring the discussions or subjects considerably in line to points of interest for both parties.

We however may not forget that it always is considerably important that we let our neighbours see that we are inspired are through the story that God is committed with men and has for them a solution in store. The Plan of God lies affirmed with us on the furrow plan and in the bringing to existence of the ransom or peace offering of Jesus Christ in which we got the hope of the New Covenant. That Story goes for thousand years, and still each day million men are inspired by it. It tells us of a loving God that gives security to men in this seeking world. It tells us also of Jesus Christ, who brings reconciliation in a world fully wounded and hurt men. It tells us of the Holy Spirit, the Power of God, that our men – and this world – can renew. This Story is the origin of the church in her many figures, the ground under her feet, her largest joy and fixed hope for the future. We must at the outside world let see that we believe in this and also find the power to share together and to go forward together to go in this world full discomforts making it so more bearable for everybody.

The Holy Scriptures, the texts from the Old and New Testament give us courage and summon us to seek what connects us actually in the meeting with God and with each other. From the hope that we can get from the Bible we must get the power to bring others to God, from love for them. This love for them must we let them feel them also. If they are conscious of our, without wrong intentions, openness and love, and our honest inspiration we can perhaps convince them. Through our words and acts, we must be an example and worthy to be called Brother of Christ. Not only vocal must we let it come to expression, but the onlookers must be able to find it also in our meetings and celebrations, in which we want Gods errand to be known. From the inspiration of the Story, we experience a pressing need in this time visibly to out ourselves and to be of meaning. As a community, we must direct therefore to the outside and have to be hospitable.

Our activities must be easily accessible but have really to try to involve everybody by the service, there that is one of our individual characters that we together make service and that everybody is equal. Therefore we should try to involve everybody to read together the Word of God and to discuss it. We must let feel everybody that how small their contribution would be that this would be a valuable one and be welcome by the whole community.

In each meeting or celebration must be preserved a time to have an active participation for all members, and time for reflection and silence. At the participation of municipality members all those members should be open to any other member, accidental visitors or invited ones. Everybody must be made sensitively to seek renewed and to have an eye for the interpretation form men outside the church. All must want to learn to come forward for our belief to become so an animated and recruiting community. In which we want to be careful as a community, self concerned round destitute people, nearby or far away, and prepared to stand up to them and to help them.

As believers who want to go together on the way it is important that we want to share the Good News with each other and want to show others that we make all part of it. That means that we want to know each other, not only recognize. Hereby is it necessarily that we work at our self, to form a right character and to get the right attitude. So we do also have to work on our respect for the whole belief community, show respect for other opinions and show that we want to listen to each other. Through showing to others that our brotherly love is not feigned but from sincere concern or sympathy, can we them brotherly take up in our community that we want to put open as a spot of reflection were men can discover who they truly are and what God of them asks.

It comes there on to build at a feeling of unity. Let us hope that everybody that holds a warm heart to the belief shall be able to work together. Each can and should contribute a stone, and that can be on all sorts of manners. They that can find no time to invest actively can perhaps feel happier by contributing financially. And how one turns it, we cannot do it in this society without pennies. Money is now a time a necessary wrong.

One of the problems which the municipality encounters is her invisibility. For many is the church no interesting and contemporary conversation partner. If the community want to do her missionary task, it must seek to start this conversation herself. Not only through getting her own activities better be known by these groups, but also through associating with other activities of the municipality or village. To operate well in the field, equipment is necessary: the municipality must well keep for eyes that the conversation with men, of little Christian belief, begins with a reflection on what belief itself has to offer in their life.

Men see today the church more as a provider of services than as a community of which one shares and take part of. Though it is important that we convince that giving love to one another and realizing that we all want to belong to Jesus is our main focus to the way to god and His coming Kingdom. We should try to get everybody involved to become devoted to one another in brotherly love, to edify each other and to build one another. (Romans 14:19; 15:2) Now the time has come to make every effort to be at one and at peace with one another (Ephesians 4:3; Colossians 3:14, 15). Jesus has given us the task to teach one another (Colossians 3:16) and to admonish one another with wisdom (Colossians 3:16). In such a meeting when we take time to study the Word of God we can do that. It is also an excellent occasion to do the same things as the first Christians did at their study and gathering together moments. Singing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God one with another brings life in the house and let each other feel that they can be united. (Colossians 3:16)

The municipality shall have to receive the outsiders with hospitability without to disavow the own character of belief community. We must therefore examine in which extent we can accommodate. Being aware that identity gives security we should try to cloth our community with a clear identity. Every ecclesia has the freedom to choose its own form or identity, but it has to keep to the Biblical teachings in all ways. We cannot avoid that men in this post-modern time is more directed on relations. Churches have to form a community. The dividing of the meal is just as important as the listening to a sermon. But for us Christadelphians the Word of God is the most important and the Word part or reading of chapters from the Bible should take the most time of the service and be the central focus. All the texts in the meeting can be centred on the Bible chapters that are read for that day.
Men of this time have difficulties to be quite or to listen for a long time. Therefore it is most advised that each member of the community also is actively involved with the service, a.o. by reading each some verses from the daily reading. They are no longer been directed on the listening to a long sermon through one person, but the reader of the exhortation could try to have it enlivened with examples and changes in his voice. It can also help that when an exhortation from somebody is taken that all the members read successively. Men can sometimes learn more in a service through to participating more active and more creative.

To Plan for and to realize an ecclesia in a village or town a good communication is necessary between all the concerned, and for the belief community it is best as the entire community would become involved by all the projects. Together we must make it happen. There may not be ‘solo-tripping’, collaboration in teamwork and close cooperation can give possibilities to reach the goal.

Working together

Concerning the expense plate it should come to it that everybody can have a ready view on the worldly worries of an organization. Everybody should have a good eye for the worldly obligations to organize a church community. All have to look at the accompanying obligations in the right perspective. Tasks can be divided and those that are skilfully in a certain task can take that up. Every member can offer his professional guidance.
There is so much to do in an ecclesia. One can contribute to furnish it; taking care of the flowers, hall decoration, keeping clean the common meeting rooms, foreseen of the delicacies for after the service, etc . It are all, even sometimes likely small tasks which would become too much for one person to do, that must be done in the community, and where one mainly must count on voluntary co-workers.
Any occupation practice, that can be subservient for the church community can be shared with that ecclesia. Expenses can be saved in that way, through putting yourself to disposition for the community. So it will be ideal when someone that has a large space where he or she can receive men would put this to disposition for the expansion of the belief by giving it to be used by the believers on particular days to have their Bible study or to hold a house church service.

In particular churches there one counts on it that the members of the church community from their own conviction voluntarily give up a tenth (tithe) of their wage or earnings at the church community, as contribution to the expenses of the church community so that the costs of the congregation can be covered. By some churches, this (tithing) is seen even as something obviously and then we no longer can speak of a voluntary contribution but of a tax collection on the income. This collection or ‘Tenth’ becomes then used to pay the priests, pastors, ministers or preachers and to support the religious establishment. But we should persons, coming to our services and asking for our services, let them know that we receive freely from our God and that we also should give freely. Nobody in our Christadelphian community is paid like in the institutional churches. Because we are doing the work for our Lord we may not obligate people to give a financial contribution. But because we cannot do without the money to cover the costs we can leave the free choice to people to give some financial support as they wish.
For us the mostly suitable form for financial contribution is a collecting-box or basket behind or on an inconspicuous spot were anybody that wishes, can discreetly give a voluntary financial present. Or to make it possible to the members to present a gift by money transfer or by direct debit.

Only also through gifts within the church community, the ecclesia or parish can on her turn then again contribute to the commune, the town or environment. Churches have shown a long tradition in showing them in the middle-class commune. In the Anglo-Saxon countries we can find the custom that churches offer (offered) all sorts of people’s activities through the year. In our regions we do not have such a tradition, except when you take into account the renting out by the Catholic church of the parish house where then all sorts of eat festivities and other affairs are offered and local people meet.
But there have always been churches who try to be to the disposition for the needy and try to offer help where it can. For that lasting presence, also called ecclesiastic presence, according to some men professionals are ‘indispensable’. For them it is too much asked of the volunteers to have to do all that work in the districts alone. And actually is that well so, only one person cannot do this all, but in mutual cooperation of the church members that will well possible to have a roll of duties. Together all members can, under a particular leadership, spend attention at the problems in districts. Any respecting ecclesia should try to do the full task Jesus has given us. Helping others outside the believers group is also one and the role that the belief municipalities can play to improvement of those problems of its surroundings is an important contribution it has to play.

Were former parishioners quite narrow concerned on the ecclesiastic life, now it has become difficult to be find volunteers. Many people can find no time to invest with activities in the church community. For them, the financial contribution appears the easiest manner to support the church community.

When you are interested however in belief, you cannot escape to fix your relation unto the developments in the church community. Everybody on this earth must come till self research. Asking yourself: in what do I (want to) belief, what do I want to do with my belief, for what do I need the church community and which contribution can I furnish that church community? Because belief and church are not obviously anymore, it is also difficult to receive answers to these questions. We as Christadelphians should try to reach out our hand and be prepared to try to give sufficient answers and to give people a place where they can come together and feel at peace.

God needs men. He needed Jesus of Nazareth. But also does He need us to give ourselves to the world, giving the love hands and feet. In our actions should it be able that God’s Light can break through has been expected. This besides is what is expected of Jesus his supporters, that they spread and carry out the gospel further but also that indispensable love. Each other giving life… that can we! That we do by walking away from our own world and by giving each other attention, to take each other serious and listening to them, to their stories, their requirements. By letting each other feel our commitment: I am sympathetic towards you.

By coming together on several places every believer can carry out his or her belief and be support and crutch for others. The social contact that can be given in that community of that belief group then becomes of very large interest, a contribution not to be neglected.

For small belief communities, especially those who are not under institutional churches, it is more difficult to stay upright, to remain and to be able to cover the expenses. Because they already have lesser means to live on they are limited by what they can do. The mutual solidarity between men in the small belief community can certainly remain – how small in number the community also is, if this is been built on true belief. It there then becomes important for those small groups that they can remain enthusiast and that they remain searching to forms which suits their making church together.

As local believers we only can hope that by more men more understanding will come that the different part activities to service stand for the structure of one community and her mission. That more people would become more concerned and actively involved by the structure and the maintenance of the church community and may realize that a ‘large’ number of small branches are necessarily to bring everything to fulfilment. Everybody in the beliefs community must be self conscious that the church community must fulfil a positive striking and at the same time recognizable role in the towns community and that activities and projects of the church community can give a larger acquaintance at the belief community through which on her turn the community also again will be able to grow and so on her turn will get a good return.

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